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Hi Tinplate Fans!  Well my post this weekend is a little light, not too much new arrived lately.  However, I am expecting a pre-war American Flyer set to be delivered today and if that comes I will post it tomorrow.  For today, I have Lionel's "0-27" lithographed passenger cars, particularly the observation cars.  First is the "red/brown" livery 1691 complete with fishbelly and nickel journals and handrails on the door.  It was made 1936-39.  The series of cars, with several slight variations of color  ran from 1933-39 .  Next is the unusual find, the 1693 an uncataloged car that represented the last stand of these cars and was 1940 only.  Note it was manufactured without the fishbelly and with no journals (my car has nickel "journals" that were obviously home made and added after purchase) but it has Nickel hand rails by the door.  I chose to leave the home made journals in place as that is the way the car lived its life.  The big difference from the more common 1691 is the color scheme, the 1693 has greenish blue sides with and embossed yellow window frames.  This color scheme is sometimes called "peacock".  While a long way from perfect shape, it is the first opportunity I he had to add a car of this color scheme to my collection.

Well that's all for now, have a happy and healthy weekend everyone

Don

Along those lines, Don, a couple of 1679 box cars, the first being the transition Ives 1679, the second a late Lionel 1679:

Many versions in between and after, including the Lionel 2679 with operating box-couplers.

PD

Great photos pd...I have the "Baby Ruth" car myself, but could never locate the "Ives" transition cars.  Great find!

Don

@Don McErlean GREAT pick up with the “peacock” 1693 Lionel observation. I’m a HUGE fan of the Prewar Lionel 1500, 1600 and 1700 freight series and 1500, 1600, And 1800 passenger series. Whether litho or not, all are awesome. And,!let us not forget, the 610 series Ives passenger cars, while not litho I still Love these. That said, it’s the Ives trains from 1928-1932, although some don’t  consider the post-1930/non-AF involved cars to be Transition era, which I enjoy the most

Regardless, regarding the 1690  passenger cars and 1691 observation-I’ve seen/heard of the maroon with Ives R.R. Lines, Lionel-Ives, and Lionel Lines. Bright red with brown roof Lionel, all bright red Lionel Lines, Yellow Ives R.R. Lines. Then 1691,1692,1693 in blue and maroon and the peacock. Great finds!

Pair of original Blue Comet's exit the lift and bascule bridges leaving Chicago...Too bad they never really made it there!! LMAO

I am a little late this week, had to wait for a parcel delivery .  It contains that nice little storkleg from Carette in O gauge from 1910. O gauge ones seems rarer than gauge one models, I do not know why. Tt is from a "buy it now" on the auction site and was described as a Bing model,  very good deal...  It must have been fired once or twice so condition is nice and my only Carette O gauge gondola now has a loco.

Have a nice weekend,  Daniel

Well my American Flyer "Champion" set came and its really in nice shape.  Not only that but the engine is near perfect and when put on the track under power, it runs "like a Champion"... smooth and with more than enough power to pull this little consist.  The mystery is, what year was this sold or was it even a "set" or is this just a convenient set of cars/loco.  Maybe some of you folks more expert on pre-war flyer can help?  The mystery is that the loco is clearly the American Flyer called Type XIX by Greenberg was first illustrated in the 1933 catalog but as a 2-4-2.  It was offered again in 1934 under the catalog number 612R as a 2-4-0 with the Champion tender.  This loco clearly was never a 2-4-2 as there is no mounting for a rear truck nor is there any evidence that the loco has been altered.  It also has a huge casting from the motor that projects into the space a rear truck would occupy.  Greenberg states that the tender/loco combination was assigned Flyer catalog number 622R which indicates that the loco has a reverse, which it does.  The reference says that this loco was offered in 1934 in a Champion passenger train , labeled No 950-RT but does not give the consist.  Here is the engine and tender, note "Champion" name on the tender.  There is the vestige of a decal reading "American Flyer" under the cab windows.

