Z1000 won't power TIU

Are you sure that the Z1000 has the original barrel plug?  If you plug the Z1000 into the wall, with the barrel plug not plugged into anything, does the breaker pop?  (I assume you mean the breaker in the Z1000.)

No answer, but the Z1000 has 1 function. Deliver ~18VAC.

If it delivers that to another MTH component, I'd be looking at the TIU receptacle. The TIU can be powered with a 1.5A supply. But what could be wrong? You basically plug it in. I'd get it looked at, before I tried powering it through the aux port

The Z 1000 was new when I bought it and has been serving as accessory power. The plug is original. The breaker does not pop on the Z 1000 when powered on.

I had the same problem.  Every time I plugged the Z1000 into the TIU it popped the breaker.  I ended up hooking up both handles on the Z4000 to the TIU and use the Z1000 for accessory power.

Interesting.May be the port on the tiu is defective. The z1000 powers the z controller.i guess I'll use the z1000 like I was--powering accessories

You might want to disconnect the TIU from the Z4000 and then plug-in the Z1000.

(1.) The plug-in port is suppose to disconnect the Fixed 1 power, but might not be working properly.

(2.) Second note: The Z4000 and Z1000 may not be phased properly causing the short if number (1.) is in fact the problem.    

Try connecting one of the accessory ports on the Z4000 to the TIU AUX port and see what happens.  If the port is bad, that should show up then.

By any chance, is this an original Rev. G TIU, where all of the Common wires are connected internally?

Barry, in the Rev G, was one of the AUX port terminals also connected to the black circuits?  I thought that in all versions, the port was completely isolated.

Larvic,

   No matter if you get the Z1000 to power your TIU or not IMO you are much better off

powering the TIU from the Aux with the Raido Shack power pack, in this manner you free up a Channel for train running and have better control of your layout power.

For the small amount of money expended it will also give you a Z1000 to run other trains with thru the channel you freed up.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, before using a wall wart, he has to find the cause of the short.  Wall warts usually do not have adequate overamperage limitation, and we don't want a fire.

Robert,

in the Rev G, was one of the AUX port terminals also connected to the black circuits?  I thought that in all versions, the port was completely isolated.

Yes, that's my understanding, as well. However, if it's a Rev. G., that could be the point of failure.

I had a similar problem that may be relevant.  I have a rev L TIU that I was powering with the Z4000 through fixed 1.  I also have a Z1000 that I was using the 14V aux output to power DZ1000 switches on Ross turnouts.  I wanted to add non deraliling, so checked to make sure the Z4000 output and the Z1000 14V aux output were in phase, and they were.  I then tried to then power the TIU aux input with the Z1000 18V output on the barrel connector, and the internal fuse in the fixed 1 output of the TIU blew.  I checked the Z1000 and it's 18V output is not in phase with it's 14V output.

Is it possible this is the problem?

RJR,

   Most of the time the problem is not the TIU, the transformers are probably out of Phase as Mike CT has pointed out, remove the Z1000 and this will be eliminated by then using the Aux with an alternate power source.   If he has a real TIU internal short than you have a different problem.  Remove one of the transformers and see what happens.

PCRR/Dave 

Is it possible this is the problem?

Not really.

Your particular issue was due to the fact that the same transformer was providing two power sources to the TIU that were (defectively) out of phase with respect to each other. In effect, the short circuit was within the transformer itself rather than within the TIU.

the TIU, Unfortunately?, Is a rev G. The TIU has no rev information on the back. So where does that leave me?

Larvic, 

   Take your Z1000 off line and try powering your TIU thru the aux with the RS power pack, I believe you will eliminate your problem completely.

PCRR/Dave

Larvic, I have 2 Rev G's which work fine with wall warts.  So don't feel you have to replace it immediately.  If you have a wall wart that outputs 12-18 volts, AC or DC, try it, or try my suggestion above regarding a Z4000 accessory output, to make sure that the AUX port isn't defective.

Is the polarity of the Z-1000 barrel plug reversed, since it's intended to plug into the controller?

Moonman,

   Good question, I really do not know if it is or not, I do know more than one guy trying to use the Z1000 for this purpose has had a similar problem doing it.

PCRR/Dave  

With power applied to fixed 1 I plugged in the AUX jack with power. Things broke. Sent it back to MTH for repair. I think they changed a micro switch at the AUX port.

Is there a way to test the plug with a volt meter?  My set up tripped the breaker in the Z1000 brick when I plugged it into the TIU.  I have since used the variable power on the Z4000 and use the Z1000 to power the switches and accessories.  I think I will leave well enough alone.  

