Your thoughts?
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I assume you mean to members only. Do you think the vendors would agree?
pgrande posted:Your thoughts?
since you brought up the subject, tell us your thoughts about closing it......
Having just been to the YORK meet on Friday I can say that it was a little depressing. Attendance seemed to be low. And for my interests there wasn't much to see (in the dealer hall department.) Also not having all the manufacturers there was a downer but I knew that going in. I think the meet needs to be cut back to only once a year and held in October. I don't think opening it to the public matters one way or another. Although, I feel like "the public" in this instance are families interested in seeing layouts as opposed to "train people" who would probably be in the TCA already. Walking around the blue hall with my dad who I brought as a guest, he remarked that "most everyone in here right now including me is going to be dead in 10-15 years." I looked around and had to agree. That is also something the TCA and Eastern Division is going to have to contend with in the short term future.
I would disagree that it should be a totally closed meet.
If the public sales help make is worthwhile for the dealers to go to York, I see this as a win for everyone!
Jim
jd-train posted:I would disagree that it should be a totally closed meet.
If the public sales help make is worthwhile for the dealers to go to York, I see this as a win for everyone!
Jim
But that point is under debate, to the best of my knowledge.
For years, the cry from dealers was to let the public in, so they could experience the meet. That has now happened for the dealer halls over the last few meets, but this is the meet where several importers and magazine companies decided to not attend, so apparently the public did not enhance their bottom line enough to balance the decline due to other factors.
So whether it helped is debatable. As J611 mentioned, the demographic remains the same. That factor cannot be altered much by admitting the public, it would seem.
The (sad, but true) joke among me and my dealer and some other colleagues that socialize at York is that "20 years ago, when I joined (shortly after graduating college and having a real job), I was one of the youngest members of the TCA. It's now 20+ years later, and I am still one of the youngest members of the TCA." 
-Dave
I'm hoping to go to York for the first time in the fall as a guest; I have some interest in joining the TCA but it'll have to make financial sense for me to do so. I'm also hoping that there's a decent amount of younger members in the group; nothing against the older demographic but it's always nice to have some people who I have age in common with as well.
How many of these threads do we need??? There are already plenty but at least if you are going to participate in this one, keep it on topic with the reasons why the York meet should be closed (assuming OP means member's only)....
Dave45681 posted:jd-train posted:I would disagree that it should be a totally closed meet.
If the public sales help make is worthwhile for the dealers to go to York, I see this as a win for everyone!
Jim
But that point is under debate, to the best of my knowledge.
For years, the cry from dealers was to let the public in, so they could experience the meet. That has now happened for the dealer halls over the last few meets, but this is the meet where several importers and magazine companies decided to not attend, so apparently the public did not enhance their bottom line enough to balance the decline due to other factors.
So whether it helped is debatable. As J611 mentioned, the demographic remains the same. That factor cannot be altered much by admitting the public, it would seem.
The (sad, but true) joke among me and my dealer and some other colleagues that socialize at York is that "20 years ago, when I joined (shortly after graduating college and having a real job), I was one of the youngest members of the TCA. It's now 20+ years later, and I am still one of the youngest members of the TCA."
-Dave
I guess that I am struggling with coming up with a reason why it would be bad for the dealer halls to be open to the public?
Having the halls open to the public at worst would have no impact on the vendors. Anything else but worse case, would be a plus for them in terms of sales. Even a modest $1,000 - $2,000 in additional sales might be enough to make their attendance worthwhile. Whether total sales from TCA members plus the public is enough to justify a vendor's cost to attend York, is something only that vendor could decide.
I just don't see a downside to having the dealer halls open to the public.
Lionel made their own decision not to attend based on what they perceived as best for them. I wonder, however, at what other venue would there be around 10,000 o-gauge model train hobbiest?
Jim
TCA needs to attract newcomers to the hobby. In some ways TCA needs to learn from the younger members in the hobby about trends in model railroading and what interests them so that TCA can adjust to the changing needs of members and would be members. The Amhearst show model seems to attract younger folks and families so I would say TCA for the York meet and there division shows should move more toward replicating that model.
I think it is also a good idea to encourage other train hobby organixations to participate in the York Meet as well. LCCA's presence at York is a good example of ths presence.
So I am for keeping the meet open to the public. WE need to encourage participation with younger hobbyists so that the Hobby can sustain itself.
I don't see any good to close it to the public, for ANYONE.
We in this hobby need exposure- I have been to only one York (October 2018), and I thought that one was terrific. One of the best parts was seeing the public- not thousands or anything, but a lot of families, grandfathers w/ teen and younger grandchildren, all people who we would love to have in the hobby.
One day of only Members- fine, but otherwise let's promote the hobby!!
I think it is also a good idea to encourage other train hobby organizations to participate in the York Meet as well. LCCA's presence at York is a good example of this presence.
EDTCA does provide the venue space for operating layouts in the white, purple and black halls and that will attract the kids to see the trains operate. As for LCCA's presence in the Orange hall lobby, I question why they are being set up in the lobby. With the added space in that hall at this show and perhaps the upcoming ones there, why can't EDTCA place their layout inside the hall and give them the additional space to expand their layout and show their trains to interested folks. There was enough space where Lionel and Atlas would have been that we could have an inside football game there. But instead, it was empty looking.
WAKE UP EDTCA. YOU MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY TO FILL THAT VOID IN THAT AREA OF THAT HALL. LCCA has a mission to bring younger folks into the hobby. 
Just my 2 cents.
Ted Bertiger, President of OCSMR who has added 6 members to our club in the past 4 months.
