Williams UP Challenger

I believe it is undersize.  Otherwise a nice model.  Some detail left off, such as cab roof handrails.

 

edit: this comment is about the 2-rail Challenger.

Hello ,

I posted in hopes someone owns a 2 rail Challenger from Williams and what the minimum radius they have run it on.

I have no interest in what a 3 rail version does or is or runs on , if I did I would have posted there.

Thanks

I would be surprised if it's 072" radius. Are you sure it's not 072 curve which is 072 diameter which is 036" radius? Note the brass Williams was made in Korea by samhongsa. The drive train is robust just that the details are minimal  for that time frame it was built.

I posted this  question here in a" 2 rail " category  , I am amazed at how many toy train people can't comprehend the word radius . I would have thought that the worlds most heavily trafficked model train website, someone would have a Williams 2 rail Challenger , and have run one on various radii . I do not have track on my layout at present , and trying see if a 60 inch radius would work . The box states 72 inch but I know sometimes that can be overstated .

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmm maybe it's your delivery!!!!!. What I have been told whether 2 or 3 rail, radius is the measurement of the curve. So if the box says it needs a 72" curve and your asking if it can operate on a 60" curve, I think you've answered your own question. In my experience steam engines need a lot of room and minimums are a must, that's why I only have a couple and all the rest are GP's or SD'S, good luck anyway 

 

Williams didn't get its start as a 2-rail manufacturer, so it's unlikely that their Challenger was a strictly 2-rail model that was modified for 3-rail. It's most likely the other way around, since the entire point was to make an articulated for 3-railers, who at the time couldn't be expected to have anything larger than 36" radius curves. So although the Williams box or ad may have said 72" radius and not diameter, it's more than possible that they confused the two or didn't catch their mistake.

 

I still have a letter from by Andy Edelman way back when he worked for Williams stating that they took the Samhongsa engineers' word verbatim about the 72" minimum diameter (36" radius) of all their large brass steamers and didn't actually test them on anything less until I asked them about it (possibly via a letter I wrote to OGR (then O-Scale Railroading) that was forwarded to them), finding that some of the eight-drivered locos were good down to a 54" diameter (27" radius). But the articulateds were all strictly 72" diameter. So, I find it doubtful that their 2-rail Challenger would have needed double the radius of the 3-rail one. I'd feel safe running one on a 60" radius (0-120 to the three-rail crowd) based on the assumption that it's just a 3-rail version with 2-rail wheelsets and wiring.

 

---PCJ

Oh, good.  He is irritated with Williams.  I was afraid it was me.

Well...don't know if was necessary to bash "toy train people" about whether they can comprehend what "radius" means.....but.....I believe PCJ above is correct in that it is highly likely that something less than 72" inch radius would be needed to run that particular locomotive since essentially it was a 3-rail model made to run on 72" diameter curves and likely the only thing done to it was to retrofit it with 2-rail flanged wheels.....

 

Alan

 Only think I can offer is from my MTH Alleghenies. They do the tighter radius curves pretty well. I have a feeling that 60" radius would not be a problem. I think that's my mainline radius (close?) and they go tighter even into the engine yard.

 I have to wonder if it's not scale?? I was thinking it was.

 Let me know if you decide to sell that. I have been considering a large UP steamer for the grandkids to enjoy on my 2 rail layout. They go nuts over my G scale UP. They tolerate my love for the Alleghenies, but still want UP??? sada frata rada bratta....

look at this Big boy's curve size:

http://mthtrains.com/content/22-3577-2

Unit Measures:35 x 2 7/8 x 4 1/8

•   Operates On 54" Radius Curves

 

their challenger states the 72"!!

http://mthtrains.com/content/20-3244-2

• Unit Measures:30 3/4" x 2 1/2" x 4"
• Operates On 72" Radius Curves

Hmmm, their 3r Allegheny states O72!

http://mthtrains.com/content/20-3505-1

Unit Measures: 32 1/2” x 2 3/4” x 4 1/4”         

• Operates On O-72 Curves         

 

I guess no one has owned one or has one except myself . It does lack some detail but the driveline is very much scale and the sprung drivers as well as the grey paint scheme is flawless . Original paperwork shows a price of $1995.00 , with early buy discount to $1495 . This was back in 1992 . I have seen them for $700 . A great candidate for super detailing and turning into a modern version of UP 3985 , with the tender converted to oil.

For what it is worth  I had the same vintage Class A N&W and changed the motor to a Pitman ballbearing type with large flywheel and made a very simple modification to the gear tower , it ran like a Swiss watch .

Which I plan to do the same modification with this engine along with super detailing .

Please post pictures as you progress.  I love the quality of work you do and I have no doubt this will be the best Challenger on the forum!

 

Look forward to watching this one.

I purchased several of these engines when they were first available.  However I never ran on less than 72" radius.