Some Z-1000 were phased differently.  It can be corrected by opening the power supply.  If you plug your Z-4000 in red to black on Fixed 1 and use the Z-1000 does the problem go away?  G

The Z4000 is hooked to the Fixed 1 and Fixed 2.  Red to Red, Black to Black.  I can control the voltage by raising or lowering the handles.  When I was testing my layout for fit, I used the Z1000 to power the track.  Red to center and Black to outside rails.  I use the Z1000 to power switches and accessories now and with two loops and a yard the Z4000 handles all my needs right now.  Originally I was going to use the Z1000 to power the yard. 

Your layout as described is much like mine and the way you powered your track is the same as mine. I do have z4k set up also. The whole question started because I wanted to use the 1000 to power the TIU. I wasn't aware others had similar problems with the auxiliary input on the TIU.  things are working well and if I do anything I will get a wall wart to power the TIU In the future. Sometimes we just need to leave things as they are.

Mike CT: I took your advice and disconnected Z 4000 plugged in the Z 1000 and the circuit breaker on the Z 1000 immediately popped.

It appears to me from reading the manual, that Fixed 1 powers the TIU. You cannot connect an auxiliary power supply when using Fixed 1.

You would need to make your track connection from Variable 1, input and output, set the voltage with the handle of the Z4000, then you can connect the auxiliary power brick.

Variable 1, Fixed 2 or Variable 2 have no part in powering the TIU.

Since the fixed was intended for direct power from a brick, why not use both variable inputs and set the voltage with the Z-4000 handles, since that is what you are doing already.

Either way, you have to get track power off of Fixed 1 to use the Aux power for the TIU.

Manual p.8 & p.99 excerpts attached.

Carl,

It appears to me from reading the manual, that Fixed 1 powers the TIU. You cannot connect an auxiliary power supply when using Fixed 1.

Not so. When using auxiliary power you can use all the channels. There's that little word IF in the manual when referring to using FIXED 1. There's a micro switch in the TIU that disconnects Fixed 1 from powering the TIU, when you plug in your auxiliary transformer.

I agree with you, Joe.  Both of my TIUs use Fixed 1 and are powered through wall warts.  Sounds like the microswitch or equivalent has failed.

And mine are powered with a Z-500 brick. It has to be either a polarity issue with the transformers or a defective micro-switch I would think.

I have seen micro-switches in operating cars that only needed a slight bending of their arm to get them working properly again and very well might be this problem. When the aux. plug goes in, it is suppose to disconnect Fixed 1 from supplying power to the TIU.

Gentlemen,

   Get an old 3 prong adapter with the same size spades, plug the Z1000 into it then plug the transformer into the house outlet up side down, give it a try, more than likely your problem will be eliminated.  Mark the Z1000 plug and the old adapter with a red nail polish line, to identify it's use, each time you rebuild your layout.  We put the old ZW & KW's in Phase with the newer transformers in this same manner.  Completely eliminates the need for rewiring transformers, while phasing everything correctly.

PCRR/Dave

You don't have to do that to see if it is a polarity issue, just do what I stated several hundred post ago  Plug the red output of the Z-4000 into the black input of fixed 1 and black into red.

The problem though; I think he stated just plugging in the Z-1000 with no other transformer attached tripped the breaker on the Z-1000.  I think that means some sort of defect on the Z-1000, unless it works with it's controller.  If that is the case, there must be an issue with the Aux power input plug/circuit.   G

GGG,

   No doubt that is a good quick way to test her, and you are probably right the Aux Port may be defective or damaged in some way, I simply gave him a permanent easy fix to use his transformer, if it is really out of Phase.  Hopefully he does not need to have his TIU repaired.

PCRR/Dave

Joe,

Perhaps as the unit is a Rev G., something is different as Barry and RJR inferred.

Also, based on F & G RY's experience, the first plug-in with fixed 1 connected may have toasted the switch since it a rev G.

The couple of TIU's that the Fort Pitt High-railers use have had service issues that involved the replacement of the Aux power port. 

We went to the Aux power supply because, on outage/derail on Fixed one, the TIU would be completely dead.  There was no DCS power from Var1 out, Fixed2 out, Var2 out.  Using the Aux power, we can usually maintain the other three rail lines.

Rev G is no different than any other TIU when it comes to using the AUX port.

I used an ohmmeter and found that the center pin in the Aux port of both Rev G and Rev H is connected to the black terminals.  Since my Rev H is on the layout and all grounds are connected, I could not ascertain if, on the Rev H, the pin is only connect to the FIXED 1 black circuit.  Since, on any layout, the ground are, or should be, connected outside the TIU, the fact that internally Rev H and newer grounds aren't connected shouldn't make a difference.

To me, this means that the power source used for the AUX port should not be used for anything else connected to the layout, as proper phasing may or may not be possible if it is.

Peering into the AUX port, I see no visible evidence of a microswitch, but I'm not ready to open a TIU up to verify.

Based on all the helpful responses I am inclined to believe The problem is with the TIU.  The Z1000 powers the Zcommander with no problems .  Even with nothing connected to the TIU, the Z1000 trips when connected To the TIU.