What do you recommend when powering yards

I don't see how you use the TIU to get the DCS signal to the yard if you're using all the channels for your mainlines, so it appears you need another TIU at least.  I personally don't see any problem with the PH180 powering a TIU channel, they're a perfect match for the capacity of one channel.  I'm presuming you plan on having the entire yard on one power district?  As for the Legacy, you are fine just keeping all the track commons connected, no extra stuff needed there.

Are you running the TIU for the mainline in passive mode?  The reason I ask is you mention another Z4000, and each TIU channel is only good for 10A, so I don't know where you connect any more power.  The Z4000 is already giving you the 10A per channel into the TIU.

I agree with John.  Any way you cut it, you're going to need another TIU and power source.  The PH180s are very good, relatively inexpensive power supplies for track in command-control layouts.  And you don't have to raise or lower any handles.  You may want to power the TIU itself separately.  And, I am assuming that you are powering the switch machines separately as well (i.e. not from track power).

Best,

George

Thanks a bunch guys for your advice and suggestions. I am going to start laying the yard next weekend so I will see how things pan out as I progress.

Since the DCS signal is on both rails, I don't think you can have separate power districts and run them from a single DCS channel.

Just on a lark, you could try to connect a .1uf ceramic capacitors between the two power districts and see if you could propagate the DCS signal that way, I've never tried it.  It's a 3.27mhz signal, so a .1uf cap should look like less than an ohm at that frequency.  I may have to try that to see what happens.   Since you can have the outside rails common all around, you may just need the center rail to be coupled that way.

Well... blow me down!  It works in a limited test!

I just dropped a short length of track next to my DCS track and connected it with said .1uf cap between the rails and I can control a DCS locomotive on that track with an independent power supply.  I happen to be using the TIU in active mode, but the DCS signal is being used passively on that track.

I have no idea if it would work on a larger block of track, but you could try it before investing in another TIU, at least for the short run.

Wow, you are a genius....where do I get that exact .1uf capacitor? Radio Shack?? What exactly does the capacitor do between them...does it filter out all power current and just pass through the DCS signal?

Just a thought....if the Z4000 is in phase with the power prick what happens if you connect both together...will it short?

Well, don't be to hasty in declaring me a genius.   While it worked in a limited test, I have no idea if it'll work for a larger set of track or a different layout.

The .1uf cap can get obtained at Radio Shack or almost any electronics supply place, it's a very common value.  I'd suggest even trying a slightly larger value, say .47uf, that may even work better, I can't say.

The cap just allows the DCS signals through but blocks the 60hz power.

What's the difference between .1uf and .47uf? would the .47 be a safer call to help protect against damaging anything? How much do those caps cost in Radio Shack? I wonder if anyone else on this forum has tried this method.

.47uf would simply allow a lower impedance path between the tracks for the signal.  I have no idea if it would be significant, just a thought.  You can actually get a number of capacitor values very cheaply and experiment if you desire.  They should only be 10-20 cents, even at Radio Shack.

If you're feeding the TIU with the PH-180, there is no need for the TMCC Direct Lockon, it's totally redundant.  The PH-180 has an excellent electronic breaker that is fine for input to the TIU.

I have the proper Molex connectors, so I just make matching cables. from Molex to the banana plugs for the TIU.

I don't think you need a TMCC Direct Lockon, but it does have an even more sensitive trip than the PH-180.  However, for DCS, you can't use it anyway, something about the TMCC Direct Lockon kills the DCS signal.  I'd use the PH-180 direct, and put an in-line fuse if you're worried about maximum protection.

I totally agree, don't cut the plugs off the PH-180 transformer!  I happened to have been building some equipment years ago that used the exact same Molex plug, so I have a bunch of them in left-over parts, convenient when I want to make cables for some of the Lionel stuff. 

