TMCC/Legacy Track Signal Booster (Dale's Legacy Continues)

Actually, the part is an AD744JN, don't know how I got that number in there, but I'm using the correct part.

Yes, the 24V power is regulated, it's a 1A supply.  The original prototypes had a 700ma supply, but the 1A seemed like a good idea.  I compared it to a 2A supply, and there was no difference in operation between the two driving a 50 ohm load.

John,

It appears as if there is a connection missing from the TMCC Signal Booster schematic. See MissingLine.jpg

The missing line appears in red.

The AD744 according to the datasheet recommends bypass capacitors which do not appear on the schematic.

See NoPowerSupplyBypass.jpg and the recommended bypass schematic from the datasheet AD744PowerSupplyBypass.jpg

Were these left off the schematic?

Actually, the bypass caps weren't on the prototype or my original thru-hole version.   For a large part, we tried to take Dale's basic amplifier circuit and just embellish it with some added features.  Since it worked well, I wasn't going to tinker with what he had working so well.  One issue here with the caps is we have what amounts to a virtual common, not sure what introducing the caps from the power to that floating ground might cause. 

I may skywire them in to one of my prototypes and see what effect they have.

Almost there!  Here's the SMT version on the bench, everything works as expected, just like the thru-hole version.  That's obviously what I was planning, but sometimes things don't go as planned.  I sky-wired the bypass caps onto this one, the "final" artwork has them added.  I discovered that I just overlooked the bypass caps, they actually were on Dale's original prototype.  One of the little problems of not having the full documentation and having to reverse engineer it from prototypes, occasionally things fall through the cracks.   One task is to make one more pass through the prototype to make SURE nothing else was missed, though the buffer seems to function as well, or actually a bit better than the prototype. The astute among you will notice I socketed the AD744 chip, even though I probably didn't need to.  This was to have the assembly house do that it of soldering of the socket to save me from having to do that as well.

I'll be sending the PCB and build info off to the assembly house for a quote on the boards, components, and assembly.  Once that is in hand, we'll kick off the actual order process. I already have prepped a bunch of cases, but I will have to order more, as well as more power bricks.

It's been a long road, but I see the destination in the distance.

After the PCB house gets done and I get the boards back, I have some discrete stuff to still solder on.  The LED's are somewhat tricky as they have to be extended up to protrude from the top of the case, so spacing is critical.  That being the case, I decided to solder a few parts myself after the automated build.  Trying to space the LED's by hand was tedious and difficult, so I created this little fixture to aid in the process, it's used to place the four components indicated.  The pins are alignment pins, they engage the mounting holes to precisely position the board in the fixture.  The extra holes are just to clear the capacitors already on the board.

This is the board in place for the soldering of the four components.  You can also see the two bypass caps I added.  It didn't seem to miss them, but since they're probably a good design practice, why not include them while I can.

I like it!

Looking forward to giving it a whirl on the layout.  

Bruce

John, It looks like your nearly to the finish line, and it looks good. We will definitely enjoy the boost to our layout.

Looks really nice, GRJ, Great work as usual! 

John 

I really appreciate your efforts to make the Booster available to us.  I have one question, once we get the booster installed can you then remove the ground plane wires from above and below the layout?

Thanks,

 Marty

It's likely that the ground plane wires would no longer be needed, but it's impossible to say without simply testing without them.  You can simply disconnect the actual earth ground from them to see if they're still needed, that should be pretty simple.

Being that the Question came up about the ground plane that many of us TMCC/Legacy operators have installed, would it be possible to use Both, the ground plane and your new system? Also, any idea when they will Be Available? Happy Railroading.

I don't see why you couldn't leave the ground plane.

All the folks on the list will be getting email when I get my quotes back for the board build.  I'd estimate a few days before the "official" announcement of actual orders.

leapinlarry posted:

Being that the Question came up about the ground plane that many of us TMCC/Legacy operators have installed, would it be possible to use Both, the ground plane and your new system? Also, any idea when they will Be Available? Happy Railroading.

We at the NJ HiRailers have an extensive network of earth ground wires installed.    Which helped a lot.  We then added Jim LeFevre's analog (tube) "booster", which helped even more.  After Gunrunner built a prototype of his version of Dale's Booster we swapped that in for the tube booster and it improved even some more.

Long story short,  the earth ground enhancements and the booster are a great combination.    If you have earth ground wires installed don't remove them.  Every little bit helps.  

I'll go one step further to say that ground plane wires and the booster are not mutually exclusive. Each addresses the signal issues in a different way.

