What Piece Of Rolling Stock Would You Choose...

I would choose the B&O wagon top covered hopper! Never made in O Scale, except for high end brass models, MANY, MANY years ago.

Any of the double-sheathed or outside-braced Southern Pacific box cars, but especially the Sunset and Shasta Route box cars.  Or the 1950-55 SP box cars.  Matt

Bob

We're just beginning to assist the widow of a close friend in the Williamsburg, Va area with disposition of a good sized of O scale railroad(tight radius 2 rail).  The large rolling stock collection ranges from low end plastic to some high end brass - with many interesting prototypes and in very nice shape.  What modelers don't purchase off a pre-priced list we will circulate locally will go to one of the large auction houses (she doesn't want to be bothered with individually listing and shipping the items).  Contact me off line and I will add you to the mailing list we will circulate the inventory to once we complete it.  And yes - there are a number of SAL cars, and even a B&O round roof covered hopper.

Ed Rappe

If "rolling stock" excludes locomotives, (if not, I would pick the elescoed Mikados to

represent the C&O), one of their many varieties of side door cabooses could represent

the Missouri Pacific.  Their yellow cabooses seem to represent the Katy (MKT).  The

standard gauge Rio Grande could be reprsented by their black stock cars.  Red hoppers

or their double door reefer could reprsent the Burlington. And, on and on....

I like the NP for the their round top roof box cars and I liked the ones below:

Steel side reefer and outside braced box cars:

i'm not from the northeast and i still don't have a good idea where Aroostook is, but the State of Maine blue, white & red livery has to be one of the most recognizable and one of my favorites...

Ed, will do, thanks!

Keep'em coming guys, looks like I have some rolling stock to get.

I was thinking this thread would exclude engines, cabooses, and passenger cars, so if we can keep it on that order that would be my preference.

I didn't know that the NP had any round top box cars. Sure would like to see some photos of those. Maybe we could ask Weaver to offer some of those in O Scale, since they already produced the B&O "wagon top" boxcars.

Difficult to tell that the roof is "rounded" in THAT photo.

The NP had wood round boxcar roofs not really a wagon top box car. Not a glorified shot but here is one left standing...

yep its at the North Dakota State Railroad Museum - Mandan, North Dakota.

I found a couple more outside of Livingston Mont. The are still there today used for as storage sheds.

OK, if you say so, but that roof still doesn't look "round" to me. The roof is peaked a bit in the middle, but "round"?

For the PRR, I'd say a Merchandise Service car:

Haven't those already been issued, at least once or more?

I was thinking that cars like the PRR car above, a NYC Pacemaker, or Great Northern car with Rocky the goat, would be great representations of those RRs.

When I first converted to O scale 40 years ago I purchased/built a mix of cars which I thought looked interesting, and colorful.  Over the years my modeling objective has evolved to where I'm now more focused on having the elements of the railroad (locomotives, cars, structures, automobiles, signs, etc) reinforce one another to capture the look and feel of a specific time and place.  After studying  period photos and videos  it became very apparent that the trains I was running on the railroad looked nothing like the prototype late steam era freights on the railroad I model - even though I carefully painted and lettered each car to closely follow a specific prototype.  This led me to sell off almost all the colorful box (and tank) cars and re-populate the roster with  more subtle variations in weathering and body details (sheathing, height, door style, etc).  With recent offerings like the Weaver MILW ribbed side and B&O wagon to box cars, AtlasO steam era classics like the PRR X29, and Lionel PS1 cars it is relatively easy to build a very diverse freight car roster without having to go heavy into brass.  That is not to say one can't have a lot of fun collecting/building an array of interesting prototypes - it's  just no longer my approach to the hobby.

