The Color of Water

Those look fantastic.  Nice work

I think your aquatic endeavors are outstanding and another Arnold classic topic.  You must stay up late to formulate new ones.

I don't have backdrops.  They are simply stucco walls that are painted the same as the bead board skirting on the layout.  Sort of like an off white picture frame.

I have three water features using different methods thought of at the time.  Two in blue another in brown mud puddle.

Fendermain

Fendermain, the topics mysteriously pop into my head. Your water looks great. I especially like your water under the red bridge. I have the same red bridge, which I think is Lionel pre-war. It appears on each side of my Erector Set bridge given to me by Leroof:

Arnold

Arnold, it all depends on the time of day, weather and water conditions. Right now we are expecting thirty foot breakers where we live on the West side, so the water will be brown. I will stay out of the water today. In other words there are many different colors for water. LOL, if you have whales in the water who knows. Don 

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Fendermain, the topics mysteriously pop into my head. Your water looks great. I especially like your water under the red bridge. I have the same red bridge, which I think is Lionel pre-war. It appears on each side of my Erector Set bridge given to me by Leroof:

Arnold

 

 

Yes.  I believe they are prewar.  My favorite bridge  although I wish I had room for a Hellgate.

Fendermain

My water feature rarely sees any overflow from the dam behind it or actual precipitation in the dry climate. This leaves the water in the cove usually muddy looking from the silt bottom.  Certainly not very attractive for bathers or boaters!

But the fisherman like it to hook one of the big "bottom feeders".

Donald

Hi Arnold, When I have modeled water, places I have visited around Cortland, New York have been my references...

I enjoy modeling shallower streams, and even standing-water

... more than large, deep expanses. Here are some of the results...

Like you, I have painted the board with darker colors to model deeper areas, but I have also used some of the dyes available with some of the kits (purchased from Scenic Express) to assist in saying depth, as well as movement/swirling of the water over shallower bed areas.

FrankM

Color is hard, but Mod Podge is easy. I agree with you that it is the best choice for most water applications. Cheap and easy, too.

I often use it to paint waves on the top surface of a sheet of pane glass--painting the color on the bottom. IMO it works as well as the old "shower glass" technique, but with more variability in the wave patterns.

The water and riverbank scenery on my 10'-by-5' layout is modeled after train rides along the Naugatuck River in Connecticut on Metro-North Railroad. This river is very shallow in most places and the brown riverbed is visible. I made the river bottom using several shades of brown paint, several sizes and colors of ballast and talus, some real dirt, flooded with diluted yellow glue. When dry, I carefully poured a thin layer of Envirotex on top of the prepared surface. No tint to the water. Some Modge-Podge might improve the look but I'd rather leave well-enough alone...

MELGAR

MELGAR posted:

The water and riverbank scenery on my 10'-by-5' layout is modeled after train rides along the Naugatuck River in Connecticut on Metro-North Railroad. This river is very shallow in most places and the brown riverbed is visible. I made the river bottom using several shades of brown paint, several sizes and colors of ballast and talus, some real dirt, flooded with diluted yellow glue. When dry, I carefully poured a thin layer of Envirotex on top of the prepared surface. No tint to the water. Some Modge-Podge might improve the look but I'd rather leave well-enough alone...

MELGAR

 

Very nice work as always.  It is interesting that both you and FrankM, being advanced modelers, utilize photos for hydro inspiration.

Fendermain

scale rail posted:

Arnold, it all depends on the time of day, weather and water conditions. Right now we are expecting thirty foot breakers where we live on the West side, so the water will be brown. I will stay out of the water today. In other words there are many different colors for water. LOL, if you have whales in the water who knows. Don 

That's not fair Don...... making me jealous......

Another great thread idea Arnold. My layout is flat on plywood so no water features here. The next layout will have some for sure.

I must add that since you are modeling the PUT...shouldn't all of your water look like the mud in the Harlem River?

Bob

Obviously...

Sorry, Arnold... couldn’t resist!!! But seriously, basically water is clear (unless it is from the Gowanus Canal in Brooklyn), so really, the question should be “what is the color of the bed under your water”!!!

Oh my gosh, MELGAR, every thing you showed us in those photos, above, looks great!

FrankM

Apples55 posted:

Obviously...

Sorry, Arnold... couldn’t resist!!! But seriously, basically water is clear (unless it is from the Gowanus Canal in Brooklyn), so really, the question should be “what is the color of the bed under your water”!!!

I wish our lake and river water looked like that.  Donald's water is closer to what we have and I may try to copy it.

RSJB18 posted:

Another great thread idea Arnold. My layout is flat on plywood so no water features here. The next layout will have some for sure.

I must add that since you are modeling the PUT...shouldn't all of your water look like the mud in the Harlem River?

Bob

Good point, Bob.

Moonson posted:

Hi Arnold, When I have modeled water, places I have visited around Cortland, New York have been my references...

I enjoy modeling shallower streams, and even standing-water

... more than large, deep expanses. Here are some of the results...

Like you, I have painted the board with darker colors to model deeper areas, but I have also used some of the dyes available with some of the kits (purchased from Scenic Express) to assist in saying depth, as well as movement/swirling of the water over shallower bed areas.

FrankM

Awesome as usual, Frank, and thanks for sharing your modeling knowledge. Arnold

scale rail posted:

Arnold, it all depends on the time of day, weather and water conditions. Right now we are expecting thirty foot breakers where we live on the West side, so the water will be brown. I will stay out of the water today. In other words there are many different colors for water. LOL, if you have whales in the water who knows. Don 

Where you live, Don, probably has the most beautiful water in the world. It certainly appears that way in your YouTube scuba diving videos. Arnold 

By the way, since my original post earlier today, I changed the color of the water 3 times! One reason is that there can be a big difference before and after the paint dries; the other reason is I've become very particular about the color.

