Dawg, another option; scratch out your possible around the walls layout on paper with dimensions ( depth etc). Consider hiring a local carpenter to build the bench work for you certainly le$$ costly then manufactured bench work.
Oman posted:I used this one. http://www.modelrailroadbenchwork.com/
I am very happy with it. What I was drawn to, were the curved corners. For those that may be looking closely, there was another support leg added to the middle of each 45 degree curved corner after this picture was taken.
Keith that looks really nice.
Chuck
Seacoast posted:Dawg, another option; scratch out your possible around the walls layout on paper with dimensions ( depth etc). Consider hiring a local carpenter to build the bench work for you certainly le$$ costly then manufactured bench work.
You know that's not a bad idea. The guy building my second story in The Barn is a really good craftsman with a couple of great workers with him.
I second the modelroadbenchwork suggestion. It is true custom finished construction. No premium priced angular kits. Just fine craftsmanship ready to fit any space configuration. They can maximize aisle space and efficiently utilize inside and outside corners with benchwork edges of any curvature to properly accommodate your right a way.
I have been close to many efforts in the benchwork industry and modelrailroadbenchwork is the absolute best, period. Plus their prices are very, very reasonable.
Discernment trumps popularity.
Be cautious of general carpenters. Their skill discipline is somewhat different from the sensitive needs for the flat and stable requirements of RR benchwork. Carpenters that I have used are actually cabinet makers.
Trust me, big difference. tt
I'm a fan of wood over MFD use. Pine lumber is great wood too if cured right. My somewhat northern house and the very northern cabin haven't warped
Most home improvement stock just isn't given that kind of time and care anymore is all.
In the spirit of market choice & competition, Sievers bench work is an older name, similar, & all wood, if the bit of extra money won't kill ya.They were a little higher in price about 10-15 years ago.
Shipping distance could help balance any price gaps, or denote a clear choice too.
Tom Tee posted:Discernment trumps popularity.
Be cautious of general carpenters. Their skill discipline is somewhat different from the sensitive needs for the flat and stable requirements of RR benchwork. Carpenters that I have used are actually cabinet makers.
Trust me, big difference. tt
I agree. A good cabinet maker is likely going to use a better cured timber supply too!
Ahhh good advice on the bench work.
Let me look closer at modelrailroadbenchwork.com
Hi Chuck,
Congratulations on that space, it looks great! In my opinion, you have the best feel for the people that will view/operate the layout. Use that information with the available space to determine benchwork height. Also consider the fact that as you age, you might view the layout from a tall stool. As a less expensive alternative, I made my own L-girder benchwork from 3/4" birch plywood. The decking is also 3/4" birch plywood. It went together fast, is lightweight, and strong enough to hold me (I'm 6'3" and not small). My lower level benchwork is at about 44", and is fine when standing or sitting on a stool. The upper level is about nine inches higher. My layout is two levels because of the staging under my yard. You can check out my benchwork here: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...ad-oyster-bay-branch
Best of luck, and I'm looking forward to your progress.
Andy
I have Mianne benchwork and think it's great. I would highly recommend it. They also just became an OGR forum sponsor. Their standard height is 40", but they will customize it to just about anything you want. I think their standard height is a good balance between top height and under layout access. It is very easy to assemble and goes together very quickly. It also includes all the hardware you will need and each lag has it's own leveling foot. No trips to the hardware store and no mess. The only thing you will have to add is the plywood top which I had Home Depot cut to size for me.
On my benchwork they added extra holes on the legs for shelving so I could add more cross braces under the layout to support shelves for storage, which I added after getting it all setup. They will also help you with the design to fit your space. The only thing to watch out for is their measurements are to the center of the legs and not the outer perimeter of the benchwork. I believe they have a video about that on their website. Mine is only 6' x16' to start, but an addition is in the planning and will be easy to add. The Mianne is also easily re-configured if you change you mind about something. They can help with that as well. The 6'x16' benchwork took me about 8 hours or so to complete. That included a trip to Home Depot for the plywood and having them cut it to size so I could handle it. Mianne is definitely worth checking into.
