The "Future" of our hobby

Back in the '80's when I was in my early 20's I was deeply into HO scale railroading. I would go to local shows and swap meets and was amazed back then how the hobby seemed to be filled with a bunch of old guys. It seemed back then like the hobby was on the way out. Now I'm getting to be one of those "old guys" at the train shows. Even though I've moved from HO to O (can't see those little critters so well these days) it seems like the hobby is still perking along.Perhaps the way in which we do our layouts will change. Perhaps the way we run our trains will change too. If economics don't change we may all be thankfull for an old table with a loop or two of track. Who knows?

One thing I'm confident of is that the 50-60 year old Lionel and Marx trains like I have today will still be operable in 20 years. And will still be making little kids smile as they clickity-clack around their little oval of track and into the hearts of the next generation of train nuts.

This hobby has undoubtedly evolved into one primarily made up of middle aged and elderly people. We are the baby boomers that grew up with trains. There are few young people coming into the hobby. Having said that, there are a few possibilities for the future.

1. As they grow older and into middle age, perhaps our children will embrace the hobby. Some will carry the torch as they inherit large train collections.

2. Perhaps a renaissance of the hobby will occur and a new generation of hobbyists will emerge who will become interested in trains as a classic art form.

3. History repeats itself and who knows what will come for model trains.

I believe that there is a future for this hobby but as to what it will be in 25 years is anyone's guess.

Trains are well represented in the Steampunk Empire:

http://www.thesteampunkempire....roup/search?q=trains

 

Railfans & Hobbyists of all scales building Steampunk themed trains & layouts.

Let's hope that the mainstream hobbyists won't discriminate against them

because of their peculiar dress, speech, manners  & drinking of tea....

 

 

Dave

 

 

Well if one claims everyday that the sky is falling or the earth is going to end, I suppose that someday they may be right.  Heck, even a broken clock is right twice a day.  The only time this hobby looked bleak in my lifetime was the 1970's.  Go back and look at what was available compared to today and you will very much appreciate what we have now.  If ever there was a time to feel the end was near it was then.  This is the golden age of O scale.  Relish in our time and keep the faith.  You can't do anything to change the past but you can affect the future.  Share what you know, teach what you learned. This hobby is doing just fine. Now the economy...well that's a whole different story.  The fact that we collectively still manage to support our hobby during some of the worst economics of the last 30 years gives me hope that this hobby will grow whenever we exit from this madness.    BigRail

So very, very true!  

Michael R. good observations. Two reasons I stayed in most of my life is no kids and MTH. In the 70's when I had my first large layout I was getting very tired of the same old Lionel equipment. New road names yes but not much more. A few years later along came MTH and they breathed new life in the hobby. More O gauge companies joined in the fun and we had more than we could buy. I don't know what the future will hold but I can't worry about it. I'm building a railroad. Don

I'm 37 and am used to being thought of as "the tag along son" and the youngest guy in the club. I love the hobby and even sat on the board of the All Gauge Toy Train Association (AGTTA) in San Diego be for I moved back East.

I have probably more trains than I need but you know the story. I think that in the next 20 or so years there will be a huge glut of used toy trains as people and thier families try to liquidate. I think it's unavoidable that this drive down used prices and may drive out more manufacturers. If noting else Postwar costs will drop because younger people have no ties to the era.Because fewer jobs let people stay in one location building a layout or collection gets very hard. Most of my own collection is in storage because of my "temporary"job move.

Oh s far as Steampunk. A fun novel about Trains in the genre is Railsea by China Mieville. It's set in a world covered in rails where trains are rum with crews like ships and the world resembles a Spaghetti bowl layout.

My feeling is that Steampunk is about making or modifying things yourself. Individuality or some kind of decorated uniqueness is the goal. A Genral or Bachmann 4-6-0 would be fine to start from.

At least in the Dayton area, it's a case of the glass is half full rather than half empty.  Over the last three to four years, I've noticed more and more young families (grade school kids; parents in their late 20s/early thirties) at the train shows.  They are part of the next generation of model railroaders.  Some were buying HO, but many were buying new and used O-gauge items. 

