SP5T (on)-on-off-on-(on) for switch machine toggles?

Single pole double throw center off sprung will work with the DZ1000 machines and should work with the Lionel switches as well. just don't buy the micro ones.

Rick, thank you but I'm looking for a solution that allows me to have indicator lights displayed at the location of the toggle switch. The SPDT momentary toggles will fire the solenoid, but I'm still left with the challenge of displaying the status.

As for the Lionel 022 controllers, I tried every which way I could, but there was no making the lighted toggle work with the DZ switch machines. What am I missing?

A Tortise smith machine. Two sets of contacts for power or signals.

You will want to use a SPDT momentary contact (On)-Off-(On) switch.

Can be used for both the DZ1000 and 022.

You can use LEDs as indicator lights, but I do not know enough about the DZ1000 to give you a proper design hint.

The circuit for both will be of this form.

D1 and D2 convert AC (not sure of DZ1000, but positive about 022) to DC for the LED indicators.

D3 and D4 are the LEDs (your color choice, like one green, one red)

R1 and R2 are current limiting resistors to limit current through the LEDs. I believe the DZ1000 will need different resistors than for the 022.

Resistor value calculated using this: Voltage (from switch machine) minus 0.7v (D1 or D2) minus 2.0v (for D3 or D4 green or red LED) divided by 0.020 (20ma max LED current).

The 022 will be sending the same voltage as you supply to the 022 - lets assume 16V ac. So 16v AC will be sent to your new switch circuit. To calculate R1 and R2, 16v - 0.7 - 2.0 equals 13.3v. Now divide 13.3v by 0.020 to get R1 and R2 value of 665 ohms. I believe a common resistor near this value is 680 ohms. You may have to experiment a bit with the R value to get the brightness you want, and that is close to what you get for the DZ1000 using my circuit.

You will have to use a VOM to determine what voltage the DZ1000 sends to it controller. I do not not what this voltage is.

Use momentary dpdt switches.  Dennis Zander posted this solution years ago.

http://www.z-stuff.net/app17.html

Bruce

Thanks guys, this is helpful.  @MED: it looks like your circuit is pretty much what @bruce benzie linked on the Zstuff site.  I guess I am not recalling correctly, but I thought there was an inherent problem with the circuits that somehow allowed both LEDs to stay lit, just dimming the one that wasn't attached to the currently active side of the switch machine (something about how the switch machines themselves work).

I appreciate the clear explanation on calculating the resistor values.  I think I can follow it.  Just to be clear, do ALL red or green led's (regardless of brand) drop 2V and require 20mA max, or was that just an example and I need to find these numbers for whatever led's I use?  I never really understood the resistors in the LED circuits, I guess that led's just don't provide enough resistance on their own and thepy are essentially short-circuiting without a resistor? It's the maximum allwoed current that I guess I was missing as a constant.  if led's always want a max of 20mA, then I think I get it.

Jeff

20ma is the usual current used. However - and I'm glad I checked - red LEDs have typically a 2v drop and green LEDs have typically a 3.5v drop.

The D1 and D2 diodes range in the 0.2 to 0.7v drop range. I have included a table I found on LED voltage drop by color I got from this website https://www.petervis.com/elect...stor-calculator.html

Cool. I've found some leds online that are prewired with resistors, saying they were 9V-12V. I assume they took the led color into account for the preinstalled resistor value?

For the other D1 and D2, u assume they can just be anything. The 1N4004 on the bay are dirt cheap and show 0.7v forward voltage. I guess these are ok?

1N4004 handles 1amp, you only need 0.02 amps, so no worries.

I would like to think the prewired resistor/diode combinations have taken the spec'd 9 to 12v into account.

I just wish I knew what the DZ1000 supplied on its two switch control wires. I have only worked with DZ2500, which have several more wires including two derailing wires that I have used, and they are based on +5V DC. If the DZ1000 gives you +5V DC also, the LEDs will work, but be dimmer than those you use on the 022 switches.

If you have a Volt Meter and can determine that the DZ1000 is supplying DC on its switch wires, you do not need the 1N4004 in series, giving a bit more voltage to the prewired LEDs you are purchasing, making them a bit brighter.

The 1N4004 diodes are definitely needed for the 022s, as they will be giving you AC.

I do have a VM and I can check the terminals on the DZ1000 next time I'm over at the layout.

J

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy you can also email Dennis Zander of z-stuff to get an answer about the DZ1000 from the "horses mouth". His email address is drzander@aol.com

He has helped me several times, and from what I read in this forum, has been helpful to many others.

I just found that I have this pic of the DZ1000 switch machine and controller circuitry. If accurate (I don't remember how I got it), it implies that the switch machine will be giving you a DC voltage based upon the AC level you supply (i.e., there is no internal regulator to drop the convert/drop the AC to a lower DC level (such as 5V, for example).

since you are using solenoids, you obviously need momentary contacts as you mentioned.     I did this with a combination of a Double Pole rotary switch and push button.    You could do the same with a DPDT switch and a push button.    And I would suggest not to use a center off version.

You would wire the power for the switch machines through one pole, say right side.    On the other side  you wire the power for LEDs for indication.     You set the power routing for the switch machine by throwing the toggle which also lights the proper LED.    You then route the switch power to a spring loaded push button.    After setting the power routing, you push the button to throws the switch.     The wiring is very simple but does take two components.    I used the rotary two pole switches to simulate a tower electrical controlled panel.    I have attached  photos.     The bottom line of controls on each panel is for signals, the top line is for the switches.

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

Rick, thank you but I'm looking for a solution that allows me to have indicator lights displayed at the location of the toggle switch. The SPDT momentary toggles will fire the solenoid, but I'm still left with the challenge of displaying the status.

As for the Lionel 022 controllers, I tried every which way I could, but there was no making the lighted toggle work with the DZ switch machines. What am I missing?

I built a control panel that incorporated DPDT momentary center off rocker switches and used a simple latching relay to switch the indicator LED's for the track switch position. You'll need one for each switch.

The DZ1000 switch machines, which have through/out indication lights, also have an add-on parallel wired latching relay, DZ1008, that adds function to the switch machine.  Most used NC/NO function would be for switch power routing.

After looking at the pic of the DZ1000 I posted earlier, I have had to make a revision to my circuit. If the pic is correct, I just had to rotate a diode and a LED to make my circuit match the DZ1000 controller. This modified will work for the 022 switches also, since they use AC, and it doesn't matter how we create the DC, as long as the diode and LED match.

Again, I wish I had a DZ1000 so I could breadboard this and give you a circuit I absolutely knew worked.

@MED: Your circuit works just fine!  I've got one wired up and flipping a DZ1000 just fine with the panel-mounted LED's indicating just as they should!  Thanks guys!

I haven't tried with the 022 switch yet, and although mechanically they are different, they should be identical electrically based on what you guys are saying.

Thanks for the help!