I also use Mianne - initially for a 3RS layout, then converted to P:48. It saves a great deal of time and lessens the mess during the initial building stage and it 's very easy to reconfigure should you want to change the layout later. If I were to start again from scratch, I would fix and hang it from the walls to eliminate the legs below. Although there is a great deal of storage available as a result of the legs, I don't like seeing all that "stuff" accumulating under the layout
Rail Dawg posted:I see a 19 x 23 ft is $1749
Rough guess maybe I would use 3 of those in various configurations?
http://www.miannebenchwork.com/super_kits.htm
Again a very rough guess.
I didn't do anything really custom with mine other than the extra lower shelves (it was basically just a standard 6'x16' kit), but there is a chance that Mianne could custom configure something for you to fit your specific plan and area and it might be a bit less than the price of three of the kits? They will work with you on the design and could possibly configure it using fewer pieces than the kits? They use good quality materials and that should be considered in any cost comparisons. The wood is all poplar except for the panels in the cross pieces and all hardware is included as well.
I would guess you could have all the Mianne setup and top installed in somewhere around 3-5 days. Once you read the instructions and get the hang of assembly it goes together pretty quickly. They give you color coded drawings and lots of details on assembly, that is really nice too. So besides Mianne being very nice looking, I think the big savings for you would be in time and being able to run trains a lot faster and that is worth something too. (You probably can't tell from all my rambling here, but I am really happy with mine... 
)
I ran the numbers for Mianne versus doing it myself RIGHT for a simple 30"x12' switching layout. Mianne is more economical when you factor in the time, labor and material costs, plus the structural design of Mianne appears more stable. All I have to worry about is the decks and that so simple a middle manager could do it.
I don't want to start a debate between Mianne and http://www.modelrailroadbenchwork.com/ , but for the OP, RAIL DAWG, I suggest that he look at what he needs. IMO, there are more customizable configurations with Model Railroad Bench Work.
I do have to add one thing. I like woodworking, so to build and assemble the benchwork was fun.
Andy
One of the distinctives. At York, Mianne was telling us that they do not advocate open grid construction. Their construction style which consists of a thin hardwood frame around a Masonite type of panel w/IKEA style fasteners does not take well to side mounted riser loads. They told us that they advocate using 1/2" Home Depot plywood sheathing over the entire surface and use blocks as risers to raise the subroadbed for topographical features.
For deep topographical features they advocate dropping a section below the main decking for tall subroadbed support blocks rising up from the lower 1/2" plywood decking.
This can be very handy for folks with sectional track layouts who change up their track plan occasionally.
One of the best Mianne deals is to get to York early and purchase their display benchwork at a discounted price. Pick up after the show.
Their automatic lift out is a neat feature.
Two years ago, I worked and thought of a modular benchwork; it seemed to me that five pieces allow to do (almost!) any shape of layouts.
Here is the result:
The square one is 1 x 1 meter; next is the half in length, then the half in diagonal, and the two triangles (left and right) are the half of ...the half in length. Hypothenuses of the triangles are never in contact with other faces.
You can after add pieces of wood for elevated tracks and so one...
And here is an example of one of the benchworks you can do with:
Sure, it's made for those who like to build and assemble...! as STEAMFAN77 says.
Hope that helps
jpv in France
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Images (2)
Now that is elegant, JP.
Thanks, Max!
Just to help and gave ideas for RAIL DAWG.
jpv
Dawg,
Here are some You Tube videos of the late Ed Reutling's layout. Take note he is running Remote Control Battery power. Also, check out the width of his layout and how he achieves the feeling of grade change with his scenery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KQ3SQvTTKc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1q15hKDQKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0svycHvn0_k
Andy Romano's O scale "Ironbound RR" RC Battery power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ujyK666K6c
There are a ton of videos on RC Battery power on You Tube.
Simon
It's amazing the options we have available to us that weren't there even 15 years ago.
Getting the room done and ready for benchwork will be a big step. I'll post pics of that progress.
Right now I'm slowly gathering track, turnouts and pouring hydrocal rocks 8 at a time.
Good fun!
I am not a lover of batteries in things that don't really need them. Too many surprise dead ones over the years have kept me from work and play both. RC electric wasn't my thing long, just because of the battery PITA. I want to like it for being a simple system overall, but I don't really.