Now comes the other part of the mystery.  The "set" came with two lithographed "Hummer and Express" type passenger cars with one variation.  These cars, the 518 Club Car and the 519 Passenger Car are one piece like other Hummer / Express cars but as opposed to the more normal Hummer cars which are 5" long, these are larger at 5 7/8" long.  These cars are in rather remarkable shape, no rust or scratched finish, some play wear but otherwise in great shape.  The "problem" to me as a historical researcher is that the Greenberg reference states in the section on such cars that these were produced in 1931-32 too early for the locomotive, YET the reference also says that cars of this type were offered in some sets from 1933-38, so the mystery remains.  Is this a "set" or just a convenient combination of cars of about the same period (does not really matter to me but I love investigating the history of these trains so I would want to know if possible).  Here are the cars.  They are clearly marked over the windows as "American Flyer" and not "Empire Express" or "Hummer" and as stated they are larger than the 513/515 car.  The Club car configuration with the open baggage door seems to also be unique to this pair.  Note they are pictured on top of page 201 in "Greenbergs Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge by Alan R. Schuweiler, 1997  edition"

So I have an engine clearly offered with this type car in Champion sets but does not seem to have been made prior to 1933   (really prior to 1934 as a 2-4-0) seemingly combined with cars that  have been offered in a Champion set but were seemingly made in 1931-32  although some information indicates  they may be part of a set post 1933 !!  So the American Flyer pre-war confusion (to me) continues.  Help from others most appreciated.

Here are some pictures of the entire train:

Not sure I mentioned this but to me the great thing is that the loco is in just super condition, no rust or corrosion, gears are in perfect shape as are the rods and driving wheels, no zinc pest here.  She RUNS smooth and perfectly...so around my layout she goes.  Regardless of the few year discrepancy potential between cars and loco,  this group is around 90 years old and still functioning as when she was built!!  Doing better than me at 76 (LOL)

Best Holiday Wishes everyone

Don

Don,

Per the 1934 American Flyer Dealer's Price List, set 950T is shown with what appears to be that engine and tender, with two 6.5 inch 4 wheel passenger cars and a 6.5 inch 4 wheel observation car.  The cars shown are clearly not the 518 and 519 litho cars that came with your set. 

I do not see any offerings of the 518-519 cars in the dealer's price lists after 1932.  That is not to say that they were not offered in special sets, but I do not have any printed data that shows they were offered after 1932.

NWL

NWL Thank you, the consist of the 950T was the piece of information I was missing.  You are very correct, the cars described do NOT seem like the 518/519 cars that came with my locomotive.  The fact that you can't find 518/519 after '32 also makes sense and matches Greenberg's listing for the manufacturing dates for those cars.  Your information was key, thank you for responding.  I now know that while I don't have an "official" set, I still do have a great mixture of cars and loco that add's to my collection....and runs real good too!!

Don

Oh Dear .... I seem to have done it again ....

Just when I thought I was never likely to ever see another John Van Riemsdyk 4-4-4 loco for sale ... turns out there was another one here in Australia ... from the same estate collection !!!

so ... errrrrr.. seems I have .... errr two? ( this one is still to arrive at Casa Fatmanos )

He is reunited with his BR brother soon!

For those who may not have seen the original posting .. these are "Controlled Clockwork" locomotives with motors invented by JVR that have a controllable governor so you can set the working unwind speed , very high quality mechs and I believe only 600 of the 4-4-4 's were ever built so the above pics represent 0.33% of the total worldwide LOL! ( 2 out of 600)

Couldnt afford it .. couldnt afford to let it go for the opening bid to a stranger lol ... so tried my hand and got it for not much more than opening ... back to tinned beans for a bit ....

With Christmas approaching, now seems like a good time to run some tinplate.  264-E Commodore Vanderbilt with 600 series cars.  Have a wonderful day!   

Don, below is a picture of an AF Champion set I purchased a long time ago.  It's a close approximation to what you have. Unfortunately, there was no set box so about the best that can be said is what NWL has already stated - it might be a special set assembled at a later time.

Wow!! Robert S. Butler...that is just about the same exact set...my Champion tender has the back up light (simulated) but its cover is just a piece of the black sheet metal stamping.  In addition, by loco (at the moment) is a 2-4-0 not a 2-4-2 but that could be just the loss of a rear truck who knows.  There is no doubt however that the cars are the same.  Well, perhaps we have found a "special set" assembled for some retailer.  Well I know this, mine runs around my layout loop with her little 4 wheel cars  clattering like the 1930's so I guess that's enough to make me happy.  Although I admit I am a bit of a toy train "history" nut and very much appreciate your post and it does help to define this "find"

Fatman - you must be the luckiest guy in Australia!  What a fabulous loco and you even likely didn't have to pay the outrageous overseas delivery charges.  Beautiful loco for sure.

Merry Christmas to All!!

