York and European Trains: Some Observations

Neat stuff.....look forward to more....

Hi Eliot,

Am glad to hear that you enjoyed your trip over there.  Yes, the Brits love their trains and their history in general.  

As for O Gauge British model railroad information you might want to look at subscribing to the:

http://www.gauge0guild.com/

Wonder stuff in that British magazine.  Oh, 2 rail though.  But you will enjoy the content.  And once a year they have a British O Scale National.

Steve

It is interesting that railroads--responsible for building this nation of ours--are treated as second-class citizens in our own country while in so many areas overseas they are viewed as valued treasures and a still-significant means of transportation.

I love the way the Brits, Europeans, and others, take such pride in keeping their motive power and rolling stock--old and new--in such pristine condition.

I love British and European steam from the mid 20th century - Nigel Gresley and Andre Chapelon, etc.  What surprised me when I first visited York and other RR places in the UK and the Continent, was how small these famous, fast locos were compared to American iron.  The A4 and A3 and some of the Coronation class, etc., were noticeably smaller than the J1 Hudson (by about 30-50% in weight and tractive effort, etc.), and the J1 was not a big boy (pun intended) among US locos.  Even Chapelon's lone 242.A - a 4-8-4 modified from an ETAT 4-8-2 - and the supposed "most powerful steam loco in Europe" (probably true, after a fashion) - was smaller than most big Northerns in the US, and down at least 15-20% in power from the most powerful US locos.  This isn't to take anything away from this in terms of glamour or engineering greatness - the Mallard A4 does still own the official land speed record for steam locos.  But when it comes to the US reputation for making things BIG, a visit to York makes you realize how we got it.

I, too, have had a lifelong fascination with European trains, especially British and German steam, even to the point of getting whatever Hornby, Marklin and Piko HO stuff I can find at a reasonable price, because I love the look of them!  One of my favorites, which is outside the British and German arena, is my Bachmann HO Orient Express set.  The color and style is amazing!  Luckily my daughter loves Harry Potter, so that was a perfect excuse to get the Lionel and Bachmann Hogwarts Express sets!

Does anyone know if the line in Britain, I think called The Era of Steam, is still running?  I've only seen pictures and video of it, but that's one of the Heritage Lines that has everything down to how it ran in it's original period, right down to the personnel dressed for the period and the stations restored!

I do love the US steam and visiting as many railroads as I can, but I think it's the general American style of tearing down the old to build something new.  In Britain or most areas in Europe you can go into a house, office or hotel and the inside can be up to date but the exterior is 300 years old easily!  There is a greater preservation movement over there than here.

It's a shame it isn't a bigger thing here in the US, as it would really make a difference in seeing our history still standing and running.

Eliot GREAT STORY!!! Thanks for sharing.

I just have to comment on the Engineer's picture...I noticed his eye brow was raised but I wonder what had happened... Maybe a "Bloody" phone call from RICH to give him fair warning who he was dealing with.

I'm so glad you went to York. You could spend months in the UK exploring heritage railways. Hope you and Ginny have a ball.

Just got back from the York museum and it was absolutely PACKED with visitors. Beautiful trains and an exceptional design to integrate the work areas, display areas, and the model trains. Well worth the trip.

The Dwight D Eisenhower was there from the US Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin - and it looked like it was in top shape. Maybe it spent time in their shops getting prepared.

We truly enjoyed our visit to the York museum and the Gloucestershire Railway.

Both are elegant and dripping with history and heritage. My impression of European trains is changed forever. Do go if you have the chance.

Scrapiron

Scrap,

Try to find copies of Hornby and Model Rail magazines when you're in a bookstore there. Both are excellent. If you think the 1:1 guys do it right, you need to see how well they scenic their layouts. Go to Hatton's in Liverpool if you can.

Does this mean the Munoz Lines will have a European division?

I took photos of all three restored A4's that were still there on July 19. The Mallard, the Dominion of Canada and the Dwight Eisenhower. All were gleaming and gorgeous. My laptop computer is slower than molasses so I will post ASAP.

Scrappy

Scher - their gleaming paint and trim remind me of the Southern Crescent1401 loco in the Smithsonian.  It could not have been easy to keep any loco painted like that is such pristine conditions - I suppose the streamlining shroud helped a bit though. But any way you look at it - probably required a lot of maintenance time. 

I've only seen the one A4 (Mallard) although some of the Coronation and hall class I saw were just as polished. 

sounds like someone will be appropriating funds to some new engines. I musy say that two members of the TMB model train club purchased and ran the French and German engines and both a fine specimens with DCS sounds in natuve tongue.