A plug-n-play in battery type (like a cordless drill), and a bank of identical extra batteries for me, would be a must to even consider it. (I keep 3 batteries min. for cordless tools as is)
With modern materials that 2r track it made from now, the quality of the wheels, etc. I don't see conductivity issues on track as big an issue as it once was.
I can see the RC controls versatility being great to use, It really shines in G scale with the track being exposed to the elements. But it really isn't easier, or cheaper in any way, to run batteries. (unless you live without "the grid" or have conductivity issues). Reversing loop wiring is even on modular boards now. Bus wiring and modern command means only 2-3 bus wires really. It needs #1 a common, and #2 a "hot wire" of variable or constant voltage. #3 (only "if" you run a variable) would be a constant hot wire, at ? volts, for turnout power. #4+ wires? Maybe 5v-12v for some lights, but voltage regulators could do that at each accessory instead, so 3 wires, and a command system if you want convention operation too. Then (if you must), voltage/command modules in/near/under any accessories. Seems simple enough, and track power will be cheaper and easier in the long run, even if you still use an RC remote to control it, which you can still do, and cheaper with bus wires too.
The idea of running one loco on batteries, would be great on any layout. As a heavy MOW loco a self powered loco would be nice for occasionally pulling on a distant derailment, and getting it to within my reach again 
.
Rail Dawg posted:Right now I'm slowly gathering track, turnouts and pouring hydrocal rocks 8 at a time.
Good fun!
Were you a Scout too? 
(Always Be Prepared )
Oman posted:Rail Dawg posted:Anyone here use the Mianne pre-fabbed benchwork?
I used this one. http://www.modelrailroadbenchwork.com/
I am very happy with it. What I was drawn to, were the curved corners. For those that may be looking closely, there was another support leg added to the middle of each 45 degree curved corner after this picture was taken.
Your benchwork looks great oman! I'm very glad you are happy with your purchase. I remember building this order and thinking it was an interesting layout shape. Have you gotten any track/trains on this yet?
Ondrew
Before you commit to a track plan I would suggest that you read John Armstrong's book "track planning for realistic operation". this book show you how to design a model railroad based on actual railroad practices.
It may also save you from making some bad mistakes.
modelrailroadbenchwork posted:Oman posted:Rail Dawg posted:Anyone here use the Mianne pre-fabbed benchwork?
I used this one. http://www.modelrailroadbenchwork.com/
I am very happy with it. What I was drawn to, were the curved corners. For those that may be looking closely, there was another support leg added to the middle of each 45 degree curved corner after this picture was taken.
Your benchwork looks great oman! I'm very glad you are happy with your purchase. I remember building this order and thinking it was an interesting layout shape. Have you gotten any track/trains on this yet?
Ondrew
Ondrew thanks for being on this thread. I have received a lot of positive feedback on your work.
Please stick with this thread. I think when the time comes I'll ask you to help with the benchwork.
Thanks!
Chuck
David Eisinger posted:Before you commit to a track plan I would suggest that you read John Armstrong's book "track planning for realistic operation". this book show you how to design a model railroad based on actual railroad practices.
It may also save you from making some bad mistakes.
Absolutely David. Have a copy right here in front of me!
Thanks for the good advice.
Chuck
modelrailroadbenchwork posted:Oman posted:Rail Dawg posted:Anyone here use the Mianne pre-fabbed benchwork?
I used this one. http://www.modelrailroadbenchwork.com/
I am very happy with it. What I was drawn to, were the curved corners. For those that may be looking closely, there was another support leg added to the middle of each 45 degree curved corner after this picture was taken.
Your benchwork looks great oman! I'm very glad you are happy with your purchase. I remember building this order and thinking it was an interesting layout shape. Have you gotten any track/trains on this yet?
Ondrew
I still have my temporary layout of Real Trax on the bench, but I have an all new plan using Atlas O track.
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Oman posted:modelrailroadbenchwork posted:Oman posted:Rail Dawg posted:Anyone here use the Mianne pre-fabbed benchwork?
I used this one. http://www.modelrailroadbenchwork.com/
I am very happy with it. What I was drawn to, were the curved corners. For those that may be looking closely, there was another support leg added to the middle of each 45 degree curved corner after this picture was taken.