I have no objection to opening part of show to public...how else are you going to attract new members...make them aware there IS such a hobby? But what % of attendees were NOT members? What has been gained? Fortunately for me, this week began with Strasburg O scale show (which was tiny), but where l spent the most, and the Timonium open show, which seemed to have more tin plate than usual, l thought was larger than l'd seen in the past, and where l got to meet a structure kit manufacturer whose kits l have built, as they are new and different. If the few mfrs. left want to preach to the choir, where else are they going to find a larger group of disciples? But what would Lionel have brought that was new and different? I have most of the old stuff l want, so why should l spend motel and gas to see reruns, and pick up catalogs of reruns? I missed two Yorks a year ago for medical reasons..what did l miss?
The way I understand it, is that not all of the halls are open to the public. Why ? Why would you not open a store to prospective customers ? What are we, some sort of secret organization ? Everyone complains that there is not enough new blood in the hobby. It seems to me that if you want to attract new people to our hobby, you must make our hobby known to those people. Every other train meet I know of doesn't require a secret handshake to attend, so why should the York meet be any different ?
Dan Padova posted:The way I understand it, is that not all of the halls are open to the public. Why ? Why would you not open a store to prospective customers ? What are we, some sort of secret organization ? Everyone complains that there is not enough new blood in the hobby. It seems to me that if you want to attract new people to our hobby, you must make our hobby known to those people. Every other train meet I know of doesn't require a secret handshake to attend, so why should the York meet be any different ?
I'm still trying to understand why you can apparently take pictures in some halls and not the others? 
If people want to see what it is like ahead of time, pictures seem like they could help not hurt as far as increasing attendance.
Tom
Dan Padova posted:The way I understand it, is that not all of the halls are open to the public. Why ?
Well, if all the halls were open to the public, some of us may decide not to pay TCA membership dues any more just to be able to attend York. As it is, we may have already lost a few who were only interested in what was being sold in the Orange and Purple Halls. We are already loosing members due to old age and death. Why add another reason?
The (sad, but true) joke among me and my dealer and some other colleagues that socialize at York is that "20 years ago, when I joined (shortly after graduating college and having a real job), I was one of the youngest members of the TCA. It's now 20+ years later, and I am still one of the youngest members of the TCA."
-Dave
I thought this exact same thing walking around YORK! For reference, I am now 33 and joined the TCA in 2000.
Joe Hohmann posted:Dan Padova posted:The way I understand it, is that not all of the halls are open to the public. Why ?
Well, if all the halls were open to the public, some of us may decide not to pay TCA membership dues any more just to be able to attend York. As it is, we may have already lost a few who were only interested in what was being sold in the Orange and Purple Halls. We are already loosing members due to old age and death. Why add another reason?
Valid point. The ONLY reason I pay TCA dues is so that I am able to attend the YORK meet. Membership has zero value to me otherwise.
Ted Bertiger posted:I think it is also a good idea to encourage other train hobby organizations to participate in the York Meet as well. LCCA's presence at York is a good example of this presence.
......................................... There was enough space where Lionel and Atlas would have been that we could have an inside football game there. But instead, it was empty looking.
WAKE UP EDTCA. YOU MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY TO FILL THAT VOID IN THAT AREA OF THAT HALL. LCCA has a mission to bring younger folks into the hobby.
IIRC, the map of Orange Hall had a dealer listed for taking a large portion of the space that Lionel vacated. I have heard that the dealer ended up being ill, and did not make it to this meet. I don't recall if anyone had been slated to take the Atlas space, or if Atlas maybe retained it and just set up their small table with catalogs there so they would not lose the area for the future.
Dan Padova posted:The way I understand it, is that not all of the halls are open to the public. Why ? Why would you not open a store to prospective customers ? What are we, some sort of secret organization ? Everyone complains that there is not enough new blood in the hobby. It seems to me that if you want to attract new people to our hobby, you must make our hobby known to those people. Every other train meet I know of doesn't require a secret handshake to attend, so why should the York meet be any different ?
There has been lengthy debate over that in many York threads in the past. It boils down to a tax agreement between EDTCA and the state of PA.
"Member to Member" sales within the organization for individuals had been allowed to transpire without the need for collecting/reporting of sales tax for individuals (not true for businesses, which do of course report sales and pay the tax to PA as part of their business).
Allowing the public general admission to the member halls would risk that agreement. It's not like there is no way for the public to see the member halls"just once to see what it is like". The guest registration is a one time thing (per person) that is allowed, and it is without restriction, you get to roam all the halls at will.
Some smaller sellers (I am likely one of the smallest to have a table) do not sell enough product to make it worth having to deal with the paperwork to obtain a PA tax number and file a few sales each York meet for barely enough sales to cover the cost of buying the table. (I am not talking all expenses, nor should I as I would attend with or without the table, and my hobby is not a business - I simply get a table to try to find new homes for a few items I no longer prioritize in my collection)
As for the "secret handshake" thing, that's a fallacy at this point. That went away when the 2 signature rule went away to join TCA (admittedly possibly later than it should have, but it's been gone for a while now).
Needing to join if you repeatedly want to attend York should not be considered a barrier. Any more than it's a barrier to have to pay yearly dues to any other organization of you want to purchase all of their special run products (LCCA, LOTS, etc.).
-Dave
OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:How many of these threads do we need??? There are already plenty but at least if you are going to participate in this one, keep it on topic with the reasons why the York meet should be closed (assuming OP means member's only)....
As few as possible but as many as necessary? This is clearly a topic that interests people and is trending. There are also many variables so the discussion can and will lead down several paths. Don't go all Zuckerberg on us please.
