2 Rail MTH Russian Decapod keeps shutting down: Track issue or engine?

1.  Is it possible it could be a power supply issue ?  The 6200 isn't a wimpy Tyco-set pack, but MTH locos do need quite a bit of juice.  Do you have the 6200 set on Mode 1 or 2 ?

2.  Do you have any other MTH locos to compare operation ?  How about trying a "çonventional" DC loco ?

3.  I think MTH locos have an off-on switch for the smoke unit ?  Try turning it off, and put sound at minimum or off.

Those are my thoughts, BUT:  I have neither MTH steam locos nor a MRC 6200.

Best regards, and good luck, SZ

Check your draw bar. When you connect it to the tender, you should feel a slight "snap" when it's fully connected. What it sounds like is that the connection is vibrating loose. I've had it happen a couple of times and often help the AGHR Kids get theirs set up properly. The technique I use is to hold the tender with both hands and apply even upward pressure on the connector with my index fingers, then get everything on the track.

I have disconnected and re connected the drawbar twice prior to this incident. The first time I powered the engine up, I noticed that it powered up, lights and all, but the front headlight wouldn't turn on, and it wouldn't move. So, I removed it from the track, and plugged the drawbar back in till I heard a audible click. Worked fine for a couple of days, then started doing the same thing. So I unplugged the drawbar and put it back in place. Ran fine for several days until it started acting up again. I did visit a local hobby shop of mine where I spoke to a gentleman who has some pretty good knowledge on mth stuff, that told me that it could be a decoder issue causing it to keep shutting down, or a drawbar problem. I also thought that maybe static had damaged the drawbar in some way, as once I do think I touched the drawbar and felt a tiny static zap as I had been moving around on carpet prior, but I was told that when on the engine it couldn't be damaged as it is grounded to something(the engine). Is that true? Or could that be an issue?

IF you jumper both outside rails in 2-rail, you make a dead short!!!   There are only 2 rails.

I think this is probably an electronics problem.   

Another test would be to put the loco in a cradle upside down and connect leads from the track and run it.    See if it still stalls, that elminate track problems.

prrjim posted:

IF you jumper both outside rails in 2-rail, you make a dead short!!!   There are only 2 rails.

I think this is probably an electronics problem.   

Another test would be to put the loco in a cradle upside down and connect leads from the track and run it.    See if it still stalls, that elminate track problems.

 

 Yes  I missed it's a 2 rail engine  not 3.. Deleting the other post.  Thanks for the heads up.

Anyone who is a MTH tech on here?

Traincollector posted:

Anyone who is a MTH tech on here?

None on "here"as such. You might have to ask on the MTH DCS Forum.

Ok, wasn't sure where exactly to ask. Thank you!

Random shutting down can be a number of things, but it is usually a loss of power to the tender board.

- with the  tender disconnected, you can check continuity from the solder connections at the loco side of the drawbar to the pins on the tender side.  

- check the drawbar for loose pin connections.  If the pin wiggles in the solder connection when viewed from the bottom, it will cause intermittent operation.

- check continuity between the drivers and the pin connections on the drawbar. Pins on one side of the drawbar transmit power to the tender.

- One side of the drivers use a spring pressure contact on the axle bearing, so if the spring collapsed or doesn't have sufficient tension it will have poor power pickup.  There was a short run of bad springs (temper) on some premier locos, but it is pretty rare and I don't remember which ones had this problem.

- if you feel like opening the tender, with the loco connected to the tender, you can check continuity between the drivers to the power plug on the tender board.  Also check the 2/3 rail switch.

- repeated connecting/disconnecting the drawbar can cause the receptacles in the harness to spread and not make contact with the drawbar.  A continuity test will reveal this.  The plug can be disassembled and the pin connections closed to make better contact (pretty rare).

Ok, thank you for the reply. So, is this something anyone could check(continuity)? I'm not comfortable opening it, as I wouldn't really know exactly what I'm looking at, but I had planned on bringing it to a local hobby shop where one of the guys, although not mth certified is pretty well versed with the electronics on mth engines. I'm assuming if it just has a bad drawbar, this is easily fixable, correct?