Your benchwork looks great oman! I'm very glad you are happy with your purchase. I remember building this order and thinking it was an interesting layout shape. Have you gotten any track/trains on this yet?
Ondrew
I still have my temporary layout of Real Trax on the bench, but I have an all new plan using Atlas O track.
Looks Nice. It's not over loaded with track which is really a good thing. It should be quite fun to operate and leave plenty of room for scenery.
I'm still around getting together the initial 5k needed to get the second floor installed in the barn.
This will all be done with cash... no credit.
Am accumulating Atlas Flex track and turnouts along with various electrical components.
Long-term project of course. Will be exciting to get floor in so there is a "canvas" to work on.
Chuck
I certainly understand it takes a while to get the space ready, both in time and cash! Looking forward to seeing you start when the time comes!!
Dear Sir,
Having built a few layouts.. to the one I now have in my own barn.. I would consider these valuable lessons.
-No duck unders.. Having those suck. Especially for those with back, leg, hip issues.. if you feel you need a duck under.. then built the walkway area with a lift out bridge or something similar. because ducking under sucks!
-reach.. only make the benchwork as far as you can reach.. if it's outta reach, that is where your issues will be. If you can get to the tables from both sides, then your reach to center from each side is your width.
-height.. I would have made mine Chest height.. It isn't.. and I contemplate raising the layout every day.
-electrical... do that before scenery.. at least the bus wires.. get them run under the layout.
-height of scenery works better to the eye then depth of scenery..
-make all benchwork modular. So if you don't like something or want a change, taking out the old and inserting a new piece is easier... Plus you can work on the new piece while the old one is still in place and you can still run trains.
-For O-Scale, use 3/4" plywood sub road bed.. For the areas where sometimes where risers get a little wide, the plywood being a little thicker, won't sag. because 1/2" will. Don't use flake board.. that stuff sucks for model RR. If you get flake board and use water against it for scenery, the flake board seems to expand and never contract.
-Wide isles.. A must, you can do it with the room you have.. 30x50.. Trust me, it is worth the effort to have these.. I have two spots where the isles gets close, but they ope right up to wide ares.. I also didn't make those areas points of interests.. make your points of interests where the isles are wide. so people can gather easier without hitting benchwork..
-If your thinking of having a turn table.. One where the tracks are coming out all around it, that becomes an area of interest and people gather around it.. I did mine where the mainline went behind the house and people can see into the roundhouse.. and also get right up to the table to see the loco's turn.. This turntable idea came to me this past spring and I changed the whole yard and turn table area into another part of the layout in another area of the room to accommodate this. It works out great now..
-Also, with your yard, well, before i forget, have a staging yard.. one hidden under mountains or there of.. then your yard itself won't be cramped with cars as mine was till I did this.. (I am also ridding cars of later dates because my model RR is set around 1977. So this purge is setting up nicely as I now have room for the cars that fit the timeline.) Also, keep switches within easy arm length.. repair is easer etc.. I did redesign the yard as stated above, and am going to again because of the railcar purge etc.. Plus, the yard is smaller and more manageable. well, the whole layout is..
Also, keep this in mind when you design.. 1) model the places as scenes you love as a kid, adult.. just don't put track down for the sake of putting track down.. you will get bored with it. I learned this on the first layout here in the barn.. I thought I had all the room and when the layout was up.. it sucked.. so a friend came over and told me it sucked and gave me this advice.. number 1 again, model scene you love, figure out the top five scenes you love and design them into the layout, then the next five and so one. you find that the layout fills out nicely and you will want to work on it all the time.. Mine is (3) years old now and it is awesome to me! I;m not biased or anything! HA! But I can't wait to work on it when i have the time.. Or add to it or whatever.. I am always designing for the better.. I love running it, showing it, etc.. with these changes too, I have to write into this mag to show my updates as the model RR was published in O-Gauge at about two year ago..
Anyhow, designing and building is fun! Good luck! I hope this points help?
Dan
dan@m4cg.com if you need or have any other questions..
Dan, Very good advice to us all. Thank you, sir....