Don

Thanks @Don McErlean I am certainly not believing my luck .... that is several decades worth of looking under chickens teeth and rocking horse poo I think I have just used up, just thinking about the odds of finding two such locos 70 years after just 600 were made in the UK ... Anything special I find from here on in is "Bonus" in the fate stakes I reckon .

Merry Christmas to all !

Marklin made an electric motor-driven model of the Scheinenzeppelin in gauge 0 and gauge 1 during the 1930s. According to Wiki only one example of the prototype was ever built. It was superseded by the Flying Hamburger, and finally dismantled in 1939. However, we can still enjoy running the models on our layouts as long as we keep passengers away from the prop.

SUPERB!!! @Jim Kelly-Evans one of my very favourite pieces from pre-war ! Sadly none in my collection ...yet!

I would dearly like to come across a Bing version one day in my hunts ... Your Maerklin is stunning !

Daniel: LOVE that exquisite storkleg! :-)

@Jim Kelly-Evans thank you for sharing that- gosh darn beaut! Love the sound it makes on those tracks! What a layout!

Of all the things that caught my eye, however, the sheep. Are they a Random throw in that just worked with your one gauge and fit well in terms of size and appearance? If not- any info you can provide?  

@StevefromPA posted:

@Jim Kelly-Evans thank you for sharing that- gosh darn beaut! Love the sound it makes on those tracks! What a layout!

Of all the things that caught my eye, however, the sheep. Are they a Random throw in that just worked with your one gauge and fit well in terms of size and appearance? If not- any info you can provide?  

Thanks, Steve, the sheep came with the lovely Maerklin reproduction cattle ramp made by my friend Wolfgang Bauer who lives in Leipzig, Germany. I don't know where he sourced them, unfortunately.

Merry Christmas everyone!

My 1924 Lionel set with the twin motor 402 loco just received new bulbs, it still runs very well on carpet central layout. 072 curves are much better than the original ones.

Daniel

Daniel what a great set.  thanks for the pictures.  Jim Kelley-Evens the pictures of the Scheinenzeppelin are really neat, keeping the passengers out of the prop would be a "customer relations problem" for sure.  You know, the NYC (by my faulty memory) tried something similar in the 1960s, it used an RDC with 2 jet engines mounted high on the rear of the roof.  Not sure what ever became of that thing, but I believe there were some toy models of it.  Hard to remember today.

Don

Can’t even wait till I’m home to post it.I feel my tin has been lacking so I needed to make up for that, of course. Thank you to @rdigilio and @Arne for your input regarding this one

front(or rear)

Rear(or front)

side view with entrance and ticket window

Underneath

This station is either Bub or Carette produced by Bub. Produced from 1902- 1911 or 1913 per this link which is also a good comparison, in addition to Arne’s Bub 1902 catalog picture. https://www.historytoy.com/car...-toy-railway-station

Downs: it is missing the flags(at least it’s missing all of them, keeps it consistent lol), there’s some pieces broken off the structure- and awning and then the top bell on one side. Pros:  the litho is actually in pretty good condition- especially for its age! All the railings and posts are intact, no signs that they have ever cracked or broken off and been reassembled. No warping. Majority of paint seems original- except the roof of the station.

off to my next stop!

Well tinplate fans, I have nothing to compare with Steve from PA's 1902 -1911 station but I am pleased to report some progress in my search to complete a passenger set to go with my Light Olive 252 locomotive.  On Nov 21, I posted that I had at long last acquired two 529 Pullmans from 1927-28 with the light olive basic body color which matches the loco.  I reported at that time that I still had to find the 530 observation but since I had hunted the Pullmans for several years I was not optimistic on finding the observation.  I can now report on (Partial) progress.  I did find a light olive 530 however it has orange trim from 1928-29 instead of the red trim from 1927-28.  Well one can't be too choosy with things that are nearly 94 years old, so here it is.  For some reason, the Lt Olive color scheme (which ran for several years with various trims and journal combo's) seem to be much harder to find than the Orange or Red colors, not sure why.  So my quest is at least partially complete.  I do have the wheels and axles but they are soaking in vinegar to remove surface rust.  It is however missing the blue celluloid "window shade" treatment over the windows.  This is just an add on strip, I bet I can get some repro parts for that.  This car was really in bad (i.e. dirty) shape as was pictured by the seller so it was no surprise and it was quite inexpensive.  The "dirt" turned out to be a fine mist of some dark spray like substance.  My first guess was long exposure to an older oil home heating system.  We had one at my parents home in the 50's and Mom was always complaining about what it did to her wash.  Luckily, it cleaned up rather easily with metal polish and buffing.  The dark coating came off and the olive paint appeared.  Lionel obviously used quality enamel in those days.   This variation as you can see has orange trim and nickel journals.  Underneath it has a type 1 oil label and a square frame, dating it clearly to 1928-29.  The 1927-28 car I was looking for would have had the same oil label but no journals at all and of course the trim would be red (dark red).