 

Going one step further, I've noticed many more African-American families and dealers in attendance over the last four years as well as some Muslim families in the last couple of years.  I take those developments as further indications of the hobby's next generation being more diverse than in the past.  (Interestingly, when I suggested to two national toy train groups several years ago that they should conduct an outreach to these two communities, neither bothered to respond.)

 

While I haven't encountered too many model railroaders in their 20s, I work with two guys in their late 20s/early 30s who spend their Saturdays working at a local tourist railroad.  One guy was in my office a couple of months ago telling me excitedly about his weekend of practical training as a conductor.  I've also encountered more than a few young adult railfans in different locations in OH and IL.

 

 

Hi Lee, Maybe I am the exception but I never had a toy train as a kid. Could not afford them in a large family. A couple of years ago I started to take my son to Charles Ro. Mainly to let him get a new wooden Thomas the Train engine or maybe a discounted die cast truck or car. We looked at the trains, mainly gawking at the highly detailed G scale. Sure enough,that year he asked Santa for a Polar Express starter set. Went to a Train show and now two years and about $25k and I am thoroughly invested in this hobby ( both time and money). And I am not only running but getting immersed in modeling, kit bashing, weathering, layout design, electrical and electronics. And in the process, what I call "accumulating", a hodge podge lower tier of the collecting aspect of the hobby. And I have learned a lot on this forum and also by trial and error. I think that this hobby appeals to a lot of diverse types from the creative artists to the technology leaning engineers. I have been equally awed and inspired by both on this forum. I doubt worrying about it will make a difference either way. Just diminishes the enjoyment of it now.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I (think) my thoughts can be justified when pretty much everyone I have seen at both train shows & my local hobby shop are usually at least 20 years older than I.

 

You should have seen the warm reception my pretty Japanese sister-in-law received at the Dupage show. Pretty funny actually.

 

I am happy to see families at the Illinois Railway Museum events though.

 

I look forward to doing a lot more in this hobby either way. Don has set a high "benchmark" with his MR layout to aspire to!

 

Regards,

 

Ron W.

Rocks and putty I'm into. The mud wrestling is my wife's thing.

 

I agree with this.  Between highschool and now I was more interested in girls and cars (still interested in both, but in moderation.)   I'm 34 and I only started to get back into trains in the last year (after a bad breakup, actually.)  During and after college I just didn't have time or money for trains.  I don't really have a lot of either now, but I needed a creative outlet, and model railroading is a great one.  It mixes my joy of building things with the mental exercise of doing research and my love of history.

I believe the main concern as to the longevity of not only train related hobbies but all hobbies in general is a collapse of our fragile and vulnerable economy.  We are living in a new age of economic security or lack of the term.  External and internal controls over our economy leaves a question mark as to what will happen day to day. 

 

We used to have security in career's and look forward in staying with employer until retirement.....not today.  Americans are lucky today just to have a job.  We have seen what can happen to our economy and how it can effect each and every one of us....even our hobbies.  We are joyous when the price of gas goes down a dime.  We are being taxed to death and giving away our tax money to those who don't even want to work or contribute to our economy.  At some point something has to break and break big time.....our economy.  That will be the downfall of our hobby not lack of people wanting trains.

 

TEX

Steve

We could get some people into the hobby because of people getting tired of video stuff.  Or parents who want their children to have "real toys": that the children have to figure out what to do with them. 

 

Has anybody seen the prices of gaming equipment lately?

SteamPunk... Not sure if I am ready for trains that look like that ....

 

 

Just glue some gears on it and call it steampunk...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA

 

Rusty

The 8:05 to Gotham City.

That's so cool. I want one.  

 

Think of the speed it will go at with those 150" drivers! (Guestimation based upon the height of the little man in front.) 

Yeah but I'm not sure I have the radius to turn it, let alone the height clearance.

Hate to see the tender for this engine

quote:

Has anybody seen the prices of gaming equipment lately?

 

The Xbox one is going to cost $500, games seem to be about $60 each.

I guess that makes trains look more affordable.