Ed Rappe

 Hey Bob When I was in highschool my class went to the transportation musium.The was a sal cabosse candy apple red.I took some pictures of it.They now have a cabosse in scl.Now thats what it was when I came into this world.I think lionel has some seaboard boxcars.I think kline had some to.Mth has a few boxcars for seaboard.Its not right but seaboard has always hard to find.Despite the fact it was a pretty far size railroad.

streak,

I have plenty (what?!?!?!) of Seaboard rolling stock (most I have either made or repainted), not much representing the other RRs.

Like Ed Rappe, once I started looking at old photographs it became evident there's more than just my favorite RR that needs to be modeled to make it look right.

Studying the Seaboard I found which other RRs had connections, and where some of the commodities they carried came from, such as coal.  Seaboard Air Line had no coal mines on their system so they had to "import" it from other RRs such as Clinchfield, and C&O.  Also, as one of the 2 main south to north RRs on the east coast (the other being ACL) there was bound to be rolling stock from northeastern RRs running on their track (NYC, PRR, WM. etc).  But I don't want to buy just anything with another RRs name on it, I want something that symbolizes that particular RR.

I have only been in the hobby a little over 4 years now and went through a very steep learning curve to get where I am now and still so much more to learn.

My approach has evolved very similiar to Ed's.

At first, I bought anything that appealed to me.  Over time, as I learned more about my particular railroad, PRR, and the era and location I wanted to model - PRR Middle Division near Newport, PA in 1959.  I came to realize that I purchased items that didn't fit very well or not at all and began to jetison them.

I guess knowledge can be too restrictive but now I focus our documented prototypes that have been known to roll through the territory and time period I model.

I also studied the typical distribution of freight car types and foreign roads on the Pennsy.  With that, I have the weaver MILW ribside and B&O wagontop, the Atlas O B&O ARA boxcar (made in far greater number than the wagontop), Atlas O ART reefer (PFE clone), MTH NP reefer (PFE clone), etc., etc.  I will only accept a very limited number of cars that are not very prototypically correct only because I like the car and there is nothing else available.

For modelers of any other road, since the PRR typically owned at least 10% of the entire nation's freight car fleet, one would be remiss not to include a few PRR cars.  With that, I suggest some signature PRR cars like the X-29 (over 29,000 made - Atlas O or brass) and X-31 boxcars (Lionel or brass).  For flatcars, suggest the F41 (Lionel).

For passenger service, there is a host of PRR REA cars either currently or soon to be available.

Hope this helps.

Hot Water,

Round Roof NP lumber box car.  Longer lengths were loaded through end port.

John

Difficult to tell that the roof is "rounded" in THAT photo.

 

A few points of clarification on Lumber doors and NP radial roofs.

Those are NP radial roofs on the box cars pictured above.  The NP was highly partial to their radial roof design on house cars in the wooden freight car era.  The NP radial roof design use a wooden roof structure curved on a long radius.  By avoiding a peak in the middle of the roof and using long curved roof boards that went all the way from one side of the car to the other the NP had a roof that added strength to the car and resisted twisting.

Take a closer look at NP wooden box cars and reefers and you will start noticing the  NP radial roof. 

Lumber doors on the A ends of box cars were common on cars built built prior to WW II for roads serving the Pacific Northwest.  The railroads specified the lumber doors on box cars because a style of wood frame construction common before WW II, balloon framing, required very long lengths of lumber and Northwest mills could supply it. 

Balloon framing requires long lumber because the vertical load bearing members on the exterior of the structure ran full length from the sill to the attic.  That meant that the lumber for the exterior framing of a two or three story building was two or three stories tall.  And that meant that box cars in lumber service needed to be able to be loaded with lengths of lumber longer that the distance between the door opening and the car end.  Lumber wasn't loaded through the lumber door.  Lumber was loaded through the side door and one end of long pieces of lumber could be poked out through the lumber door until the other end cleared the side door opening.

Weaver modeled their new Milwaukee Road 40 foot rib side box cars after the early prototypes right down to the Bettendorf steel lumber door on the A end.  As a Seattle native I particularly like the version with the "Route of the Electrified Olympian" slogan.