Well, happy hunting tinplate fans.  Steve from Pa...marvelous station, what a find.  Thanks for posting pictures.

Don

StevefromPA - nice station...but, to be complete, a station needs arriving and departing trains...here's one ... KBN

@StevefromPA posted:

Can’t even wait till I’m home to post it.I feel my tin has been lacking so I needed to make up for that, of course. Thank you to @rdigilio and @Arne for your input regarding this one

front(or rear)

This station is either Bub or Carette produced by Bub. Produced from 1902- 1911 or 1913 per this link which is also a good comparison, in addition to Arne’s Bub 1902 catalog picture. https://www.historytoy.com/car...-toy-railway-station

Hi Steve,

This has always been one of my favorite tinplate stations. I see it in the Carette catalog, No. 647-32 and the fancier 647-33, and I have seen even larger double facade versions. According to Michael Bowes in his books these stations were made by Issmayer for Bub, Carette and others. Here are some views of my single facade example, which appears to be very similar to your station.

@Robert S. Butler posted:

StevefromPA - nice station...but, to be complete, a station needs arriving and departing trains...here's one ... KBN

Robert,

only the Loco is made by Karl Bub, the coaches are made by Issmayer.

There is a easy way to see the difference, look at the frame.

Issmayer rounded

Bub straight

Here a few examples.

Issmayer

Bub

Arne

Thanks Arne.  I know the various manufacturers made things for one another. This is a boxed set and everything has KBN markings. So it would appear the set is one of those sold under one manufacturer's label but of mixed parentage - correct?

Robert,

yes, many nuremberg manufacturers have sold or swapped models and individual parts to other manufacturers. Sometimes sets were put together by wholesalers themselves.

Arne

Merry Christmas everyone!

JKE: Beautiful station! Daniel: Very nice original set! MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL! :-)

A video from the club last night.

Merry Christmas,

Scott Smith

Hi tinplaters,

I've posted my New Year's card on a couple of O Gauge Forum sites, but wanted to make sure

that my friends of the Tinplate Forum see it. Happy New Year.

Lew Schneider

Merry Christmas guys! 🎄🎅🏻 🎁

Merry Christmas folks...all my best wishes for a happy and healthy 2021 - may the new year be much better than the last!

This fellow came by the L&S today, demanded an engine, said something about...."why mess with 8 Reindeer when I can have 100's of horses !!...Need to make up time this year as all the elves are social distancing!

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Don

Merry Christmas and a New Year full of tinplate trains, Daniel

@Don McErlean posted:

Hi Tinplate Fans!  Well my post this weekend is a little light, not too much new arrived lately.  However, I am expecting a pre-war American Flyer set to be delivered today and if that comes I will post it tomorrow.  For today, I have Lionel's "0-27" lithographed passenger cars, particularly the observation cars.  First is the "red/brown" livery 1691 complete with fishbelly and nickel journals and handrails on the door.  It was made 1936-39.  The series of cars, with several slight variations of color  ran from 1933-39 .  Next is the unusual find, the 1693 an uncataloged car that represented the last stand of these cars and was 1940 only.  Note it was manufactured without the fishbelly and with no journals (my car has nickel "journals" that were obviously home made and added after purchase) but it has Nickel hand rails by the door.  I chose to leave the home made journals in place as that is the way the car lived its life.  The big difference from the more common 1691 is the color scheme, the 1693 has greenish blue sides with and embossed yellow window frames.  This color scheme is sometimes called "peacock".  While a long way from perfect shape, it is the first opportunity I he had to add a car of this color scheme to my collection.

Well that's all for now, have a happy and healthy weekend everyone

Don

What? No Ives yellow?

Jim O’C :  great stuff. Ives made in Irvington, N.J.  Not far from my parents home ‘44-49 in Bloomfield. Got my first Lionel there in ‘47.   Was never able to connect with the Ives versions. Still hunting though!!

Merry Christmas

Don