To really know if your layout requires the booster, you should build a signal strength test car, and measure signal levels around the layout. Technically, you should only employ the booster after you've exhausted the possibilities with ground plane wiring. If you haven't done that, the booster alone may not solve your problems. Further, not all signal problems are the fault of the layout. Some may be caused by factors unique to the locomotives themselves

Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from purchasing one. At worst, it's a $20 donation to the American Cancer Society in Dale's name. At best it might be a magic bullet for you.

I have one of Dale's prototypes on my layout right now, and while signal strength has greatly improved layout wide, I still have problems with some engines, leading me to believe that the trouble can be internal to specific engines, things like antenna placement and length or shielding of a coil on the rail sounds board on earlier TMCC engines.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't see why you couldn't leave the ground plane.

All the folks on the list will be getting email when I get my quotes back for the board build.  I'd estimate a few days before the "official" announcement of actual orders.

Thanks for following thru with this John, looking forward to it.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

One day I'll have to get the NJ-HR to pay for that unit.

One day you might have to remember that we did

Yep, sorry about that Ben, I checked back and there it was.  I knew you were good for it anyway, but it turns out to be my accounting, not your fault.

Folks,

The emails to all the interested parties have gone out, please check your SPAM filter if you haven't received it.  I have already received a couple of bounces, if either of these seem familiar, please contact me with a good email address if you're still interested in the TMCC Buffer.  If I get no response, I'll assume you are no longer interested.

John,

If not too late, please add me to the list for the Track Signal Booster.

Charles Hearn

hearncl@comcast.net

Charles, I sent you the intro email, please read it for further instructions.

*** If you're interested in obtaining one or more of the TMCC Buffers, NOW is the time to act.  In a couple of days, the reservations will be closed and production will proceed with the quantity reserved.  There won't be any second chances at a production box. ***

Another important point.  Your reservation isn't confirmed until you have submitted the initial order deposit.  Just saying you want one isn't sufficient as the parts are quite expensive for the complete build.  I can't front all the parts costs and and then take the risk that a bunch of people changed their minds.

==============================================================================

The PCB layout and documentation for construction of the TMCC Buffer will be available in the future. I'll be posting the PCB files, final schematic, BOM, and of course, the instruction manual.

Note that the cost to assemble a single box or two will likely be significantly more than the production cost.  Buying the parts in single quantities is far more expensive than buying them in quantity.  Also, since this is a surface mount design, the assembly complexity goes way up for hand assembly.  In addition, it's quite possible the specific enclosure that this was designed around will no longer be available.  None of these things makes it an insurmountable task to assemble one, just more difficult and expensive.

Hi John,

I have not received a notice for the deposit,please let me know where to send it.

thanks

Mikey

Due to the numbers, I'm not sending individual notices.  However, I don't see your ZIP in my data base if the one in your profile is accurate.  How did you send it, and under what name?  I also don't see your profile email address in the database. 

My original list of interested parties also doesn't show your profile email, so I doubt I send you a query, at least to that email.

Hi John,

i would like to be added to the list as well.

Carl J

John -

Please sign me up for one of your TMCC boosters and let me know how much and where to mail my deposit.

Thanks much

John.

Please advise  me how to reserve one and how much and where to send the money to you.  

Thank You.

John, I wish to reserve said booster and infor for payment. Thanks N. Meneou

Watch your email, I'll send you the details.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Watch your email, I'll send you the details.

I am searching for the email you sent out for the instructions where to send deposit. I want to get on the reservation list  email is jschim1257@usfamily.net

Billsrr posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Watch your email, I'll send you the details.

I am searching for the email you sent out for the instructions where to send deposit. I want to get on the reservation list  email is jschim1257@usfamily.net

Found the email and forwarded 50 dollars.

john please reserve one for me.tangoman1129@gmail.com thanks herb miller

Try again Herb.

    This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.      

Delivery to the following recipients failed permanently:

   * me.tangoman1129@gmail.com

Reason: There was an error while attempting to deliver your message with [Subject: "TMCC Buffer Preliminary Order Survey and Initial Data"] to me.tangoman1129@gmail.com. MTA p3plsmtpa06-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net received this response from the destination host IP - 209.85.145.27 -  550 , 550-5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist. Please try
550-5.1.1 double-checking the recipient's email address for typos or
550-5.1.1 unnecessary spaces. Learn more at
550 5.1.1  https://support.google.com/mail/?p=NoSuchUser v127-v6si1683386ith.121 - gsmtp

Hi John

I could not find on Hennings what the deposit amount is,where do I send the Deposit for the TMCC Buffer.

