MTH 2015 Vol 2 vs Williams #40399 N&W Class J

 

 

Williams can be confusing; the company has been around so long and has multiple

incarnations that when you say "Williams J" you can mean one of two very different

and unrelated steam locomotives (not to mention the multiple types of Williams

NYC Hudsons, scale, brass or die-cast, which also had the "J" class designation by 

their real-world owners).

 

- There was a brass, 1:48 scale Williams N&W "J" class 4-8-4, offered in the 90's, well-made and executed, conventional, of course, and can still be found for very moderate prices. Smoke and headlight only. If you can run one of these (072 required, I believe), it's the one to get.

 

- Sub-scale J's are/were available from Lionel, Wms and MTH. Avoid the Lionel altogether -

it's old-school AC motored. The MTH RK (NOT the "Bantam" one) is the way to go.

An altogether better model than the Wms and runs better, too. Not 1:48, but a very

impressive piece. The Wms is just a copy (with modern internals) of the old PW Lionel

piece - little PRR tender and all. The nice RK one is properly proportioned.

 

- Lionel also makes a beautiful full-scale J (I have one); now THAT'S quite a loco. I think

that it will do under 072...?

If you want a Williams scale "J" look for the "Crown Edition" brass engines made by Samhongsa for Williams.

 

I bought one last year and it's a beaut, slowest starting engine I have now that I installed PS2.  Mine has a bit of a bind in it but not so bad I don't run it, I just need to investigate it more.

 

The PS2 install calls for some "surgery" to be done so the circuit board can be installed on the rear of the engine and a tach tape needs to be done for the flywheel plus a mount for the tach itself, all things you'd have to do to any non-MTH engine if you want PS2.  I chose PS2 because all the other systems need a cam on an axle to get the chuff if I'm not mistaken.

Gilly, D500, Bob,

Thank you for the advice.  Yes, Weak is a good word for the sound.  I think I will wait before deciding.  If I got this one, I may be more disappointed than if I don't have one at all.  Both the RailKing and the Crown are certainly work a look, and see.

Thank you

The original MTH RK J 611 is what made me change from HO to O.

I knew nothing about scale vs traditional size O trains and figured it was scale it was so huge! It does run super.....I don't have a WbB J 611 but I can't imagine it runs better than the MTH. 

I later bought the brass scale Williams J and will say it is great too......just depends on what you are looking for. O31 and runs as well as it looks??? MTH RK. Scale J O72? Williams brass......one went the other day for $260....almost bid myself!! 

Dave,

I was the same as you when I first switched from HO to O.  I thought these locomotives were all scale.  Dave Minarick showed me the difference between the Imperial and Premier SD70ACe.  The non scale reminds me of selective compression that we use all the time for structures, scenery, and even yards and sidings.  I have no problem with it.  Helps me run O trains in a small space.

 

Sleeping on it, I will hold off on the #40399 and give a look see on the RK and brass,  I told the other guys I might do.

 

Thank you too for the advice!!

Personally, I would second those who would tell you to look at the MTH RK Imperial version.  The WBB version is nice if you want a postwar replica without paying postwar price.  But the RK Imperial version has modern sound, speed control, and typically terrific MTH paint and detailing for I am guessing around $400 or so with the typical discount.  I am going to guess that is north of the WBB piece by a few hundred dollars but I think it is worth the premium. 

Yes that is more, but still not bad.  I am going to do some looking at the RailKing.  Maybe someone will have one available once I save a few pennies!  ;-)
Thank you!

Mark, I got mine off Ebay (Buy Now) at a fair price ($450) and installed a PS2 upgrade kit ($170+-), total was less than $650 including shipping, not a bad price for a brass engine that runs fine (even with a slight bind hum) under DCS/PS2.

 

They're presently going for a bit more ($150 is a bit, right?) but I'd keep an eye on them and see if one goes below $500.

 

I also got a Williams brass USRA 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 at even better prices.  I made mods to the 2-8-2 to match a Seaboard class Q3, but the 4-6-2 stayed 99% stock USRA as an ACL engine and is quickly growing to be the favorite-looking engine of my fleet.

Bob,

Thats a better price than I was expecting for brass.  Thank you very much for explaining further.  It's something to look into also.  I'm in no hurry, so I will investigate both options.

Thank you.

So I see MTH must have been reading this topic.  I see in the 2015 Vol 2 catalog, MTH is offering the N&W J in both RailKing and Premier.  Well, im sure the Premier is fabulous, but the RailKing is all I could possibly spend.  I'm tossing around the idea of submitting a pre order with one of our Forum Sponsors.  Since I realize it will show up long after predicted, I should have plenty of time to save up the money. ;-)

 

thanks to to all who have responded so far.

With 611 being restored as we speak and in service in 2015 a reissue is a no brainer. 

If the Rail King Imperial N&W J is the same casting as older models, I think it is, it almost looks scale.  But a used RK J with rail sounds, if you run conventional, are deals right now....maybe half what a new RK unit sells for. Just keep your options open. 

A Williams J is a good bet IF you just want a conventional run engine.

Street price or store would be much less than the MTH. However True Blast is not the greatest and the smoke output is stingy. On the plus side, they do run good.

