I was looking at my MTH model of the UP 9000 and noticed there was not the typical external linkage you see on the boiler going from the cab to the front end throttle.  I then looked at pictures on internet of what real thing, and didn’t see it either.  

In real life how is the front end throttle connected to the cab?

Original Post
Hump Yard Mike posted:

I was looking at my MTH model of the UP 9000 and noticed there was not the typical external linkage you see on the boiler going from the cab to the front end throttle.  I then looked at pictures on internet of what real thing, and didn’t see it either.  

In real life how is the front end throttle connected to the cab?

The linkage must have been removed from the engine in Pomona. Here is one of the 4-12-2s in service, back in the day with it intact. 

UP 9059
UP 9059

Any idea why both MTH and Lionel used squared-off sand domes?

I have heard that Lionel made two versions, and one is several hundred bucks more on the market than the other.

I recommend vol.1 of the Kratville book to make sure you catch all the variations.

The were 88 locomotives spread over 8 orders during the course of 4 years.  It's logical that somewhere during that time the specs were revised to change the throttle.

If I were to hazard to guess, I would say the external throttle linkage began with the 9015 of the 1928 production.

The drawings in the MR Cyclopedia mentioned earlier are of the 9017, which was part of the 1928 production.  9000-9014 were built in 1926.

However, it's obvious the the 9000 never had external throttle linkage.

Rusty

I want flying pumps on all my engines, which makes me a fan of C&O Mikados, and their brow-mounted Elescos and coal-firing Vanderbilts, which these UP's don't have (all oil fired?).  IF l find photos of an 0-4-0, as well as Moguls and Consolidations, or other small engines, with pumps and Elescos (may never have existed!), or been logical, l  will modify my free-lanced road's locos to include those.  One of my earliest childhood railroad photo exposures was to a Kalmbach book picturing Rio Grande's articulateds with "busy" smokeboxes.

??Another one of THOSE!!??  What you want to sell is not what I want to buy!

Flying pumps on 0-4-0's and 2-6-0's?  You must really hate the poor schmuck that has to clean out the smokebox.

You'll probably find some Consolidations with Elesco's, (and those would be most likely Canadian) but I doubt on anything smaller.

An Elesco is also more than just the cylindrical tank on (usually) top the smokebox, there's all the extra plumbing and pump:

Piping3

Rusty

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The UP's three cylinder 4-12-2's were built in five orders, classed UP-1-UP-5, for a total of 88 engines.  Class UP-1 and UP-2 were built with dome throttles, hence no outside linkage. Classes UP-3, UP-4, and UP-5 were built with American Multiple front-end throttles.  The UP-5 class were also built with one piece cast bed frames as well.  Alco built the #9000 with blind drivers on the third and fourth axles.  UP replaced the tires with flanged ones upon delivery.  There were some numbered in the 9300 series for use on the OWN line, but they had severe problems on the curves, and so were reassigned to UP proper and renumbered into a slot in the 9000 series.  OSL also had some assigned as well in the 9500 series.

I have the HO scale MTH model with working Gresley valve gear and center cranked axle and rod.  Mine is numbered 9503 for the OSL.  I added a Cal Scale front end throttle detail set to it to make it more correct.  However, like it's O gauge sister, it has the weird square sand box.  I've given some thought about how to correct it, but for now I'm just leaving it as it is.

Stuart

 

The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an on coming train!

colorado hirailer posted:

I want flying pumps on all my engines, which makes me a fan of C&O Mikados, and their brow-mounted Elescos and coal-firing Vanderbilts, which these UP's don't have (all oil fired?).  IF l find photos of an 0-4-0, as well as Moguls and Consolidations, or other small engines, with pumps and Elescos (may never have existed!), or been logical, l  will modify my free-lanced road's locos to include those.  One of my earliest childhood railroad photo exposures was to a Kalmbach book picturing Rio Grande's articulateds with "busy" smokeboxes.