Jesse TCA
BXCXDan posted:Dear Sir,
Having built a few layouts.. to the one I now have in my own barn.. I would consider these valuable lessons.
-No duck unders.. Having those suck. Especially for those with back, leg, hip issues.. if you feel you need a duck under.. then built the walkway area with a lift out bridge or something similar. because ducking under sucks!
-reach.. only make the benchwork as far as you can reach.. if it's outta reach, that is where your issues will be. If you can get to the tables from both sides, then your reach to center from each side is your width.
-height.. I would have made mine Chest height.. It isn't.. and I contemplate raising the layout every day.
-electrical... do that before scenery.. at least the bus wires.. get them run under the layout.
-height of scenery works better to the eye then depth of scenery..
-make all benchwork modular. So if you don't like something or want a change, taking out the old and inserting a new piece is easier... Plus you can work on the new piece while the old one is still in place and you can still run trains.
-For O-Scale, use 3/4" plywood sub road bed.. For the areas where sometimes where risers get a little wide, the plywood being a little thicker, won't sag. because 1/2" will. Don't use flake board.. that stuff sucks for model RR. If you get flake board and use water against it for scenery, the flake board seems to expand and never contract.
-Wide isles.. A must, you can do it with the room you have.. 30x50.. Trust me, it is worth the effort to have these.. I have two spots where the isles gets close, but they ope right up to wide ares.. I also didn't make those areas points of interests.. make your points of interests where the isles are wide. so people can gather easier without hitting benchwork..
-If your thinking of having a turn table.. One where the tracks are coming out all around it, that becomes an area of interest and people gather around it.. I did mine where the mainline went behind the house and people can see into the roundhouse.. and also get right up to the table to see the loco's turn.. This turntable idea came to me this past spring and I changed the whole yard and turn table area into another part of the layout in another area of the room to accommodate this. It works out great now..
-Also, with your yard, well, before i forget, have a staging yard.. one hidden under mountains or there of.. then your yard itself won't be cramped with cars as mine was till I did this.. (I am also ridding cars of later dates because my model RR is set around 1977. So this purge is setting up nicely as I now have room for the cars that fit the timeline.) Also, keep switches within easy arm length.. repair is easer etc.. I did redesign the yard as stated above, and am going to again because of the railcar purge etc.. Plus, the yard is smaller and more manageable. well, the whole layout is..
Also, keep this in mind when you design.. 1) model the places as scenes you love as a kid, adult.. just don't put track down for the sake of putting track down.. you will get bored with it. I learned this on the first layout here in the barn.. I thought I had all the room and when the layout was up.. it sucked.. so a friend came over and told me it sucked and gave me this advice.. number 1 again, model scene you love, figure out the top five scenes you love and design them into the layout, then the next five and so one. you find that the layout fills out nicely and you will want to work on it all the time.. Mine is (3) years old now and it is awesome to me! I;m not biased or anything! HA! But I can't wait to work on it when i have the time.. Or add to it or whatever.. I am always designing for the better.. I love running it, showing it, etc.. with these changes too, I have to write into this mag to show my updates as the model RR was published in O-Gauge at about two year ago..
Anyhow, designing and building is fun! Good luck! I hope this points help?
Dan
dan@m4cg.com if you need or have any other questions..
This has to be one of the most accurate and useful posts that I have seen in my 15 years on this forum. Thank you Dan.
Thanks Gents.. Hope this helps.. ? If it does, then great! I hope some people can learn from my mistakes as to what is good and what isn't.. And yeah, the changes hurt, but in the end, it is better..
Keep on it!!!!!
Dan
Thanks Jonathan and Jesse for the kind remarks.. Take care! Happy Saturday! Great Railroading!!
Dan
David Eisinger posted:Before you commit to a track plan I would suggest that you read John Armstrong's book "track planning for realistic operation". this book show you how to design a model railroad based on actual railroad practices.
It may also save you from making some bad mistakes.
A bump for this, after hearing all of Dan's great suggestions. Building a railroad based upon personal memories sure is fun and challenging.
After choosing the venue and infrastructure the next most important area for building a railroad is one whose operation will keep you happy year after year.