Jim

Mark,

        As you mentioned liking the MTH premier J. Take a close look if they are doing a "speciality set" this comes with passenger cars. For a little more than a stand alone engine.

 

I have a PS2 version that came with 4 cars that I picked up a dealer on sale for $1k.

When you work out buying the RK version and matching cars the price can add up.

 

Depends if you have the curves for the scale version and want to save up a bit more.

 

Nick

Dave and Jim,

I presently have 2 PS2 engines at the present and one DCS TIU, but the TIU is in the MTH maintenance department because it died under warranty.  I would like to move forward with DCS, but if I have trouble with it like I have had the first year, I may go to conventional.  I have 4 conventional engines, but was hoping to finally make the jump to command control.  So yes, it would be a good idea to not lock myself in, especially until I get the TIU back and make sure I can learn to use it to my satisfaction.

 

Nick,

you have an excellent point about the J and its consist if it is a set.  With my funds, I usually have to purchase one piece at a time. The J is the most important to me, but granted, it would look a little silly pulling my Madison NYC coaches Until I could buy N&W.

 

Thank you for your input.

Mark, you got mail.

Thanks Bob!

Mark,

 

Not sure if you're looking for the RK set that comes with 3 passenger cars too, but if you are, we have this set. I think it's a 2009 set?  We got it two years ago brand new. Probably 30 total scale miles of use on it as my sister bought our son the Premier version for that same Christmas. Not in any hurry to sell it, but if this is something in which you would be interested, I would consider it.  I can tell you its a great runner, very good sound and the best smoker Out of all my MTH locos - it puts out a ridiculous amount of smoke. If interested, just drop me an email whenever.  

 

Peter

If I was in the market for a semi-scale Class J, I would go for one of the latest versions of the MTH Railking J because of the tender being a good rendition of the real thing.

 

I have never liked the goofy looking tender from Lionel or the Williams copy that looks nothing like a J tender at all. Early MTH Railking J's also had this goofy looking tender, however, they (MTH) are to be commended for making the tender change a number of years ago!

Mark, when I was in Nicholas Smith last weekend they had an older (I think late 90's) MTH Railking J with 6 aluminum streamlined passenger cars for $450.

 

Bill

Thanks Peter, Jim, and Bill!

Yes the RailKing would need to be the way to go for me.  I don't envision ever having O72 curves for the more scale versions.  I don't see the one at Nicholas Smith's Web site, but that doesn't mean they don't have it.  A set may be better, then I would be sure I have proper paint match.  I may give them a call.  Thank you everyone.

This is a question, so don't jump on me.

Isn't the RK set engine short and stubby looking as compared to the Lionel sized Williams?

MTH has 2 versions, the full sized Railking, and then the Bantam version. The Railking is a copy of Lionel's postwar J. The Bantam is a smaller "junior" sized one, could that be the one your thinking of? It does seem on the Railking one the tender is a little smaller then the Lionel.

 

Bill

Mark, if you have ever been to the store it was on the display layout. Like it had just gotten there, maybe even that day. Not certain how well they keep up adding stuff like that to the website. It was a beautiful set, the Railking version with 6 aluminum cars!

 

Bill

Bantam was the one that came to mind..

I've always wondered if the "Bantam" J would be closer to a K2a with a 2-wheel trailing truck, making it a 4-8-2?

Mark, I bought my Brass Scale Williams J a few years ago from a fellow club member. One time he was a Williams dealer, and has many, many Williams Samhongsa engines. Once a year he parts with some, during our Thanksgiving Local Train Show.

 

I don't know what he has, what price he would want, and you would have to work that out between yourselves.

If you email me to, I can get his home phone number to Ya!..................Brandy

 

PS I gave $150.00 for mine bout 2 years ago, and he had installed the Phoenix Sound system, but it is conventional. Check out the forum, as one member had a film strip on a new PS2.0 conversion he did, on one of the Williams Brass Scale J's, with 4 chuffs per revolution, and that conversion made that engine!!!

 

Mine, like I said is conventional operation, but sounds great.............Brandy!

 

 

 

 

Brandy,

I sent you an e-mail.  Thank you.

 

Bill,

I was in the store, but it was over 25 years ago.  I live on the other side of the state, and that was the only time I was ever east of Lancaster.  It does sound like it is a beauty.

 

The larger of the two RailKings is what I have seen.  It is only about 4 or 5 inches shorter than the scale, I think.  I could put 072 curves in for one loop in the 12x12 room if I ever get our 24-year old daughter's boyfriend to marry her and take all her stuff!  ;-)  The 72 could be the express passenger track, and everything else for freight.

OGR sponsor Trainworld has the WbB N&W J on sale $199.......not a bad deal at all!!! Just a fyi.....

Dave,

I got that email too.  That has been under consideration.  The scale Js would be great, but I may never be able to acquire space to have 072 curves.  I don't want a shelf queen, I want to run it.  At this time, I only have two engines that I would want to run on the hi rail layout I envision.  I also have 2 postwar, 1 MPC that is a bit rough, and a low end PE for Christmas.  The Williams by Bachmann #40399 may be the ticket if I can fir a PS2 in it sometime in the future.  I love the modern day sounds.

 

Thank you for pointing out the TW deal!