Wrong ES44 in the box.

Good Day Ben,

 

Any pictures this evening? Thanks! 

 

Regards,

Frank

 

The pictures are of poor quality - sorry.  I spent my photo time trying to figure out why the stork delivered the wrong baby...

 

Ben

Congrats Ben!
Do the CP units look like they've been hot waxed or dull finish?

John

To my eye they have more of a dull finish than a glossy one. 

Ben.

I think Lionel made a big mistake with the headlight placement on these engines. BNSF and CP have their headlights in the lower nose position. Talk about research! 

I don't think it was a question of research because a number of people mentioned the headlight position or wrote to Lionel to ask them to consider that most ES44AC locomotives (and probably most SD70ACe locomotives, too) have their headlights in the nose. It was a question of convenience and cost. Painting up Norfolk Southern bodies in other liveries without modifying the cab was quick (even though it took a year!) and inexpensive. They are beautiful locomotive models. They just look all wrong and very unlike the actual locomotives I see every day, sort of like modeling a 1957 Chevrolet with quad headlights because the headlights were available from 1958 Chevy models.

 

I suspected as much, and that is why I cancelled my preorders for two BNSF engines. My fervent hope is that Lionel will spend the dollars for molds to make accurate cabs for their 2015 SD70ACe and ES44AC versions. Everything else on the engines would be unchanged, except the numbers. This would also be relatively inexpensive, and Lionel could rightly claim them to be new models. If they were to get the headlights right, I would reorder the "new" BNSF ES44AC  engines and maybe even a UP SD70ACe.

@ TOKELLY  You are absolutely correct. Details matter, especially at the prices the mfgs. are getting.

IF there's going to be 2015 SD70's and ES44's...

 

Rusty

Rusty, that's why I said that it is my hope. Lionel has fixed problems with new issues of the product; for example, the wheelsets on the later runs of U33C and SD70ACe locomotives and the still-too-high cylindrical hoppers.  All new tooling is expensive, and it would appear that Lionel is a bit gunshy in introducing new S gauge products, as the mechanical reefer would indicate.  Lesser investments in modifications of existing products could increase sales at lower risk. New U33C models that run AC (Legacy)/DC and have the sprung pilot used by the most recent diesels would be one example. Cylindrical hoppers with lower bolsters and user-replaceable wheels are another. And a simple replacement of a cab for the modern diesels would also entail less investment and risk than the introduction of an entirely new locomotive, as nice as that would be. Lionel is learning, but the annual product cycle is frustratingly long. 

Shouldn't the dealer take the mis-labeled engine back and exchange it for as BNSF?

While I'll still purchase new Flyer if it suits me, until proven otherwise, I've lowered my expectations that they'd make any significant chances to existing products.

 

Lionel hasn't listened to the O Gaugers for years regarding the mounting of streamline passenger car windows from the outside instead of the inside, so why would they listen to a much smaller customer base about headlights?

 

Plus, it appears that Lionel's not doing nose headlights in the O Gauge version anymore, either.

 

There was an excellent dialog with Lionel prior to the release of the SD70's, since then, it's been pretty much a brick wall.

 

Lionel's made some great stuff over the years, but they've also had some equally great flubs.  It's almost as if they're a different company every year.

 

I would love to be proven wrong in my expectations.

 

Rusty

I know my LHS would.

 

Rusty

nassau should be making this right,since they sold it,and represent lionel.for the amount of $$ you spent, i would put the dealer on the hook.-jim

Absolutely.  If you buy a pair of Nikes from Zappos and the wrong pair come in the box, Zappos is not going to send you to Nike to rectify that mistake - neither should Nassau. Figuratively speaking of course.  

I recall one of the forum members received a Pere Marquette tender when he ordered the new Black Polar Express Berk, so he had to send just the tender back to Lionel for them to send him the correct Polar Express tender.

Easy fix, but unnecessary frustration for the consumer.  It's just yet another example of poor quality control overseas... and stuff being rushed out the door.

David

Agreed that the dealer should be doing this and not the individual.  Not the individual's fault and should be them putting the pressure on Lionel to make it correct even if Lionel will do it in the end.

I'm shocked that Nassau Hobbies would do this to a customer who just spent a ton of $$$$.

 

I purchased a Lionel Legacy UP 4-12-2 from Nassau and it arrived with broken truck wheel bearings - they sent me replacements within a week.

 

You ordered the BNSF units from Nassau (not Lionel) and paid Nassau (not Lionel) so Nassau has the obligation to make this right - sending you to Lionel is just wrong.

Was the inner box opened?  Usually you can tell when an engine has been factory packed or if it has ever been opened prior to you receiving it.

 

Ed

Ben,

 

I've been  looking at your ES44 pictures.  The CP units look great, but the paint on the nose of the BNSF unit looks weird, like the right side of the nose angle is black while the right is orange.

 

Is this just a trick of the lighting, hopefully?

 

Rusty

It's just poor camara photography. The whole hood deck is black.

Lionel told me that this is happening more often.  I recently ordered a Pennsylvania Heritage Caboose and it arrived in a Reading Caboose box.  I called Lionel and they shipped me the correct box for free.  Tyler. 

Agreed.  I would have assumed a quick call to Nassau would rectify the situation.  If not, a quick call to the credit card company would likely take care of it.  I had a very similar similar situation a while back with another product.  CC companies take was simple:  misrepresentation of product, and I didn't buy it directly from the manufacturer - I bought it from the vendor.   It was the VENDOR that ultimately had to take it up with the manufacturer, which is as it should be.   

