What can we do to get Lionel to create modern rolling stock

Well, if you could demonstrate that the sales for the "modern" cars made by American Models shot up when Lionel produced the "Modern" engines, that might be something that they would respect.

I think that you really have to demonstrate that there is some demand out there for the product, I don't think that they will "buy into" building a product to create demand. 

I would bet that Lionel feels that, for such a small market, that they will build only for the most popularly modeled era, which in all scales seems to be the "transition era"

LittleTommy

Rocco:  I wish I could say something to be encouraging about Lionel, but as I said yesterday even MTH is not interested.  

I think you guys would do better if you approached Ron at American Models.  Especially since so may of you talk like you are more scale than Flyer.  Have you thought of AM as your real solution?

BANDOB posted:

I don't understand. What is not "modern" about big boxcars, auto parts cars, tank trains,  auto carriers, double stack cars, spine cars, etc. etc.

 

 

Being this is the S Scale Trains Forum, such things do not exist in the Flyer line.

Perhaps the OP should add "for Flyer" in the subject line or change to "What can we do to encourage modern American Flyer rolling stock from Lionel."

Rusty

Rocco posted:

 

Some thoughts I have had were creating a survey or poll.  I think whatever we come up with has to be a can't miss hit and once tooled can produced in many multiple road names and be part of multi-car sets.  It needs to be something that a significant number of people would commit to in buying.

What does everyone think?  What are your ideas?  Maybe we can start an effort here.

--Rocco--

Do you really think the members of this forum are representative of the entire S community?  Do you think there is a large enough sample available here to get a valid answer?  What will prevent the non-S people from participating in the survey?

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

My apologies. Saw it in "recent posts" and did not realize it was in S Scale forum.

If enough people asked for specific modern freight cars using the CONTACT US section on lionel.com then they will do something.

"I think you guys would do better if you approached Ron at American Models.  Especially since so may of you talk like you are more scale than Flyer.  Have you thought of AM as your real solution?"

This approach makes the most sense. American Models rolling stock works right out of the box, allows scale or high rail wheels (easily interchangeable if a user changes his or her mind) and American Flyer-style or scale style couplers, and can handle relatively narrow radii if the car is long. Replacement parts are readily available if a user breaks something or wants to modify the car. Even with all this flexibility, the prices are reasonable. If Ron announces a product, it is often available the following month. He doesn't cancel the project and accidentally let you know two years later in the month you expect to receive the product you paid for two years earlier. The rolling stock represents cars you see or have seen some time in your life--unless zombies have invaded your town or there is a Life Saver factory or a baseball team with their own railroads that run locally.

American Models likes to surprise customers with models that suddenly show up fully clothed and ready to run, like the RS-11s. However, in the past Ron did ask for advances for the Pacific locomotive to offset the high cost of development. If there is a consensus on a model that S gauges would support and we were willing to support the effort with advance payment, that might work. Autoracks, modern hoppers, and container cars are the three that have been mentioned most often on this forum as desirable modern rolling stock. If there were a poll on this site, perhaps the results could convince him to entertain the notion of developing a new car with advance funding. At the moment American Models appears to be the only trustworthy source of S gauge rolling stock or locomotives.

He (Ron at AM) might be the most "trust worthy" source, but compaired to L&M there seems to be a real lack of information flow.  Maybe because no one asks him, I don't know.  But I don't see any interviews with him (or Des Plaines Hobbies) and neither seem to post here (even if this Little corner of the Internet is not the end all be all of S gauge chatter). Lionel and MTH will answer our questions (more often than not) we just generally don't like what they have to say.  

Reading the intro to AMs new catalog, there is talk of economy sucks this and that, not promising in the way of new tooled stuff. 

Ben

Guys, a friend of mine sells AM and visits with him pretty often.  Word from my friend is Ron has been fully engaged in the construction of a new building for his business.  The building is about done.  

When I have called to ask a question about a product or an order I often get him to talk to.  Why don't one of you call and ask to talk with him.  The worst that can happen is he will say no. 

American Models 248-437-6800

This week I scanned about 25 years worth of S Gaugian and noted that there were several interviews with Ron in the past. There were also advertisements about development on GP35s, SD60s, F40PHs, and cabooses. S Helper did the same, and every one of the promised products from both companies became a reality. There were far more interviews with Lionel personnel who made vague generalizations about the value of American Flyer and S Gauge and who promised changes in the future. Those changes were generally their personnel replacements with new pictures who began their interviews with the same vague generalizations. The introductions of the U33C, Challenger, SD70ACe, ES44AC, and cylindrical hoppers created some real excitement in our hobby, but much of that appears to be the work of a group in Santa Clara that may be gone. I have talked to Lionel people on the phone, written emails, and even wrote letters; but I have gotten no response. If I call American Models, I can often talk to Ron himself; and he is always helpful with advice on a modification or the rare repair. He won't divulge what's coming, though; and he stated as much in an S Gaugian interview years ago. He didn't like to make promises or set dates because there were always delays, and delays made people unhappy. Apparently a "delay" to him was a slip measured in months, not in years.  

