VL Big Boy whistle smoke anyone e. lse issues determining if it has smoke coming out? Update video added

I have the same problem with whistle smoke.  It would be nice if they had made it bigger volume smoke unit.

I think the volume is OK, but the vicinity to the 2 stacks makes it tough to see. I noticed with I turned off those units the smoke was OK

 

my understanding is if you turn smoke stacks off you also lose the whistle smoke.

 

did I miss something?

 

 

lost its downright missing!  good thing for whistle sounds!!

 

MartyE... would have been nice if one could have disabled each one using cab2 but other way works as well.
senior clog never thought of using the switches  under dome to disable smoke stacks only. And still have whistle smoke might be a plan!!

thanks for clarifying that for me.

I'm on the fence about being to disable them via the CAB2.  I think that could be a nightmare for Lionel's CS department with folks having too many options.  But who knows.

 

To the original question, I too find with stack smoke on, whistle smoke is hard to see.  In some lighting conditions I see it better than others.

I see the same thing.  OTOH, if they had moved the whistle, can you imagine the howls of disapproval!   ****ed it you do, ****ed if you don't. 

Turning off the main smoke turns off the whistle smoke, look in the manual

for the Big Boy.

 

You can't always believe what you read.  I just tried it, whistle smoke works, stack smoke turned off.

 

I think there are several things in the manual that were cut and pasted from other manuals, and not proof read.  The above example as John points out is just one of several I found.  Regarding the smoke, I think part of it is also that the whistle suffers from the same problem as the blow down, that of the smoke exit port being smaller then the tube leading to it, thus the smoke shoots out at a high speed which means you don't see it at the whistle.  Think of sticking your finger on the end of the hose to make the water come out with more force.  I also have noticed that if I turn the stacks off (Via the switch under the dome.) that the whistle and blow down smokes get thicker, which makes them easier to see.  So all the resisters' power may be coming from the same source internal to the locomotive and with the stacks off more power is there for the other 2 and they can heat better which gives better smoke.

I will attempt using ipad and do a video of my smoke whistle with fix in place I was amazed it almost equals my atsf 3751 whistle smoke putput.
it might be that the actual hole in the evergreen tubing is only 1/16" so sometimes smaller is better.

Mike R did a great product video on the VL BB.  I don't have the link as of now, but if you search Vision BB on youtube, it'll pop up.  It's about an hr long as I remember.

If you turn off the main smoke units using the switches the other two (Blowdown and Whistle)  work just fine. I'll believe my eyes over what you read in the manual anytime

With only the main smoke switch off, there was a little puff of smoke from

the whistle smoke unit each time the whistle was operated. The track was then connected

to a Z 4000 transformer at max voltage. There was a large volume of smoke from

the whistle when operating the whistle.

The whistle smoke unit will operate by itself but it seems to require a high voltage on

the track.

 

 

 

 

It needs 18v and try blowing down it

I run with 18 volts on the track, and whistle smoke works the same with or without the main stacks switched on.

Only issue with whistle smoke is at startup seems like it takes 5 minutes to really produce smoke!
I have tried only 3 drops no help, tried 10 additional drops blow down the fill hole no help.
Tried the 1 line pipette still no joy I have litterally timed it 5 minutes to smoke whistle actually producing smoke since brand new.
so do I just have a whistle that's like a human with a slow to awake liver and just wait it out or is there something else going on here??

It does take some time for both the whistle and blowdown to heat up so they're ready to produce smoke.  They have heat continuously and increase it when you call for smoke, it takes some time for them to get "up to speed".

 

thanks gunrunnerjohn  I thought it was just mine.

I don't think it's 5 minutes, but I'd say I leave it a couple of minutes before I expect full performance.

 

One thing to check is the "loaded" track voltage. Set up a DVM meter near your BB and measure the voltage at: idle, stack smoke, whistle smoke, blow down smoke and forward movement and then ALL of the above...The BB is just that, a BB. It needs a lot of current and high voltage to operate properly.

 

If you see the voltage drop a lot (not easy to predict "a lot" due to many variables) then you need lower impedance in your track. Improve wire connections to the track.