Andy Petersen of Petersen Supply deserves special thanks for all his efforts to give us cars based on specific prototypes.  One of my favorites is from the series of 10 box cars that the Great Northern painted up in 1956 to test new color and lettering schemes.  The bright colors and bold lettering earned this series the "Circus Car" nickname.  GN 3249 received a modestly sized GN herald, large slant lettering and what would become GN standard vermilion red.  The yellow journal covers were totally non-standard!

 This is the prototype.

And here is the Petersen model.

This Petersen box car is certainly representative of the Northern Pacific.

And the last cabooses delivered to the Spokane, Portland & Seattle are wonderful representatives of the final days of "The Northwest's Own Railway."

For me it would be the PRR H21a with an N5 Cabin Car.

Norm

I've been reading more on the history of the SAL and I found what connections they had with other RRs:

ACL

Southern

Central Of Georgia

RF&P

C&O

N&W

Virginian

Clinchfield

Durham & Southern

L&N

Georgia

Frisco

IC

FEC

Norfolk Southern

A&D

I should try to at least get a car to represent each of those RRs, but I also know they had traffic from NYC and PRR, and others.  In order to keep things from getting out of control I'll also be looking at the commodities they carried and tailor my purchases to cars that would carry them.  I know I need to get some Fruit Growers Express (FGE) cars as SAL had an interest in that company.

I was cleaning up the shelves and I came across 3 other box cars that just screamed poster child for the real prototype... I still enjoy seeing my walking brakeman Rio Grand cookie box like the one below, just brings back the childhood memories. 

ATSF:  "Map Cars"

Cotton Belt: "Blue Streak" Boxcars.

UP:  "Challenger" express boxes.

Good choices Dominic

I was looking at the 2 photos of the PS1 car I posted and did a double-take when I noticed the doors were different (6-panel and 7-panel).  Then I remembered they changed doors on the car at some point.  Here's the 7-panel variety on the same car:

Since my model railroad is all about the Pennsy, I am suggesting a PRR x29 built in 1926. Here is a photo of an Atlas example.

Nice car Charlie!  I have some PRR cars in HO with the Keystone emblem and always thought they looked cool.

If you want a freight train (or entire roster of freight cars) to be representative of a given time frame one has to do some historical research as to when prototypes were produced (and scrapped)' and when/how railroad, painting and lettering practices evolved.  For example the very nice PRR X29 shown by Charlie is done in a scheme  (shadow keystone type 2) the PRR only began to apply in 1960.  While fine for the diesel years leading up to the PC merger,it would be anachronistic for the Steam to diesel transition era on the PRR or SAL. While some will find this nit picking, I've found prototype research adds another dimension of interest to my favorite hobby.

Ed Rappe

I think you will find the shadow keystone on the X29 boxcar [above] appeared on repainted cars in 1954. The PRR lettering under Pennsylvania is not correct for the rebuild date on the car.

It is easier for me to ignore small stuff like this, rather than to get into a wholesale stripping and repainting program.

Ed,

I'm sure I have cars that shouldn't be on the layout at the same time, just need to do what you suggest to sort them out.

All of Seaboard's steam was gone by the early 50s and they merged with ACL in 1967.  I think I can manage Seaboard just fine, it's the other RRs I need to research.

One thing first on my list is to backdate/retrofit some of my rolling stock, I know some of them have roller bearing trucks when they need friction bearing instead.

Charlie,

I'm going to alternate from steam era to diesel as I see fit.  Picking which pieces of rolling stock to use should be simple and no need to get rid of any as all bases will be covered.  Running no more than 2 trains at a time it should not be difficult.

Charlie

You are correct that the shadow keystone scheme type 1 (SK1) was first introduced in 1954 - but there is a noticeable difference between the SK1 and the later shadow keystone 2 (SK2) scheme.  the SK1 scheme did not have the letters PRR above the car number like your SK2 X29 does.  The change was made by the PRR in response to AAR policy/pressure to make car identification/record keeping easier for novice yard crews by having the road abbreviation on the car side above the car number.

