I don't have any Williams Steam Engines and only one diesel. I was going to shop for one of the Crown Edition steamers at York and was wondering what to look for, or what to avoid. I have 054 and 042 curves and run conventional. Thanks in advance.
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I have the J-11 and love it. Any of the Brass engines by Williams have been good over the years (Hudson and Cab Forward years ago, wish had kept them), durable, PULLER and look good.
I have the Niagara and the Southern Pacific Daylight. Both are good runners and pullers. I run them in conventional. I do not think they were go through your curves. Although not 100% sure but I think in the brass line there were a few dogs. I think they were the smaller brass engines.............Paul
Test run it and make sure the reverse board is still functioning. Same for the smoke, although they have a seuthe unit that is not real good. They run good and quite. I have two K4's and an L1 and I love them. They are a really good deal on the second hand market if the price is right.
Check the K4 at speed before you buy it. One of the club members had one and it vibrated so loudly it could be heard over all the other noises on the club layouts.
Usually the flywheel. Pull that, and dead-smooth.
I have converted PRR turbine, 2-rail N&W "J", and a fleet of B6sbs. All are superb for the initial cost. I traded a "Gem" even for the last Williams B6.
Most are smooth out of the box. The "J" had a badly out of balance flywheel.
What Bob said. Some had flywheels that were out of balance, in some cases because they used single set screw. All of these used a fairly high-rpm motor combined with a low gear ratio (the best part!) However any vibration is amplified by the brass shell. There's a reason they don't make band instruments out of die-cast metal!
If you remove the flywheel the loco will still run (assuming the motor can be connected directly to the gearbox.) But it won't coast. The loco will stop on a proverbial dime, and if you mishandle the throttle it might result in a derailment, or even damage to the loco itself! Instead, you could try installing something called Dynaxorb inside the shell. I did this to one of mine and it quieted it right down.
Factory rubber tires will probably be rotten at this point, so you'll have to figure out which MTH locos had similar-sized drivers, and get new tires from MTH. Detail on all of these was sparse, and realism is further reduced by shiny handrails, driver tires, etc. Paint and weathering greatly improves the appearance, as would Precision Scale detail parts. None of them had factory sound or command control. Adding it will require insulating the tender shell from its frame, because radio signals won't penetrate the brass bodies.
Finally, the very earliest Williams locos (pre-1987) weren't especially well-made. They turned the 3-rail brass business over to Weaver in 1990 just as they were getting good at it. Definitely a bargain at current prices, but it will need some mechanical, cosmetic, and electronic upgrades to equal the best of today.
"Finally, the very earliest Williams locos (pre-1987) weren't especially well-made." Correct, and they had to be from a different builder (these early locos are not without charm and can be made to be worth owning - if you keep the total cost way down).
Anyway, it should be mentioned that the Crown Edition brass was made by Samhongsa (Weaver's was too), a well-established Korean brass builder that produced good products. They also built quite a few higher-end 2-rail O-scale locos. They were in the die-cast business as well, and produced items for MTH and Lionel (by way of MTH) back in the earlier scale days. Lionel's die-cast scale L-3 Mohawk and Reading T-1 4-8-4 were Samhongsa products produced for Lionel by way of MTH as the "middle man" (Mr Wolf already had the Korean contacts; Lionel did not).
Or so I understand.
The "good" Williams brass is my favorite line of locos; I wish that there had been even more prototypes offered. They were built to a price (basic but good detailing; no Pittman motors), and really made 3RO worth messing with. My Wms brass USRA Mike with ERR Cruise Commander is a smooth and silent runner, Legacy-slow if you want.
The even later "Masterpiece" Williams brass is another story - they can be even better bargains - good stuff.
Williams Trains has had many identities, many iterations. Unfortunately, Mr Williams was known for caring nothing about archiving or the history of his enterprise. Too bad. It's the most interesting modern O-scale outfit.
The early Hudson's were not the best, the black Hudson ran ok but the SL Hudson was noisy and a bad runner and just never looked right.
Just don't overpay for any of the early steam engines or the later ones for that matter.
Dave
I think I'm up to nine of these now and I find them to be hit or miss. Overall, they are a great value for the product, but some run better than others. As many have said the earlier ones were not as consistent. My best runners are any of the 4-8-4's, the Challenger, and the Mikado. My Camelback has an issue with the tender trucks side frames spreading apart far enough that the wheel's fall off. My K4s (pre-war version) has the front pony truck riding high as does the T-1.
I still wouldn't hesitate to pick one up if the price was right, the condition was good, and if finances permitted.
I have a scale brass camelback by Williams. It has bronze gearing and runs like a clock. This is a Williams before Bachman. It was manufactured by Samhongsa. ( sp? ) Of course like most Williams steamers, its not much on smoke. I do like his engine a lot!
If you ever want to know history about Williams Electric Trains, Frank Vacek knows lots. He worked for Jerry Williams for many years. Frank played a large part in the design of the scale Williams Hudson. OGR might want to interview Frank. It would make for a good read!
I used to have a Williams brass Crown Edition PRR Atlantic (4-4-2). It ran like a top and was good looking. It would probably get around your sharp curves. I sold it because I didn't want to take the time to put Lionel command control in it. Other projects were more pressing.
I also have a Williams Crown Edition brass SP GS-4 that I did convert to Lionel command control. It is an outstanding engine but it does require at least O-72.
NH
D500 posted:...(snip).......
The "good" Williams brass is my favorite line of locos; I wish that there had been even more prototypes offered. They were built to a price (basic but good detailing; no Pittman motors), and really made 3RO worth messing with. My Wms brass USRA Mike with ERR Cruise Commander is a smooth and silent runner, Legacy-slow if you want.
...(snip)...
Was there something wrong with Pittman motors? I had always been led to believe they were very desirable, particularly if they were equipped with ball bearings...
Bill in FtL
I have the Williams brass Atlantic . It runs fine on 042 track. It is a good runner with nice detail. It has a seuthe smoke unit that is weak by todays standards. The Pacific and Camelback also part of their Crown series should run on 054. The Niagara and Daylight locomotives do require 072 track. These engines can usually be found relatively reasonable on the used market. I am not sure if these smaller engines were made in Williams later Masterpiece series.
I recently acquired 2 PRR K4s' which are 2 rail versions. A previous owner had added DCC to one engine, along with better separate details more closely exacting a late K4s. After removing a seized, fan driven smoke unit ( also owner upgrade ) the loco runs super smoothly. Having no on/off switch for smoke the guy I bought it from complained the loco set up an awful electrical draw. Yeah, no kidding! It will eventually end up being modified for 3 rail but for now remains a shelf dweller.
The other K is unmolested and a curious mix of period incorrectness. Late pilot with a striped tender over a completely black paint job. There are definitely better representations of K's these days but for under $250 for a good running pair, these are just fine, thank you.
Bruce
They are super deals, My K4's cost me $75 and $139 and the L1 set me back $175. I was lucky to get the K4's that cheap. They were both ebay buy it now that I saw and pulled the trigger immediately. It is impressive that I got lucky twice though. Both K4's had DOA reverse boards. The L1 is perfect.
The factory finish black K4s. Have yet to even run this one.
Bruce
I have a brass camelback and it is my favorite engine. Runs like a clock and looks great. Would likely buy another.
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