Or am I going to have to bring it to a service center if it turns out that the drawbar is the issue?

Drawbar can be replaced by you or a competent tech.  Just keep track of the order of things when the drawbar screw is removed (washers, ground wire, drawbar cover, spring).

What does such a job usually cost?

Also, how could it have gotten damaged, if that is indeed the case here? Like I said, ive moved around on carpet and touched it, which as far as I can remember gave a tiny static zap upon touching it, but it seems as though it would be grounded with the locomotive, so no damage could occur? Is that correct, or could that have caused some damage?

The drawbars are around $10.  Labor rate will depend on the store.  The drawbars are multi-layered so forcing the drawbar into the tender at the wrong angle can break the internal pin connections.  Static is never a good think around electronics.  If you suspect a board issue, an authorized service center can test the boards outside the locomotive.

Thanks for the reply. The locomotive is boxed up now and ill take it to my local hobby shop tomorrow to test it out and see if it does the same thing it did when I tried it. If I do need to go to an authorized service center to make it right, do you know of any in the Westchester County area of NY? Ive heard of Westchester trains, but ive also heard terrible reviews on them, so I don't want to take it there. Ive heard good things about the Train Doctor in NJ, but that's roughly 2 and a half hours from me, and id like to avoid having to go that far if there is a trustworthy place closer. Thanks for the help!

You can use the service station finder on MTH's website with your zip code to locate ASC's in your your area.

Figured id give a little update: Took the engine to my local hobby shop. It jumped initially and shut down, but we let it sit for about a minute(charged super caps more I assume), and it ran fine, butter smooth at slow speeds.

Ran it this evening and it did fine as well, shut down twice, but I adjusted the track, closed any gaps, and it did fine. However, it did do something a bit odd. I coupled a grain hopper of mine to the front of the engine and had the engine pull it backwards for a bit. It seemed to struggle pulling it, and it would eventually stop, go through its shut down sequence, and shut down. As soon as I removed the car, it ran without any issue. what could this be? Seemed strange, but then again, I don't totally have it on level track(used cut up cardboard as a platform, so its not totally even), so I figured that I could have just been working it a bit too hard. What do you guys think? Board issue?

I'm guessing that with the uneven track, with 10 drive wheels, enough are lifting and some may not have good grounds to make sufficient contact with the rails.  A good test would be to run it on perfectly level track.

I figured that was probably the issue as well. Ran without issue pushing and pulling the freight car on the perfectly level section. As soon as it dipped through a slight curve in the track, and down hill a bit, it started to slow down, labor chuff, and stopped and shut itself down. I was however able to start it back up where it stopped.

Should I try a factory reset?

Left and Right track pick-up is via the tender trucks.  There is an interesting axle wiper contact that may need cleaned, adjusted, screws tightened, or slightly oiled.  Observation is from my three rail Russian decapod, which is a three/two convertible model.  There is also a three/two switch under the tender that may need checked.   I have had new locomotives with too much paint on the wheels/tender electrical pick-up wheels.   IMO  Mike CT.  You would also want to check the tender axles, isolation bushings, both the wheels, and the truck, to be sure they are working properly.

Mike, have you experienced your engine randomly stopping and shutting down as well? I was thinking of putting the rollers on mine and seeing if it acts any differently on 3 rail ac power. Ill try it again today and see if it gives me anymore issues on dc.

Traincollector posted:

.... However, it did do something a bit odd. I coupled a grain hopper of mine to the front of the engine and had the engine pull it backwards for a bit. It seemed to struggle pulling it, and it would eventually stop, go through its shut down sequence, and shut down. As soon as I removed the car, it ran without any issue. what could this be? Seemed strange, but then again, I don't totally have it on level track(used cut up cardboard as a platform, so its not totally even), so I figured that I could have just been working it a bit too hard. What do you guys think? Board issue?