Steve I hope everyone takes the time to read your reply.  Maybe some folks will get their heads out of the sand and come back to reality.  Your analysis is dead on.  Thanks. 

 

Dead-on Mary?  How can you say that when the US is one of the lowest-tax rate countries in the word, whether you consider top-tier earners or the bottom (poor people don't pay any federal income tax in this country).

 

Everyone can afford more consumer items than when I was a kid growing up in the  80's.  Trains are definitely more affordable than they used to be (well, the cheap stuff anyways - maybe not the $800 Lionel vision diesels, etc)

Overall I agree, but take issue with this specific comment:

 

"We are being taxed to death and giving away our tax money to those who don't even want to work or contribute to our economy."

 

While I won't argue that we (assuming we is the average working-class citizen) are being taxed to death, the notion that giving away our tax money to those who don't even want to work or contribute to our economy being a huge factor is being overly simplistic.   Yes, there are what could be considered true "welfare bums" that do nothing to improve themselves but that's a minority.  There is also what's known as the "working poor" who are those that have a job, some even have multiple jobs, but their overall income still keeps them at the poverty level.  They actually make up a much larger part of the people that rely on employment insurance or food stamps.  Many of them also are in transient positions such as temporary medical conditions that can prevent them from actively working or are in the position of actually trying to turn their fortunes around.

 

Let's also not forget that "corporate welfare" also exists to the more affluent.  Government handouts in the form of subsidies like paying farmers for NOT growing consumables off a percentage of their land, "crony capitalism" practices in the form of grants & tax breaks of high profile financial institutions and businesses, not to even mention the 2008 bailouts of financial institutions and certain corporations due in no small part to their own internal mismanagement (Wells Fargo, CitiGroup, GM and Chrysler anyone?)  Yes, some have paid back what was given, but many did not.

 

Apart from that, I do overall agree with you, particularly with the uncertainability of job security and solid careers with our current global economy.

IMHO,  I suspect we all know darn well that the future of our hobby is uncertain, at best. It will likely never see the huge number of post-WWll "War'Babies" and "Baby-Booomers," (collectively, the largest generation alive on Earth, I've heard) who grew up with such a huge familiarity with and interest in real-life and toy/model trains, repeated. That is not going to happen again; at least, not in our lifetime. The demographics are not present for such a surge to be repeated.

FrankM .

Our hobby is the National Hockey League and video games are the NFL. We are a niche that is rooted in past traditions and memories while XBox adjusts to modern trends and demands

If we want our hobby to flourish in its niche, since its foolish to think it will ever be mainstream again, we need to attract outsiders. The Polar Express brought more people into this hobby than every effort in the last 40 years combined, and its things like that which pay the bills at Lionel so they can offer Vision Line Hudsons, too.

Without the broad appeal of simpler (and more affordable) toy trains, there really aren't enough of us to keep the hobby going a generation from now, and Lionel and MTH will become more and more like 3rd Rail and offer extremely expensive, short run productions.

The more we share our trains with others (as it appears a great number of Forum members do) the longer our hobby will stay relevant and fun

The O'gauge hobby is 100+ yrs old; there is no reason to believe that it will not be around 100 yrs hence. The business side of the O gauge hobby is overdue yet another contraction, and together with some changes in some of the current business models would probably be a positive for the hobby.

 

A more interesting speculative question might be "What be the future of O'gauge forums?" I submit that there are no obvious answers to that one and that question would certainly be worth a separate thread.

I would venture the opinion that as long as they serve a purpose and are interesting, they will exist.

That is, of course, 100% correct.  The key is the combination of population AND the familiarity of that once expanded population base with railroading (via everyday exposure to it) and toys and models of the equipment so commonly seen.  It's a combination that came together at just the right time and in the right circumstances, and it's a combination is no longer present or even possible.