I checked radio shack today and didn't find any Molex connectors so I will see if I can find another electronics store in the area. I also looked for the caps and I got confused when I was searching through the bins at Radio Shack because there were all diff types sizes and shapes of capacitors. I did buy barrel type caps (one assortment pack and another was just a single that is labeled 47uf but when I got home i realized that I needed a .47 I also could not find any .1ufs so I am hoping there is one in the assorted pack if I even have the right type..lol

Email me your address and I'll send you a couple of various values.

Hi John, Thanks so much for the offer...that was very nice of you. I wound up ordering another TIU and I also ordered the Lionel molex connector which was only $12 for 3 diff types. I been busy working all weekend on the framing (extending the table) and even laid some of the track for the yard. I will post pictures when I get a little further done. Did you get a chance to see my layout video? Thanks again for all your help.

I did check out the video, that will be one serious layout when completed!   Nice to have all that room to run in.

I'd only switch the hot side, no need to switch the commons.

As far as those LED's, they claim to be 12V, and I suspect since they don't mention AC that you may need a diode to use them with AC as well.

I like the idea of a DCS programming track, as I have had issues when the locomotive is at certain locations on the track.  OTOH, I've never had an issue configuring a TMCC/Legacy device, no matter where it was on the track.

I did a little reading up...looks like I'm going to need a regulator not a resistor in order to bring the 18v down to 12v to light the LEDS. I found this one at radio shack.

http://www.radioshack.com/prod...sp?productId=2062600

The regulator with the related parts (rectifier,capacitors etc) would work,however all you really need is a simple diode and appropriate resistor. Anything over 300 ohm 1/4 watt should work. I would use a 470 ohm 1/4 watt in series with a diode (1n4001 or whatever) in proper polarity. If it is too bright use a higher value resistor.

Dale H

He's talking more resistance, the 1/4w is fine for any value you pick.

ok, starting to get what you are talking about...lol I will run to radio shack sometime tomorrow. Thanks again!

Guys everything worked out to the way I wanted it to. Between the chokes and the ability to switch on or off each of the yard runs is really cool and fun to play with. 

Note: the red light is position right on each toggle switch which is for TMCC mode which turns on the chokes. Which ever yard track run has TMCC engines on it I just switch them to the right.  As for DCS I just switch any of the yard runs that have DCS engines to the left and the light color for left is orange. When switched to the left it bypasses the choke. The center position of each toggle switch is off. I have a total of 6 switches that control each of my 6 track yard runs and I also have an additional switch that is for the main track that enters my yard area so that way if I have either an DCS or TMCC engine sitting in that area of track I can switch to either TMCC mode or DCS.

I had 10 engines sitting idle in the yard which was really cool. The yard is run on one 180 brick. I want to at least add one or even 2 more bricks to feed my yard because one was just not enough which was expected with 10 engines on at once

I also took your advice and moved the second TIU right next to the yard which you can also see from the pictures that I built a nice wall to hang the new TIU, Power Brick and Terminal Block. My main control board is across from my newly added yard control board.

The chokes I got are really good. They are 18v and not a swift of temperature (it's a wonderful life ) They don't get hot at all so it was a great idea to find these 22uh 18v chokes.

That's going to be an impressive layout, looks great!  Looks like you've been down under for quite some time wiring all that up!

I'm impressed that cat knows how to run the trains, that's not what you normally see!

Thanks John, and thanks to you and Dale and to anyone else who gave me such great advice on getting yard up and running to my likings. The funny part is that when you look at all that wiring I had to do in order to make DCS and Legacy work together you say to yourself why in the heck don't Lionel and DCS make there systems 100% compatible with each other Maybe the next gen. DCS will be fully compatible.

Posted pictures all taken on Sunday. Feel free to click on link below and then select view slide show.

Enjoy!

-Matt

http://s179.photobucket.com/al...e%20Oct%2021%202012/

Looks good Matt. You've been a busy bee.

Dale H

At the risk of confusing the issue and not wishing to, what is the purpose of these chokes? Also, since when do ckokes have a voltage rating? I am glad the system works for Matt what ever the reason, just wanting to know. I missed something somewhere.

Al