Thanks

Mikey

Mikey, please read the email that I sent you, I thought it was pretty clear.  FYI, this is not being done through Henning's, this is just a one-time shot of a build of Dale's design for the TMCC buffer.

John I would like to buy one Of the TMCC signal buffers. How do I do That?

Tom Breslin

oldtom76 posted:

John I would like to buy one Of the TMCC signal buffers. How do I do That?

Tom Breslin

Send an email to my profile address and I'll send you the instructions.

Actually, I already have you in for one, however you didn't make the initial deposit, so you might want to take care of that.

ALERT:  Last change to get in on the build, orders are closed Saturday!

Once orders are closed, we'll submit the final quantity to the assembly house for board fabrication and assembly.  After that, there will be no more assembled units.

An important note:  You don't have a registered order unless you've submitted the initial $50 deposit, that's what I'm using to buy all the parts!  It's not sufficient to be added to the "I want one" list.

ordered and paid

Hey John, I hope I did it right. Sent the payment to your specified email, but the order info went to you at the email from which you sent the instructions. I know you got the payment, did you get my address? Sorry if I messed up your system.

Both you guys are fine, you're all set.

As long as I get the info for shipping and an email address, I'm good.  A phone number is also a nice touch, though I didn't ask for it.

John I never got any paper fro you so I do not know what the deposit was to be. let me know so I can get it to you as quick as I can. The only contact I had with you was to give you my e mail at York. Let me know how much and where to send it. Tom

tombres@tampabay.rr.com Thanks    I just saw that is 50. Where to send it.

Tom, I'll send you the full announcement with all the details.  If you don't get it, check your junk/spam filters.

John Might be to late to get there by Sat. but the money will be sent as soon as I know where to send it. Thanks for your efforts  Tom

We might allow you an extra day or two.   I just have to cut it off sometime or we'll never get them.  Besides, I'm a bit eager to get the order in before any tariffs, that would run up the cost!

John

Just checking to make sure you received the deposit via PayPal.

Yep Patrick, got it.

Thank You John.  Good luck in going forward with the production.  

 Should the date read 8/4/2018?  Just want to prevent confusion.  @gunrunnerjohn

John,

I am interested in purchasing one. Please send an email to ferreby@gmail.com and I will send you the deposit right away.

John Ferreby

MartyE posted:

 Should the date read 8/4/2018?

It should, and now it does.  Thanks for the correction, I need to be more careful.

johnf posted:

I am interested in purchasing one. Please send an email to ferreby@gmail.com and I will send you the deposit right away.

John Ferreby

Done.  I sent you the "welcome" email, all the info is in there.

I'm interested in this. I can't find the price.

Golferdg posted:

I'm interested in this. I can't find the price.

Check your email.

Hi.  I would like to invest in one.  What's the total cost aside from the $50 deposit?

Greg

I have to have an email address, send me an email to my profile address.

Hi, I can not find welcome E- mail with instructions on how to pay deposit.   Thanks, Art.     katy409@yahoo.com

Hi John,

Excuse my ignorance, I am totally electronic deficient. I’ve been following the progress of this thread, but most information discussed here, has gone over my head. I wired my layout as recommended for DCS & later included TMCC/Legacy. I rarely have issues but I experience signal problems in a small yard area as well as a couple of underpasses/tunnel sections, with a few MTH & TMCC engines.  I never run those engines for that reason.

Before I pull the trigger, now that the window of opportunity will be closed soon, would Dale’s Track Signal Booster cure these problems? Is the booster & the buffer the same thing?

I apologize if these questions have been addressed previously, if so please say so & I will run through the tread more thoroughly.

Thanks,

Joe

The booster won't cure any DCS issues, that's a totally different topic.  We're actually discussing some DCS fixes in a thread or two in the MTH sub-forum.

If you only have issues as you describe, chances are that a few earth ground wire additions could be all you need for TMCC/Legacy.  Again, DCS is a whole different topic.

I understand that DCS & TMCC/Legacy are 2 different animals. I did the earth ground wire additions shortly after I purchased my first TMCC engine, with minimal success. Once I installed Legacy & did away with TMCC, the problems became less but did not disappear completely. The same Lionel engines, running next to each other or over & under each other never cleared up. It's been awhile since I first installed TMCC but I believe before & when only running DCS, I had no signal issues.

I just went through the thread again & read the DM TMCC Buffer Documentation.pdf. Based on that PDF, it seems the booster could help with at least my Lionel issues.