All this activity in response to a hypothetical question about whether our hobby will last. My grandsons are only 3 and 4, but they are packing information away about my hobby every time they visit. I have noticed though that younger people are more interested in diesels than steam because that is what they see. I grew up in the fifties when I could go and watch a northern steam engine from about fifteen feet off the side of the track, pull over a hundred cars so slag up the hill leading out of Hamilton, then a steel town. The ground literally shook! That awesome power always was a icon to match things up to. So later in life I tried to build a little museum with a representative of every steam class.  In the olden days we wished we could make more detailed trains but now the detail surpasses even a good craftsman's efforts. Our hobby won't die as long as you can stand back and watch it move.

I didn't see no slow down in interest. Blissfield railroad days was one day three years ago now its' two days and will be larger next spring. I believe the official tickets purchased was over two thousand  You didn't have to buy a ticket but it's worth it. Not enough parking in this town. Over three hundred people toured my basement railroad and I live out of town. In town over a thousand people toured the homes and railroad club even more. Had a train flea market here that weekend also, they will be moving to a bigger building. And this on York weekend. Seemed like everyone had a child in tow I have teenage neighbor help this year and he wants to do it again.

Now I have to find that coal mine for this years expansion. 

Happy railroading everyone

Clem 

Hey, who knows? Perhaps the new Lone ranger movie will spark a new interest in model trains! 

 

 

I could get into the steampunk thing....

 

My crystal ball is broken.

 

The former demographics, about children being interested in trains, representing the future, does not apply. Trains went from playthings to adult collectibles and activities. So, the issue is what will future adults be interested in? Nobody really knows.

 

It would help over-all if there was more interaction by the public with prototype trains, such as being stopped at a RR crossing or observing peddler freights. Modern economics, however, has changed much of what we remember from years ago. 

 

So, the best we can do is hope the public continues to catch on, over time. But its tough, because many believe you have to have a lot of disposable income or they count the number of pieces in a starter set and divide that by the price to comparison shop. The more pieces and the less price=the correct purchase. So, a cheap HO set will win out over a higher quality starter set. Sometimes these cheap sets destroy new enthusiasm when they fall apart a few days after the purchase. Then there was a dealer in FL, which I went to visit the day after Christmas to make a purchase, only to find it closed until about a week or two after the holidays, leaving (for me) the impression they only wanted to sell trains, take the money, and flee from the public, when the inevitable calls come in from neophytes with basic questions about setting up the trains. I understand this concept as a business man. But, new found enthusiasm can be squashed.

 

So, the answer is to educate the public, sell a decent product, offer service, and get the very concept of railroading out to a fractured, segmented market.

 

 

 

 

 

Yah, now you're talking, Bubba. Now rack 'em up, gimme another Pabst, and where them keys to my trailer at? 

 

 

Personally, the future looks pretty bright to me; at least here in the UK. I've also recently run an article on a visit to a UK business which makes the steel rails for track of various gauges and various makes around the world, and they seem to have no shortage of orders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXpEx6Bgh94

Agreeing with a post above, my four grandchildren prefer diesels - no interest in steam at all, which is all right.  But I have mostly the E and F unit style, which they've never seen in real life.  Kinda strange.  I don't really think it's the diesels' colors, as I have some colorful steamers too.

 

This is always what I tell my friends when they harass me about the cost of my trains. Many of my friends have the new Xbox, and a new PS3. Then they have tons of games. I spend about the same for trains, but if I try to sell them in 5 years, I am certain I will be able to get more for them than they will for their old video games, not that I will though, because I will still be enjoying them.

In Memorial City Mall in Houston, there is an American Star doll store.  Seen the store.  On weekends, and days in the summer, when school is out, the store is PACKED!

 

I don't know what their marketing stratagy is, but it is working!  And those dolls and the stuff that goes with them are not cheep!  Base doll is $110!

 

Explain that in this electronic age.

 

 

<<<I don't know what their marketing stratagy is, but it is working!  And those dolls and the stuff that goes with them are not cheep!  Base doll is $110!

 

Explain that in this electronic age.>>>

 

And what's pretty blatant--'American' Girl--it's all made in China.  My wife has a couple, as do our Granddaughters.  The designers do a good job on them.  They have appeal.

 

I can't say anything (negative) to the buyers.  Kinda remids me of my Lionels.