All of the UP 4-12-2's were coal burners. 

Stuart

 

The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an on coming train!

Yes, a number of old brass models of SP? oil-fired Vanderbilt tenders can be found in shows, and if coal, l would replace all tender bodies with them, but  am too lazy so far to tackle bashing the few accumulated into much less common coal versions.

??Another one of THOSE!!??  What you want to sell is not what I want to buy!

The SP had coal Vanderbilts behind some 2-10-2s.  However, with the exception of the smaller 9000 and 10000 gal tanks, the UP and SP tenders are vastly different.

I have one each - Lionel and scratchbuilt.  Except for that sand dome and the wheels/couplers, the Lionel is a spectacular model.  I have never seen a photo of the real thing with a boxy sand dome.

I like that.  Here is a photo of my version, and just for kicks, the Lionel version that I might one day decide to keep and convert to 2-rail.  My version has been upgraded a teeny bit since the photo with firebox screens and those giant pilot braces.  Note the huge gearbox on the Lionel - I obviously know how to fix that, although without NWSL, gear parts will be lots harder to come by.4-12-2 PortraitDSC02475

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bob2 posted:

Any idea why both MTH and Lionel used squared-off sand domes?

I have heard that Lionel made two versions, and one is several hundred bucks more on the market than the other.

I recommend vol.1 of the Kratville book to make sure you catch all the variations.

The early classes of UP 4-12-2's had a smaller sand dome that was squared off.  I think that was probably the 9000 (only member of class UP-1) and the second 14 locomotives (UP-2 class).  The later engines had larger sand domes that were round when viewed from directly above.  My Kratville/Bush book is at home--it describes the class differences in extreme detail.

There were quite a few design differences between the five classes of these locomotives, which were built over the course of 5 years from 1926-1930.  Changes were made to the valve gear bearings, stoker type, locomotive bed, feedwater heater, throttle type, tender capacity, and I'm sure other things.  Some tenders had booster engines on the front trucks for a time and some locomotives were built with moveable smoke hoods.  And of course, the railroad made modifications over their service lives.

Scott Griggs

Louisville, KY

bob2 posted:

Mine is on my lap.  #9000 is on p. 113, with a rounded sand dome.  I have studied every single photo in Vol. 1, and cannot find a rectangular sand dome on any version.

Looking through Vol. 2, there are no photos showing a sand dome squared off as drastic as what is shown in this photo of a model:

That said, there are many photos of sand domes such as this...

...where the sand dome is somewhat elongated and with a bit of a flat side in order to accommodate the six sander valves mounted at the very bottom of the dome. 

Scott said,
"The early classes of UP 4-12-2's had a smaller sand dome that was squared off.  I think that was probably the 9000 (only member of class UP-1) and the second 14 locomotives (UP-2 class).  The later engines had larger sand domes that were round when viewed from directly above.  My Kratville/Bush book is at home--it describes the class differences in extreme detail."

Scott,
I think you have things backwards. The smaller domes were round, the larger ones were as shown above.

The UP-1 and UP-2 classes had sand domes with flat sides and flat faces on front and rear.  There were also generous radii on the top edges and corners (these were after all stampings and not fabricated parts).  The UP-3 and later classes had sand domes that were circular in the plan view, without the flat faces.  That is where my "square" vs round comment comes from.  If you look at the many photos of scale models from various manufacturers of the UP 9000, you will see representations of the squared sand dome.  Those scale models can't all be wrong, although they may have smaller radii than the prototype.

I'll have to look at my Union Pacific Vol 1 book tonight to see if there are detail drawings of just the sand domes.  The side view erection drawings of the locomotive do not show the shape of the domes as viewed from directly above.

That is what is neat about building your own.  I can copy photos instead of drawings, and do what I want.  If I keep the Lionel, you can bet a Dremel tool will seriously damage that dome.  I still have not seen a photo that matches the Lionel dome, let alone that awful MTH version.

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