So John, based on your experience & knowledge, DCS asside, would the booster clear up my TMCC/Legacy issues?

Thanks again,

Joe

Well, for signal issues with TMCC/Legacy, the buffer is the ticket.  FWIW, the NJ-HR Club, running a 185' x 30' layout couldn't run without one.  There is still some discussion about what effect boosting the TMCC signal might have on DCS, that's being discussed as we speak.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have to have an email address, send me an email to my profile address.

Sorry for being dumb here...how do I find your email?  I didn't see anything on your profile.

Greg

Gregcz1 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have to have an email address, send me an email to my profile address.

Sorry for being dumb here...how do I find your email?  I didn't see anything on your profile.

Greg

7th line down in his profile

Hi John,

Well, I think I'll kick myself if I miss the boat. Do I just PayPal you the $50.00 deposit?

Thanks,

Joe

Gregcz1,  Click on this Gunrunnerjohn scroll down to 'Display Email' and you will find GRJ's email addy

ironman1 posted:

Hi John,

Well, I think I'll kick myself if I miss the boat. Do I just PayPal you the $50.00 deposit?

Thanks,

Joe

Better safe than sorry is what I thought too, so I ordered one as well. 

Put your email in your profile and GRJ will email you, or email him, his email is in his profile. He will send you the info.

Joe, I sent you the intro email.

John: Some time ago I also request  your booster and I send an E-mail, however I did not receive your replay as far as where do I have to send the $50.00 deposit, will you please send me info. about how to send the deposit and excuse my ignorance.

Due to other scheduling conflicts with my PC house, I had to pull the trigger on the order.  As of now, I'm not accepting any new orders as I have 100 in the queue, and that's the number of buffers being produced.

Thanks John for your continuation with this project.  

It's been consuming way more time than I imagined, I thought making little boards was hard!

I think I'm going to move back in to design and let someone else make stuff!

Wish I read the last few replies here and saved the effort to send payment then get a refund.

I waited too long, looks like I missed out. I guess he who snoozes looses. Too bad.

Looks like I'll never know if this device would have solved my TMCC/Legacy woes.

The booster has been actively discussed here for about a year, and John began assembling an e-mail list of interested parties at least 10 months ago (discussed throughout this thread).  You had plenty of opportunity before this.  You didn't snooze, you hibernated!

John

I know you don't know my capabilities, but I'll be happy to help assemble for you. (No charge). Of course we have the shipping costs? I'm sure by now, you're getting overloaded!  Just the order taking was crazy enough!

Let me know if I can help.

Terry

Hibernated, very funny!
Thanks Bob, that makes me feel so much better! Are you a professional comedian?

Guys, I'm not going to leave the remaining folks totally out in the cold.  I still have a quantity of parts for the thru-hole version from when I was going to hand build them.  That was before the quantities skyrocketed out of control and I realized that I could never build that many by hand in any reasonable time!  When I went to surface mount, I had to also start over with most of the components for obvious reasons.

My plan, after I get through this crush of shipping all of these, is to offer a kit of parts, including the PCB and parts.  It will have the same functionality as the assembled version, and obviously will cost less since you get to do a lot of the work.  We'll discuss the exact options once I get done with this run.  One of the issues are whether to offer the enclosure that has been prepped for the board, etc.  I mention this as I already have a drilling technique and the tools to cut the slots.  Since the little boxes are a few bucks, it's best not to have to use three or four getting all the holes and slots in the right place.

I will start a separate thread for the kit version, we can sort out the details of the offering at that time.

That's very nice as an option John.

Thank you,

Joe

John,

Can you confirm my application.  I have not received any mail regarding ordering and do indeed wish to have one.

Bruce

I hate to bother you John, but I would like to know if still  I am in your list or I am out of luck

You folks need to send me an email with the complete detail of the order, especially the name it would be under and the email address you used.  I'm afraid the forum name doesn't do me much good.

I will send you an E-mail right away

GRJ,

I agree with MartyE above, thank you for your perseverance and determination to see this through! I know it's certainly been a lot of work for you to get to this point (and especially with a move in the middle of it all). I'm guessing you must be quite relieved the order was finally placed and the end is possibly in sight. 

Offering the kits after the initial BTO is definitely going above and beyond the call too, IMO! I'm sure many folks will definitely appreciate this very kind offering on your part as well. 

Thanks!!! We do really appreciate all that you do for us around here.