I will take another stab at this tomorrow, and then get back to you all. Arnold 

Here on the East the water always has more green than anything else. But, your water looks beautiful regardless of the color. 

• I am changing my river colors from blue to green or muddy Grey with some blue in it. River colors are very hard to reproduce but are one of the most noticed scenes on your layout.

For the time being I settled on using more gray than any other color for shallow water: blue gray in the middle and green gray on the edges. The green gray on edges is very subtle:

For deep water, mostly blue with some gray in middle, and I added some green to that blue gray combination on edges :

I can see myself periodically re-painting this water for the rest of my life. LOL. I enjoy doing the painting. Arnold

One more thing: Glossy Mod Podge is a pleasure to work with. IMO, Mod Podge or similar product that gives the glistening water effect is critical to making it look like water. I used 2 thick coats of Mod Podge so far. Arnold

I am resurrecting this topic because I'm in the process of massively modeling water, particularly adding a large river, to my layout.

Over the past several months, I added a peninsula and a bascule bridge, shown in the photos below, which were the subject of another topic.

During the last 2 days, I took steps to make a removable river using 2 inch green foam board and L shaped braces screwed into the plywood boards to hold the foam in place in the aisle and gap between the back of the peninsula and main portion of the layout behind the peninsula where the bascule bridge is.

I'm also in the middle of using the process on YouTube called  Marklin of Sweden Toilet Paper Plus Glue equals Realistic Ocean Water. Today I laid the 3 layers of toilet paper and glue water mix, which, IMO, is an ingenious way to make ripples and waves. It is drying this evening, and tomorrow I will paint it with acrylic paints.

For me, the most fun part of a project like this is the painting. It usually takes me 3 or 4 stabs at the painting to get the colors to my satisfaction.

As Marklin of Sweden says in the YouTube video, after the painting is done, one must be patient and let it dry for 72 hours. Then, the layers of high gloss clear coat are applied, plus another layer of white glue to add depth, and then more layers of clear coat.

I have opted to use glossy Mod Podge for the clear coat.

I will post photos periodically.

If I get to the painting tomorrow, I will post photos of it.

It's been fun throwing myself into an all engrossing project like this. Arnold

Water is the part of model railroading that I have had problems with. looking  forward to seeing  your photos

River with shallow water:

River with deeper water:

The ripples were made using layers of toilet paper and Elmer's glue mixed with a little water, following the YouTube Marklin of Sweden Toilet Paper + Glue = Realistic Ocean Water method.

Paint is acrylic, I opted for brown on edges, green for shallow water, green gray for deeper water, and blue green and gray for the middle where the water is deepest.

There are numerous options that can work well for the color(s) of the water.

Now, I will wait at least 72 hours to let the paint completely dry before I apply the layers of clear coat as recommended in the YouTube video. I will use glossy Mod Podge for my clear coat. Once I do that, I will post more photos.

Arnold

Acrylic painting is done, and have started applying multiple coats of glossy Mod Podge to get the glistening effect.

Mod Podge is non-toxic and pleasant to work with. My wife said that it smells like a florist shop.

Will post photos later.

After acrylic paint and 2 coats of Glossy Mod Podge:

After 3 coats of Glossy Mod Podge:

I believe the white streaks will go away once the Mod Podge completely dries because it's supposed to dry clear.

A River Runs Through It!

If you happen to have a river, show it to us here.

Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

A River Runs Through It!

If you happen to have a river, show it to us here.

Arnold

I am laughing, and thinking that the capt'n of that tug is still going to have a slight problem!

Your right, Dave. That's Lionel's fault, not mine. LOL.

I will figure out a way to hide or disguise the black bars crossing the river.

I'd be curious to see how he brought that barge around the corner!  LOL

Arnold- I installed my bascule bridge without those braces. It works perfectly. Here is a pic of my canal, paint with rippled glass on top. JohnA

@c.sam posted:

I'd be curious to see how he brought that barge around the corner!  LOL

By having a terrific captain on that tugboat!

Believe it or not, one of my 3 roommates during my 2nd year of law school (we rented a house in Albany, NY) was very good with tools. His name was Dave Williams originally from Rochester, NY.

After we graduated, Dave worked in the fields of customs and admiralty law, and he and his wife lived on a house boat.

After practicing law for 30 years, Dave retired from law practice.

Guess what he did next.

He became a tugboat operator!

I've lost touch with Dave, but I wish I could connect with him and show him my Lionel tugboat, barge and the river on my layout.

Arnold

@John A posted:

Arnold- I installed my bascule bridge without those braces. It works perfectly. Here is a pic of my canal, paint with rippled glass on top. JohnA

Thanks, John, for sharing that.

I'm first going to try and hide the braces, maybe covering them with crumpled brown paper painted blue.

Spuyten Duyvil (Spirit of the Devil):

Beware: many have drowned here in the turbulent water.

LOL, Arnold

That scene is great! As I mentioned before, don’t be afraid to remove the black “cross river” arms on the bascule bridge! Will work fine, and look much better!!! JohnA

Actually you can remove that frame altogether if your bridge and track are anchored.  The purpose of the frame was to keep the track aligned when you set it up, particularly if it was on a floor or under your Christmas tree.