Please give the product number. I’m sure someone will be able to help.

Rod - I’m pretty sure it’s 6-11909 from 1996.

yes thats correct... it is:

Lionel 6-11909 Warhorse N&W J Steam Locomotive Freight Set with TMCC Command Control

Sounds like you have more than one failure going on here. I think, since you mentioned LCRU, you mean this set 6-11909 https://www.lionelsupport.com/...tive-Only-6108049001

So some facts or clues about your problems. We are going to skip the TMCC radio reception first because yes that is a problem, but the sounds is a different problem.

From the diagram and my own experience with this engine and several from this timeframe of early TMCC and railsounds, this engine uses a cam on the axle for the chuff switch as well as driving the piston up and down in the smoke unit. So it could either be the cam (#75)- especially if it was the plastic version can crack on the axle shaft, or just the chuff switch (#28) can also fail. Another wear point is the cam follower tab (#26) that as it wears and gets shorter rubbing against the cam then the stroke is shortened and may no longer or intermittently fail to click the switch.

On the lack of TMCC reception- yes, the LCRU might have slowly lost tuning due to age of the electronic components like capacitors drying out and aging. The board is roughly from 1996 so it's an antique if it was a car. But first, I would normally check the handrails for shorts to the boiler shell and frame, however, I think this engine isolates the entire upper shell from the lower frame by using 3 bushings (#56, #57x2) and washers (#58x3). It possible and even highly likely that a missing or cracked bushing or washer is allowing the shell to short to the frame thus shorting the TMCC antenna.

Hi, I had a similar problem last year with same loco....check the harness connection between tender and engine.   What happened to mine was, I lost the single pin in the connector from the engine side.  Here is a picture from Lionel

Meant to attach the full picture grabbed from Lionel

Also, again, this is kind of somewhat expected- "initially it makes chuff/chug and then nothing... "

Correct, when the LCRU switches from neutral into a direction, this then tells the Railsounds to expect a chuff and sends one chuff. Since the chuff switch is suspect to not be operating one possible answer for failure is the smoke cam cracked and thus is not rotating with the wheels. That said, it is a system of parts and all have to be working together to make the switch open and close properly.

Further, I'm hoping you also get conventional whistle and bell right?

Also, since this is railsounds 2.5, it did have somewhat limited sounds so if it's thinking it's moving, and expecting chuffing, then no background sounds while waiting for the chuff signal which never comes. If in neutral, then yes, I think there was idle sounds but no crew talk or tower talk on those sound chips. So yeah, it would be pretty silent when the chuff switch as a system is not working.

So if i unplug Command base...push whistle on ZW...i get bell sound... so i am going to say i get conventional bell and whistle...

If i switch the switch to program..it also just goes forward...with single chuff...doesnt wait for programming...

@davido1224 posted:

So if i unplug Command base...push whistle on ZW...i get bell sound... so i am going to say i get conventional bell and whistle...

So your ZW is possibly wired backwards (U to center rail instead of outside rail)??? Either that or the whistle diode is the wrong way in that ZW.- Not the end of the world- but wiring could mess with TMCC signal.

So again, TMCC antenna 101. Based on the diagram and what I remember about this series of engine, the Boiler shell must be isolated from the frame. Also, they are using that one eyelet to connect the antenna wire of the LCRU2 to the boiler shell.

Take a meter, set it Ohms or diode check, and ensure there is not continuity between the handrails, the boiler shell and the lower frame or wheels. Since the shell is painted, you could touch one of the 3 mounting screws since they are supposed to be in plastic bushings and washers.

Rails52 was correct for my sound issue...missing pin...i added pin and the sound chugging/idle etc is working in conventional...

Before i go into deeper troubleshooting... thank you Vernon...i will work my way to those tips...

Does anyone know how the switches should be set for program and run etc... there is one on the engine and one on the tender... and is there a reset or anything?

thanks

Finally found a diagram thanks to @Mellow Hudson Mike https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...1#157688391398250851

So this explains it to me. Some engines used what I call serial data chuff. That is where the radio receiver in the engine typically has the chuff switch to it, and then over the serial data line to the tender mounted railsounds the chuff is sent digitally. However, in this engine, the chuff switch is physically in the engine, and shares frame ground in the engine, but the other side of the switch goes back through the tether as the "blue/black" colored wire directly to the railsounds speed sensor 3 pin connector. That connector can support hall effect based sensors, reed switch short to ground, or a chuff switch short to ground. So yes, a problem in the tether like a missing or broken pin or wire could cause lack of chuff.