 The good news for steam era O scalers is that AtlasO/Middle Division  did   both the 1930-54 circle keystone scheme(CK1),  the 1954 SK1 shadow keystone scheme, and the Merchandise Service schemes along with several door, end, and brake gear variations in multiple numbers.   The AtlasO SK2 PRR X29 is a great model for 60's era modelers and I suspect would be easy to trade for an earlier variant if era specific modeling is of importance to you.  If not enjoy it as is.

Ed Rappe

Bob and Ed,

If I am not mistaken, the example pic that Charlie posted of the X29 is the "Shadow Keystone Phase 2a" which was used by the Pennsy between 11/1957 to 6/1960.  The next phase was "Shadow Keystone Phase 2as" with the "s" indicating that the dimensional data was vertically stacked.  The Atlas O example doesn't have vertically stacked dimensional data so it must be the "SK2a" scheme.

I am a friend of Nick Seaman, who developed this model, and know that he is meticulous about such details.  I am certain the paint date on the car will corroborate the above.

I also have this car but am at work now and so can't check it for myself.

In any case, between 1954 and 1961, the Pennsy went thru seven different paint scheme changes on boxcars.  Similar changes occurred on other freight car types but not necessarily at the same time as the boxcars.

I have been researching Pennsy freight car and locomotive paint schemes and have developed an abbreviated reference table for all types.  The table is not yet complete but once it is I thought about having it published in The Keystone Modeler and could also share it with other forum members.  My thought was a simplified reference table would help those in deciding wether or not a particular model fit within their modeling era.

Bob

It's hard to tell by Charlie's photo but the X29 paint date is either 5-58 or 9-58.

It is marked P133 9-58

What does P133 denote?

P133 a Pennsy weigh station code.

P133 in particular stands for the Renovo PA shops. 

So this car was repainted, reshopped, and reweighed at Renovo, PA on Sept 1958.

Several websites provide a full listing of all the codes for all railroads and some for all codes used by the Pennsy.

Bob,

Great info and it looks like you have spent a lot of time researching the PRR.  My PRR themed layout is set in 1949 (was '48) and I have been looking for data on PRR freight car details for several years now (I recently bought two PRR Color Guide books but they were for the 60s).  I think the X29 is the ubiquitous PRR boxcar of that era, and I would like to find a resource that lists all the possible paint schemes it was in.  Can you recommend one?

Thanks.

Ron

Three Sources specific to the PRR X29:

1. Railway Prototype Cyclopedia - Volume 24 - $30 - May be hard to find.

2. The Keystone Spring 2010 Vol. 43 No. 1 (published by PRRT&HS) - $14.

3. The Keystone Summer 1988 - Vol. 21, No. 2 (only available thru ebay or back issue dealers).

My recommendation is Item No. 2 above since it is the lowest price and most readily available.

From Jan. 1930 to Jan. 1954, the PRR used the circle keystone (aka ball keystone) and no keystone before that. 

Unless there is photographic evidence to suggest otherwise, I would think that most, if not all, X29's were repainted with the CK scheme by 1948 or 49 since 18-19 years would have passed by the time the CK scheme was adopted; acknowleding though that means painting 29,000 cars in 18-19 years.  So would not rule out a "no keystone" scheme still on the roster.  Atlas O made the CK scheme and don't know if anyone made the NK scheme for this car.  Might be able to find decals.  For 1948-49, I would stick with the CK scheme.

If you are a real stickler about dates, you may want to check the repaint dates on each Atlas O X29 car to make sure it agrees with your timeframe.  Some cars with CK scheme may have repaint dates between 1950 and 1954.

JDs Trains may still have some Atlas O cars.  If not, there are still a few around here and there and on ebay.

Hope this helps.