If the hopper is all metal ( the frame), has metal couplers and metal coupler boxes, and so does the engine, you could be providing a path for a short. I use plastic couplers and/or boxes on my engines to prevent this. I had converted some Lionel metal hoppers to 2 rail using all metal couplers and wheels that were only insulated on one side. When one got turned around, it shorted out the layout when it touched another hopper. I have even felt a shock when handling these cars in a train.

 So another good option is to use wheel sets that are insulated on both sides!, or make sure the couplers/boxes are plastic. 

The hopper car is all plastic, with the couplers and the wheels being metal. The coupler on the locomotive was also metal. I didn't see any sort of spark, so I didn't think about the fact that it could have been shorting it out. Question, if it did short it out, could this have damaged the engine in some way?

Possibly. Should have kicked your in-line breaker though.

Thanks for the reply. I was running with a conventional mrc 6200 dc transformer. Like I said, there was no spark, it just shut itself down. Engine ran fine today once I cut the freight car off. Can I assume it is probably ok?

I wouldn't assume anything. My experience with electronics has been rather unforgiving.

I completely agree. I have had multiple issues with model train stuff over the years, part of the reason why I left the hobby for a while. Just got fed up with it. What should I do? As I said, it ran fine today. Should I try a factory reset? Ive been advised that that may help it..

I'd always try a factory reset. It never hurts, and if it fixes the problem, then you're set. If it doesn't work, at least you can say you tried it.

I have attached that grain car to it before, without an issue(engine was a jerky at slow crawl, but other than that no issue) which is why I wasn't totally convinced it created a short the other night. I coupled it to the front dummy coupler on the engine(happened to fit into the grain car's kadee perfectly) as I have yet to install kadees on the rear of the tender. It would start to pull it backwards without any issue and then all of the sudden it would slow down, struggleing as if it were pulling a heavy load, stop and go through its shut down sequence. Almost always in the same spot as well, which made me think it may be a track issue. I could however start it back up in that spot after it shut down. Like I said in an earlier post, I saw no spark from the coupler area, so a short seemed unlikely to me.. what do you think?

 Well it's odd that a single car could do the symptom directly by too much weight. So unless it's by coincidence, I'd look closer for something else.

I'd like to say it's ok. I just can't from here. Could be something else entirely. When an engine is developing a short, it can come and go. A wire inside could be rubbing on the chassis for example.

 It would be good to have inline fuses or breakers to protect an engine in a case like this. I've seen wires even melt when a bad short appears without protection.

 It would be good to at the least, have meters to show what's going on at the track. I joined in here late and you got good advice above. I'm tempted to say look closer at the layout. Sometimes certain engines don't like things that others might not mind.

Ill probably do a factory reset and see if the issue persists. Question, to do that I will need to use my ac transformer. Where exactly do the rollers go on the underside of the engine to allow it to run on 3 rail track? I see a bunch of screws where it says "grease" underneath, nut not sure exactly where to place the rollers for 3 rail running..

https://mthtrains.com/sites/de...ction/20st16313i.pdf

looking thru the instructions on page 5, it appears the rollers go only on the tender.

Thank you! I had just assumed they went on the locomotive itself, like most do. I will do that then. Thank you for the continued help.

Well old school looks better and better every day

Tender pick-up with the center roller.  Isolation bushings are also shown, picture upper wheels.

Hi all, so I ran the engine again for a bit today, and it shut down again. Moved it forward no less than a couple of inches, and it stopped cold, and began its shut down sequence, and shut itself down. The lionel ac transformer I have wasn't on the recommended transformers(for ac) on the list in the instruction manual, so I cannot perform a factory reset on it, at least not in my own home. Something must be up with this engine electronically. The issues have become more and more frequent. The piece of track that it stopped on was quite level, and definitely not uneven enough to cause it to shut down.

Now the question is where to bring it to be checked? Being in the Westchester area, ive heard of Westchester central trains, but they seem to have terrible reviews. Ive also heard of the train doctor in NJ, but they are a good 2 and a half hour drive from me and id rather deliver the engine in person so as to better describe the issues its having. Ive also heard of Tom's Trains in Ardsley. They seem to have very good reviews on here. Are they a MTH service center?