 

Unfortunately sometimes it comes down to who has the bigger stick.   The credit card companies have an ENORMOUS stick 

 

I'm still hedging that Nassau will take care of this.  Reputation is just too good....

I'm glad.  I'd hate to think if that got screwed up, too.

 

Rusty

I certainly appreciate the words of encouragement and advise. When I spoke with Nassau hobbies they informed me they had no spare BNSF ES44 engines left. They did not offer to refund my money but I did not ask either. The outer packing container did have packing tape on it that didn't necessarily match the other side of the box that was also taped up. I guess it's possible it was opened up stateside but I don't know. Due to a heavy work week I have not been able to reach out to Lionel to inquire and see what they have to say (I have not yet even been able to even run the engines that I received) It did seem odd to me that an authorized Lionel dealer would tell me to call Lionel about this issue.  I have to admit that I've given some thought to keeping the Union Pacific engine and ordering the additional engine I need for BNSF from Charles Ro. I did not initially ordered another Union Pacific engines because I had several UP SD70 units and only one BNSF SD70. 

I will find out what Lionel says and report back.  I hope everyone that has the ES44s are having a good time with them.

Rusty, no BNSF ES to keep your SD70 company? 

Ben.

Mark

This was part of my first order from Nassau hobbies. I normally use Charles Ro but decided to give Nassau try dude all the good information they put out on the form about what the manufacturers are up to. I spent over 2k with them this year (way more than my annual train budget).  If things don't work out with this I will just take my money back to Ro.

Ben

I could make the comment that, judging from the pictures, Lionel put all "wrong" ES44AC locomotives in their boxes--Norfolk Southern engines just painted to look like BNSF, CP, UP, and so forth. But I won't make that comment.

Good Day Gentlemen,

 

To my eyes, the yellow strips on the cab side does not look correct to me. I hope I'm wrong. BNSF is one of my favorite railroads.

 

Regards,

Frank

Just back from vacation. Of course you can return the diesel for a full refund. As Chris told you we are sold out of these units that were offered on closeout. Sorry for the problem. Charlie...

Sorry again, I was confused the ES's are the new ones and were not closed out. A call to Lionel at Customer Service might help as they were BTO and Lionel is sold out. Sorry for the extra confusion...jet lag!

Thought about it.  Maybe later.

 

Rusty

Can we ALL just backup and straighten this out?

 

Ben called us and explained what happened with his engine.

 

We explained that the Engines were BTO and we did not have one to replace or swap out with the mislabeled box/engine.

 

We explained that we would be more than happy to have him return the engine for a FULL refund. Ben did not want to return the engine at the time.

 

We explained that if he did not want to return the engine that he would have to call Lionel to see what they could do as again we did not have one to swap, Lionel was out of stock and since they were BTO would not be getting more in.

 

We never "dropped the ball" or left any customer hung out to dry. Our customers come first and do everything in our power to try and fix or accommodate any issue that would come up.

 

 

 

 

That BNSF unit is sharp. I hope you get it all figured out .

"I think that's where the ball dropped"

 

    I think building to order is where the ball has been dropped. Why limit the number of folks that want to buy your product, not everyone want to buy on a certain deadline so over a period of time sales could be greatly increased if there was product to buy.....DaveB

Again, there was no "Ball Dropped".

 

As I explained "Lionel was out of stock and since they were BTO would not be getting more in."

 

We did check the with Lionel and they told us straight away that as they were BTO, they do not have any "Extra Stock". Which is why we offered to take the engine back for a full refund.

 

The catalog did state in large, friendly lettering that the ES44's would be "Limited Quantities Produced."

 

So, whether BTO or BTUURI (Built to use up remaining inventory,) someone, somewhere out there has a UP ES44 in a BNSF shipping box.

 

Rusty

People, there comes a point -- especially with mail-order business, but occasionally even when dealing with the LHS -- that calling Lionel is the proper solution.  I don't know how Lionel plans to stock parts and what-not for BTO items... but it's possible they'll have the appropriate replacement shell for the OP.  So a call to Lionel customer service seems in order, since no "extra stock" items are available via the normal sales/distribution channel... short of dealers hunting for one and swapping inventory.  But honestly, the call to Lionel CS may be the fastest route to go at this point.

 

A couple of years ago, I purchased the last of a non-BTO item from one my LHS's.  It was a Canadian Pacific powered B-unit, and the letters "CANADIAN PACIFIC" were printed on the shell at about a 5-degree angle!    Not even close to horizontal.  The LHS would have gladly exchanged it for another, but they didn't have anymore.  I called Lionel... they requested I ship the B-unit back to them... and they subsequently returned it to me with a replacement shell with properly applied lettering.  All's well that ended well.

 

David

I haven't seen an explanation of a discrepancy that Frank Swafford noted in earlier post. The Lionel BNSF ES44AC locomotive as delivered looks much like the depiction in the 2014 catalogue, but the actual BNSF ES44AC locomotives appear to have three yellow bands instead of the two that appear on the Lionel versions. (The Lionel BNSF SD70ACe locomotives show two bands of yellow, and that seems to be the way BNSF painted them.) The elimination of one band in the Lionel versions makes the cover of the battery boxes (?) look odd.