I hate to leave anyone behind, but I do have to somehow tie a bow around some of this and do something else with my days!   I figured the kits will be better than nothing.  I may have to prep the cases to make it less of a PITA to put together, I know I didn't get stuff in the right place the first couple times I made a case.

I have not sent in my deposit yet. I thought I had until tomorrow. Am I still on the list or did I miss out?

Eric, I've sent you a couple of emails as I hadn't heard from you.  You're on the list, but there was no requirement you wait until the last minute.

Just sent the deposit thru PayPal. Sorry about the delay. I guess I just needed the adrenaline rush. Thanks for including me.

John,

I forgot to call you today. Is this a problem? I will gladly PayPal as well. If not, no problem. 

Kevin 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

ALERT:  Last change to get in on the build, orders are closed Saturday!

Once orders are closed, we'll submit the final quantity to the assembly house for board fabrication and assembly.  After that, there will be no more assembled units.

An important note:  You don't have a registered order unless you've submitted the initial $50 deposit, that's what I'm using to buy all the parts!  It's not sufficient to be added to the "I want one" list.

Off topic but just wondering the name if your board and assembly house. I’m thinking of making a simple board for a Ham Radio project just for fun.

Thanks,

Chuck,  I've used two houses, ALLPCB and PCBWAY.  I've gotten quotes that are pretty close from UltimatePCB as well, but I haven't actually used them.  If you want ten fairly small PC boards for cheap, try SEEED Studio, they have a special deal, only for quantity ten.

Here's one that's roughly 3" x 3", total price with shipping is $12.69 for ten pieces.  The downside is it takes about a month to get them, this one came on July 20th.  On the up side, it's a fraction of the price that OSH Park would charge just for three of them, and OSH Park isn't exactly speedy, it takes about 2 weeks typically.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Right now the ballpark price is $140/unit with $20/unit going to the American Cancer Society in Dale's name...

Jeff ordered one for AGHR, but I wanted to tell you that the donation to the American Cancer Society in Dale's name is great. You're a class act, John.

Thank you John. Very helpful info.

AGHRMatt posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Right now the ballpark price is $140/unit with $20/unit going to the American Cancer Society in Dale's name...

Jeff ordered one for AGHR, but I wanted to tell you that the donation to the American Cancer Society in Dale's name is great. You're a class act, John.

Well, ACS should get a nice hit, I have 100 already spoken for, and more people want them.  I'll be working on a smaller run that will be kits and/or hand assembled after this mess is done.

Folks.  For people that are in dire need of one of these, do I have a deal for you.   I have three prototypes that are available for immediate delivery.  These are identical in circuit and function as the upcoming "factory" units.  At this point, I only need one prototype in hand to verify function when I'm working on the large order, so there's no sense sitting on these if someone can use them.  They will include all the same power supply and earth ground tether as the production units, and are in the same form-factor case.

If anyone is experiencing TMCC/Legacy issues now that the buffer should address, now's your chance to pick up one of these immediately.

Interested parties should contact me using my user profile email address.

Hi John, Just sent you an email requesting to purchase one of your kits for this product. I am ordering this for a friend that has many "PITA" issues. I do hope that I am not too late to order one of these kits. Just let me know what the deposit is and I will send it to you.

Thanks for everything you do to improve our hobby.

Roger, I sent you an email.

Hi John,

I have not received a confirmation that I'm on the list for the kit. Please confirm.

Thank you,

Joe

If you sent an email, you're on the list.  I'm not responding individually, it's a lot of work.  There will be a mass mailing to everyone that expressed interest when I'm ready to move on those.

Thank you!

A milestone is reached, we're getting closer.   Just received the boards back from China, and completed the final assembly of a few for some testing.  All the surface mount components are machine placed and soldered at the assembly house, I finish with the thru-hole stuff like LED's, connectors, and the heatsink and buffer.  I also received the additional blank thru-hole boards with the latest layout that will be the basis of the kits to be offered after the first order is shipped.  Again, these will have identical functionality as the original production, the only difference is they use different form-factor parts.  All five boards shown tested OK, a good sign that the rest of the production run is most likely good as well.

Still waiting on a few components and hardware to complete the full order, but the big stuff is already in and I'm starting to put stuff together.

The little board in the foreground is a test board that plugs into the six position connector block for final test.  It allows me easy connection and also puts a load on the buffer to insure it's capable of driving a load.

Looks nice, and moving right along too! Pretty fast considering all you had going on in the middle of and during the whole project. Not to mention the side projects... Maybe you can take a nice long break soon!

Soon I'll have benchwork from Mianne and I'll be busy building my new layout!