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, if Lionel ever catalogs a modern freight car, or anything new for that matter, the best way to get it into production is to pre-order those items. Those who say "I want to see what it looks like first," are the ones who kill a project. I ordered all the prototype paint schemes in the cylindrical hoppers even though the first run was unusable due to the weird scale flange, out of gauge/Flyer coupler combo. I still ordered the second run with deeper flanges still sitting too high with the incomprehensible bolster design. They'd at least run out of the box.

So I have a fleet of cars to re-truck. At least they exist.

I trust Lionel would have made a nice body for the 57' reefers, how they would have rode on the trucks would have been a complete crap-shoot. Correct height would be nice. Things like that count.

I agree, AM may have a few tricks up their sleeves when the economy recovers. I have faith in them.

I haven't checked to confirm, but Ron of American Models usually attends and has a booth at the Spring S Spree.  So if you are near Strongsville (Cleveland), Ohio this May 12-14th, stop by this year's event hosted by the Cuyahoga Valley S Gauge Association.  You can get more information at the CVSGA Website. 

Ron made a surprise release of the RS-11's at the last Spree held last year in the Dayton area.

Mike A.

TOKELLY posted:

However, in the past Ron did ask for advances for the Pacific locomotive to offset the high cost of development. If there is a consensus on a model that S gauges would support and we were willing to support the effort with advance payment, that might work. Autoracks, modern hoppers, and container cars are the three that have been mentioned most often on this forum as desirable modern rolling stock. If there were a poll on this site, perhaps the results could convince him to entertain the notion of developing a new car with advance funding. At the moment American Models appears to be the only trustworthy source of S gauge rolling stock or locomotives.

Actually, I think the Pacific was one of the last collaborations with S-Helper Service, hence the deposits.  I remember the drawings being in an SHS newsletter.  No deposits were sought for the 4-8-4 and it was already in stock when the flyers went out.

Still...  If Ron's constructing a new building, things may be going pretty well for AM.  He sure is good at keeping his light under a basket.  Maybe he'll be in a better position to take advantage of the drought from Lionel and MTH now.

Rusty

What was the time interval between the AM RS11 and the previous locomotive offering?

Rich

The T&P GP9's arrived in December 2014.  (Not really a new product, except for paint.)  They were due in October, but were delayed by the west coast dock strike.

The RS11's arrived in July 2015.

The prior to those releases, the SD60's and Train Master's were the previous *NEW* locomotives arriving waaaay back in 2006.

Rusty

Quite a gap. Thanks Rusty.

Rich

So the thought is that this forum may not be representative of the entire S gauge market.  I have a friend who is very active in S clubs in the Central states area.  He has often said that groups like our are not representative of the S market, yet many of the top asks are the same.  I think we need to start somewhere.  We have to pick something to tell Lionel to make that

1) Appeals to both Hirail and scale S potential customers (minor cost to convert to full scale)

2) Can be made for a reasonable cost

3) Would be a piece that you would buy multiple cars with different numbers (i.e. Sold as 3 car sets)

4) Multiple road names could be issued each year.

I suggest we come up with a list of 4 to 5 items.   I would post it here, on the Yahoo forum and the Facebook page.  I would then ask those who know club members to circulate the list and get results from clubs.  I would be happy to compile and share this with Lionel or any other manufacture who would have interest.

To start us off I would offer the following for consideration

1)89' Auto Carrier (Auto Racks)

2) TTX Flat cars with trailers

3) 60" Boxcars

NOTE: Would have listed the 57' Reefers but I am convinced that Lionel will not reconsider.

Let's first come up with our list then we can vote on what we want and how many we might buy if they are made a quality pieces.

--Rocco--

SPSF posted:

Did the 86 foot boxcar and the 89 foot Autorack almost bankrupt Lionel?

I can't see why they would run a 2nd release of these if the sales weren't there.

Maybe more people need to pester them.

 

I think this post is meant for the S gauge market. Not O.

My 2 cents - I bet Lionel would consider an AF scale rolling stock piece if there were enough S modelers to buy the offering and help Lionel turn a profit. As we all know, tooling isn't cheap.

Certainly seems the AF catalog gets smaller and smaller. And they keep cataloging the cylindrical hoppers. Must mean they have a ton in stock. I think the best thing S-gaugers could do is preorder what they can from the catalogs to show Lionel there's still a demand. Then maybe they'll consider cutting tools for a new piece.