The operation of the smoke units vary with track voltage. At the voltage I was

using, turning off the main smoke unit off caused the whistle not to smoke.

Increasing the track voltage caused the whistle unit to smoke very well

even with the main smoke unit off.

 

When the BB manual was written and tested, the track voltage may have been

at a level that turning the main smoke unit off caused the whistle unit to

stop smoking.

 

I can't imagine how lower track voltage would affect this.  I can run the BB on my 1033 on the bench on 14V, and the whistle still smokes with the main stack switch off.  The operation of those switches is a digital function, not a function of track voltage.

Is it also possible that the internal power wires that go from the drive wheels/pick up rollers to power the internals (PCBs, smoke units, lights, motor...etc) of the VL BB are a bit under rated for the current needed at full load? If so, some operational problems may occur and a higher track voltage can help some what. I did notice on my VL BB that the smoke effects were much better at 18 VAC than at 15VAC using Z4000 and Legacy remote. I had only a 12 foot RealTrax straights with two power points.

Just guessing!

Hard to believe the wires are undersized.

Hey, I have been known to guess wrong...so has Lionel Just kidding.

 

But my BB does seem to operate (smokes) a lot better at higher voltages..

The Big Boy needs voltage to smoke well.  I had mine on a track with many lighted passenger cars.  When operating the voltage was 15v.  When I removed all the lighted cars the voltage was at 17.8.  The Big Boy smoked much better.  Mike Reagan will tell you that the Lionel smoke units need 18v for best results. 

yes 18 volts is the magic number.  also I have noticed on mine maybe not yours if smoke set to low smoke volume for whistle smoke is same so set my smoke to high poof and away it went nice and thick.

 

I should email lionel and ask why for mine does that! and I did email them will wait to see if a cure available.

I also have blockage issues after filling be it 3 drops or 1 line of pipette for the whistle smoke only. almost acts like a homes water drain pipe not having a air vent line.

 

Yes, 18 VAC seems to be the sweet spot for the VL BB. The problem is, if you set the track at 18VAC "Unloaded", as you run the loco,  lights and cars and as the BB goes further from the power feed source the actual "loaded" voltage will drop a few volts and hence the smoking effects will suffer. Now one can correct this by increasing the voltage back up to 18 volts while everything is running. But now the "unloaded" voltage can go up to , lets say, 20VAC if you remove cars and lighting and so on, so if you power up the track next time with only the BB at a stand still and at the last higher voltage setting, the Legacy circuits will see 20VAC!!! According to the Lionel VL BB manual, over 18 VAC can damage the boards. So it can be a "catch 22"

 

I am new to the Legacy/Lionel locos so I am still learning and I find myself setting the voltage at 17 VAC to start with, as I run the VL BB, I measure the voltage with a DVM right near the loco and I adjust the Z4000 accordingly. Then the BB sees 18 VAC almost all the time. The nice thing about the Z4000 is that one has to move the handles to zero on start up so there is no danger of over-voltage to the BB next time you power it up.....

If you properly wire your track drops and bus, you won't have huge voltage drops around the layout.  If you're seeing multi-volt drops anywhere, it's time to fix the layout, not increase the voltage.

 

At reduced voltage, the whistle smoke unit may not get hot enough to

smoke very well. With the main smoke unit turned on, enough heat from

the main smoke unit, added to the heat from the whistle smoke unit, may

make the whistle smoke unit output very good. Turning off the main smoke

unit will reduce the heating of the whistle smoke unit and make it look like

the whistle smoke unit is also off.

 

I don't see how the heat in the main stack could affect the whistle smoke, so I don't buy that reasoning.  The two are physically separate smoke units, and they have plastic bowls.  If they get hot enough to actually affect the adjacent unit, I'd be worried!

 

 

 Lionel smoke units work best with a "chopped sine wave transformer".Maybe part of the issue is the "smooth sine wave" of the Z4000:

 

 

Having said that, as John mentioned, if your losing a couple of volts at the track you may need larger/ more buss/ feed wires. Lionel also recommends a minimum of 14 ga in a command environment.