CHEERS

Steve

"

It is interesting that railroads--responsible for building this nation of ours--are treated as second-class citizens in our own country while in so many areas overseas they are viewed as valued treasures and a still-significant means of transportation.

 "

One reason for the last point is that the UK is about the size of some of our smaller states like Massachusetts, so railroads make a lot of sense.  Distances of a few hundred miles at most are impractical for air travel, but ideal for railroads.

Railroads are an afterthought in this country, I believe, because they are not involved in every citizen's life to any degree (except maybe on the coasts, but even there...).  They are dinosaurs as far as most people are concerned, about as interesting as the interstate highway system because they are used only for freight.

In contrast, as most know, European and British railways are still vital parts of the passenger transport system.  Europeans and Brits, in addition to walking and bicycling places, take trains frequently for local, regional and long distance travel.  Simply not true in the USA for the last half century or so. I think that accounts for the difference in interest in part.

The other issue is that Europeans, particularly the Brits, take their culture and history very seriously indeed.  They are simply more interested in their past than Americans as a generalization.  It's an integral part of their way of life.  They are more likely to live where they and their ancestors lived, unlike Americans, who move around a great deal, which lessens ties to their own community in some ways. Europeans and Brits rarely tear ancient buildings down, but rather repurpose them.  It's a different attitude towards the past and the environment.  Americans are more interested in "new."  Not bad or good, but different outcomes in terms of the interest level in historical preservation.

My thanks to all of the contributors to this thread. I agree with everything that has even said, particularly the comments made above by Landsteiner. The comments really are absolutely correct.

I will work hard to process the rest of the photos and video. My laptop is just overwhelmed. We'll be home soon and will get it done ASAP. 

That's a very nice write-up, Eliot.  Thanks for sharing your experience with us.  I hope to travel in the UK and Ireland year after next, and will be sure to visit the railway museums.

No British stock will be forthcoming for the Panhandle and Santa Fe, although I would be very interested to crawl through all their museum diesels and see what I missed by being a Locomotive Engineer instead of an Engine Driver.  Trains had a couple of articles about 50 years ago that sparked my interest in British trains.

My contribution to Eliot's thread -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YblqWGmIYTg

Rick

Scrapiron, so pleased to hear you enjoyed yourself.  York on its own is an amazing place to visit.  Add to that the museum and one could dedicate an entire visit justin York.  

I lived in England for 7 years, moved back to the U.S. a couple years ago.  I never took a single day I lived there for granted.  To be surrounded by so much history rleated to my 2 favorite past times, trains and fly fishing, was a true blessing.  

I was surprised though that the UK, despite relying heavily on the railways for public transport, did not operate them more efficiently and with better equipment.  Very rarely did my commute to work in London or the home counties of Berkshire or Surrey ever end in an on-time arrival to my destination.  Not to mention the state of most 'coach' class passenger cars Left much to be desired.  Compared to say, the Netherlands whose passenger trains are usually spotless inside and out and who adhere as strictly to timetables as Japanese bullett trains.  Nevermind, I was usually busy gazing out the window and enjoying the ride.  My wife, bless her heart, who is English and grew up riding British trains all her life, thought I was nuts to get excited everytime I opted to take a train to work instead of the car.  At $9 per gallon at the time for petrol, the savings alone was reason for excitment.  

Good post. Glad you had a good time at York. The 4-6-0 is a GWR loco I think it's a Hall Class. That's the same as Lionel's Hogwarts loco.

The whole UK preserved railway scene came about really by accident. We had the Beeching report that closed a considerable amount of the UK rail network. It also got rid of steam with what in hindsight was undue haste.

 A chap who owned a scrap yard in South Wales bought a large number of steam locos from British Rail. However he had large numbers of wagons (boxcars etc.) that were easier to cut up than the locos. So he left the locos.

 Next thing people started buying the  disused lines but had a limited number of locos to run on them. The scrap yard owner was only to pleased to sell the engines as it saved him from expending time and labour cutting them up. The rest as they say is history.

Best Regards

Nick

It's so nice to see and read about folks who like the European trains. Ginny and I have been riding about in our manual transmission car, steering wheel on the right and driving on the left side. After several heart stopping experiences and fuel at $8 per gallon, we look forward to the right side of the road. 

We might not miss the driving but we will certainly miss the trains, history and the wonderful people. The Queen would not grant us an audience. I guess she was busy with her great grandson.

Scrappy

Try driving a left hand drive manual car here! LOL 

 As for fuel that's why I rent the biggest gas gussler I can when in the US. 

You can always tell the Brit at the fuel station in the US, he has a big smile!

Nick

She tweeted me this morning that she was sorry to have missed a visit with you folks, Scrappy.  

Time to return to the U.S., though.  I believe you have some articles to work on.