Like I said, this now makes the TMCC side of this a completely separate problem, and that could be the LCRU or some problem with the shell isolation acting as the antenna. I guess another option is failed program/run switch.

And then, you kind of threw a twist at me with what sounds like your ZW wiring or whistle diode was sounding bell rather than whistle.

@davido1224 posted:

Rails52 was correct for my sound issue...missing pin...i added pin and the sound chugging/idle etc is working in conventional...

Before i go into deeper troubleshooting... thank you Vernon...i will work my way to those tips...

Does anyone know how the switches should be set for program and run etc... there is one on the engine and one on the tender... and is there a reset or anything?

thanks

The one in the tender is railsounds (full sounds including chuff) or ONLY signalsounds (whistle and bell but no other sounds including chuff).

Glad you found it was a missing/broken pin in the tether for the chuff.

LCRU2 reset codes discussion https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...43#72805549359267643

Yours is going to be 4 = STEAM WITH SMOKE     Ignore the warhorse one (70) that is for a scale engine, not this one you have)

As far as the detail on the program run switch https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...4#152336474729905134

EDIT

From @PaperTRW "for the LCRU2. Closed is program."

Oops, needed reed further down.

from @PaperTRW "That's not the case for the LCRU2. Closed is program."

ok so i will just be dealinig with single switch on engine to try to program...i will try later...thank you for your help...

Glad you found that before ripping into the engine....your welcome

As for reprogramming the loco, I do believe I tried several different numbers until 740 might of worked, not sure.

ok so if I set switch one way on engine it runs in conventions with sounds... if i switch it opposite(i would think program) it runs in one direction...doesnt stop and wait for tmcc commands...

So my question now...if i take apart any thoughts on what should i look at first? antenna? that tuning dial on lcru???

thanks

oh sorry ... thanks for the pin advice Rails52...that solved one issue...now i am thinking LCRU or something else preventing the TMCC from working...

Basics of TMCC operation. The first thing on power up the engine is listening for the baseline TMCC RF signal picked up by the antenna. It then waits a few microseconds, and then decides if NO TMCC signal is heard, then it goes into conventional. As such, in conventional the program/run switch also acts as a direction lock switch. "if i switch it opposite(i would think program) it runs in one direction."

So yes, that switch is program mode.

So yes, as I pointed out a few times- check the antenna. In this case, the ENTIRE engine shell appears to be the antenna, not just the handrails as some engines. So the entire upper shell must not show continuity to the wheels or lower frame of the engine.

Again, the way this engine is built, the entire boiler shell floats and is attached by 3 screws that go through plastic bushings and washer sets to isolate and insulate the screw from shorting the engine shell to the lower frame. In addition, there is a wire with an eyelet that uses that front mounting screw location as it's way of connecting the LCRU2 antenna to the boiler shell. It's highly likely if this engine was opened someone put it together and missed a washer or bushing, or got that front eyelet wrong. That eyelet is #11 below

However, it's sandwiched between the boiler shell coming down and the screw (#68) coming up through the frame front pilot hole plastic washer(58) and bushing(56).

You can test the engine without the boiler shell in place as long as #11 antenna wire from the LCRU is not touching anything and is raised up slightly to about smoke unit upper height to act alone as an antenna.

So 3 screws all have the plastic "washers"... shell off and #11wire pointed straight up... only thing i get from program direction is "locks" in whatever direction it is going before i make the switch...

i tried turning tuner screw back forth tiny bit... still nothing... i tried taking out the switch wires and touched the 2 pins to "close" it ...same...no response...

Anything else before saying bad board?

thanks for all your help...

Kinda pricey, I would wait until fall Lionel parts sale https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ATSINK-1-MOTOR-STEAM

y i agree...thanks for your help...

Just wanted to update... problem was twofold... 1.) the pin was missing which resolved the sound issue and 2.) replacing the LCRU solved the command issue...

Thanks for all your help

Glad you got it working, I hate to hear it took a replacement LCRU2.

That said, I now have a decent pile of non TMCC receiving LCRU and LCRU2s. Basically it's now become a solid state AC motor reverse unit. All I'm getting at is, even a not working as originally intended LCRU can have a purpose in life. Tired of that traditional E-unit buzz? Nothing like reusing something from the junk pile to improve something else. Just my cents on how to recoup a tiny bit of gain from having to replace one.

y actually a good idea... i got the lcru off ebay around 50 with sound board included...so now i have extra sound board with sound chip that i dont really care about... but i'm sure sometime in the future if i remember i have it, it will come in handy