A spaghetti bowl of tracks and "things" often leads to boredom. Building a railroad that is not only fun to watch run but fun to operate is priceless.
Everything a real railroad does is for a reason, from where the tracks are to what the makeup of each and every train consist is.
Replicating that operation in miniature can be lots and lots of fun.
BXCXDan posted:Thanks Gents.. Hope this helps.. ? If it does, then great! I hope some people can learn from my mistakes as to what is good and what isn't.. And yeah, the changes hurt, but in the end, it is better..
Keep on it!!!!!
Dan
Dan, great times tested ideas. What issue of OGR was your layout in? I would like to read about it. Thanks.
Thanks for posting. I've really enjoyed reading.
BXCXDan posted:Dear Sir,
Having built a few layouts.. to the one I now have in my own barn.. I would consider these valuable lessons.
-No duck unders.. Having those suck. Especially for those with back, leg, hip issues.. if you feel you need a duck under.. then built the walkway area with a lift out bridge or something similar. because ducking under sucks!
-reach.. only make the benchwork as far as you can reach.. if it's outta reach, that is where your issues will be. If you can get to the tables from both sides, then your reach to center from each side is your width.
-height.. I would have made mine Chest height.. It isn't.. and I contemplate raising the layout every day.
-electrical... do that before scenery.. at least the bus wires.. get them run under the layout.
-height of scenery works better to the eye then depth of scenery..
-make all benchwork modular. So if you don't like something or want a change, taking out the old and inserting a new piece is easier... Plus you can work on the new piece while the old one is still in place and you can still run trains.
-For O-Scale, use 3/4" plywood sub road bed.. For the areas where sometimes where risers get a little wide, the plywood being a little thicker, won't sag. because 1/2" will. Don't use flake board.. that stuff sucks for model RR. If you get flake board and use water against it for scenery, the flake board seems to expand and never contract.
-Wide isles.. A must, you can do it with the room you have.. 30x50.. Trust me, it is worth the effort to have these.. I have two spots where the isles gets close, but they ope right up to wide ares.. I also didn't make those areas points of interests.. make your points of interests where the isles are wide. so people can gather easier without hitting benchwork..
-If your thinking of having a turn table.. One where the tracks are coming out all around it, that becomes an area of interest and people gather around it.. I did mine where the mainline went behind the house and people can see into the roundhouse.. and also get right up to the table to see the loco's turn.. This turntable idea came to me this past spring and I changed the whole yard and turn table area into another part of the layout in another area of the room to accommodate this. It works out great now..
-Also, with your yard, well, before i forget, have a staging yard.. one hidden under mountains or there of.. then your yard itself won't be cramped with cars as mine was till I did this.. (I am also ridding cars of later dates because my model RR is set around 1977. So this purge is setting up nicely as I now have room for the cars that fit the timeline.) Also, keep switches within easy arm length.. repair is easer etc.. I did redesign the yard as stated above, and am going to again because of the railcar purge etc.. Plus, the yard is smaller and more manageable. well, the whole layout is..
Also, keep this in mind when you design.. 1) model the places as scenes you love as a kid, adult.. just don't put track down for the sake of putting track down.. you will get bored with it. I learned this on the first layout here in the barn.. I thought I had all the room and when the layout was up.. it sucked.. so a friend came over and told me it sucked and gave me this advice.. number 1 again, model scene you love, figure out the top five scenes you love and design them into the layout, then the next five and so one. you find that the layout fills out nicely and you will want to work on it all the time.. Mine is (3) years old now and it is awesome to me! I;m not biased or anything! HA! But I can't wait to work on it when i have the time.. Or add to it or whatever.. I am always designing for the better.. I love running it, showing it, etc.. with these changes too, I have to write into this mag to show my updates as the model RR was published in O-Gauge at about two year ago..
Anyhow, designing and building is fun! Good luck! I hope this points help?
Dan
dan@m4cg.com if you need or have any other questions..
Dan that is a gold mine of great information!!
Thanks!
Chuck
Mark Boyce posted:I certainly understand it takes a while to get the space ready, both in time and cash! Looking forward to seeing you start when the time comes!!
Thanks Mark.
This looks to be a $100k kind of project.
That's a lot of money. But it's trains...
