2020 PRR E8 color questions? Wrong Color?

My last 2 engines are ATLAS

@tom21pa posted:

I even ordered an e7b unit from the 2nd catalog, but that probably won't match either.

That’s a flip of a coin.

Dirt/ grey black works for me.  The yellow (below) may be a bit too yellow.   Let the dust settle, a couple of months, on the shelf, it will look just right.   Model paints, there is a grimmy black.    Slow day on the forum.   Fire-up your air brush, have fun painting them. 

@romiller49 posted:

The quality issue at Lionel has gone long enough now. The one and only person that is totally responsible for this mess is sitting at the very top. It’s time for H. H to go.

A long time ago, someone said to me that we, as modelers, vote with our wallet.  I've taken that to heart, and I took a chance on two sets of units and got burned by both MTH and Lionel for mistakes.

I'm done voting.

@tom21pa posted:

They forgot the hep details like they said would be included

@CentralFan1976 posted:

Do you think that those two extra fans that are on the roof are the Hep details?

@tom21pa posted:

Do you think that those two extra fans that are on the roof are the Hep details?

The rear hatch has the HEP details...  What are mufflers for the exhaust system, and a round unit that I assume is a vent.

I believe HEP electric was an additional generator installed in one, (or both),  of the units.  I could be wrong, and often.   There was an exhaust stack muffler for this unit.  During the time frame, these units would have some type, of a steam generator, for heat in the passenger cars.  Electric heat in the cars a little more friendly than steam, today.  IMO,  Mike CT.

Picture above shows the HEP generator exhaust muffler(s).

Original Weaver Models had a small bump rear of unit to model the steam generator exhaust.  Click on the attached image to enlarge. 

So they forgot the Hep details like I said.

@tom21pa posted:

So they forgot the Hep details like I said.

Really hard to tell.  Marketing images tend to be just that, we have had this discussion before.  Actual product, out of the box may be different.  IMO, Mike CT. 

@Mike CT posted:

Really hard to tell.  Marketing images tend to be just that, we have had this discussion before.  Actual product, out of the box may be different.  IMO, Mike CT.

Look at @Slipskull's first post... they did.

Here a better photo of the top

@CentralFan1976 posted:

Look at @Slipskull's first post... they did.

Weaver Models, from 1990's  Note:  There are several lighting, power, sound, and detail, upgrades to these models.

@Slipskull posted:

Here a better photo of the top

That looks like an as-delivered PRR E8 unit, with dynamic brake fans *in the middle of the carbody), the two cooling systems with the "winterization hatch" over one cooling fan in each system, plus the steam generator details/hatch on the rear of the carbody. Absolutely NO HEP details.

Yikes! That is awful!!

I guess this is the problem with preordering. What else do we buy sight unseen and wait a year or more to get? Can you imaging the auto companies trying to use this paradigm?  I understand the necessity for these niche companies, but this is often the result.

The last train item I preordered were the 6464 series 1 boxcars from I think 1993.

@Will posted:

The last train item I preordered were the 6464 series 1 boxcars from I think 1993.

Due to arrive sometime Mar 2021!

@Hot Water posted:

That looks like an as-delivered PRR E8 unit, with dynamic brake fans *in the middle of the carbody), the two cooling systems with the "winterization hatch" over one cooling fan in each system, plus the steam generator details/hatch on the rear of the carbody. Absolutely NO HEP details.

It's interesting Lionel went trough the cost to tool up for the dynamic brake fans of restored/modified prototype units, but not the HEP.

Rusty

One of the few bright spots about modeling Penn Central is that its hard to screw up black.

Tom

I found this video on YouTube today:

        https://youtu.be/04HlYL6zW5U

Under all different light conditions did they ever look like the latest Lionel E8s. Has anyone complained to Lionel yet? I would like to know what they say.

JohnB

@JohnB posted:

I found this video on YouTube today:

        https://youtu.be/04HlYL6zW5U

Under all different light conditions did they ever look like the latest Lionel E8s. Has anyone complained to Lionel yet? I would like to know what they say.

JohnB

Another thread said Lionel is not answering their phone. Apparantly you can wait on hold for over an hour. Not worth the effort. If any of you guys that bought these and are not happy with the color, send them back where you bought them.

@Slipskull posted:

I just got my PRR E8 the other day. These E8 were modeled after Juniata terminal 5711 and 5809. When I pulled them out of the box I noticed they were very RED. When I compare them to my PRR passenger cars the difference huge.  

my next thought was to look at pics of the real locomotives and see what they look like today and I noticed that they were much closer to the color of my passengers cars.

This was my first time ordering a locomotive from Lionel. Do they normally mess up this bad? Am I missing something and this is the correct color for these locomotives?

Also what can I do to fix something like this? I don't think lionel can repaint it for me. Is there anyone out there that does a good job repainting locos. I’m not confident that I can do a good job.

Because of this post, I was able to cancel my pre-order since the color of the locomotives were not acceptable to me.

@JohnB posted:

Has anyone complained to Lionel yet? I would like to know what they say.

JohnB

I contacted Lionel on Wednesday about the color issue to see what they had to say. They guy on the phone was very nice and seemed pretty knowable. He asked me to send a picture of the train. He said the color did look off and wanted to check back with someone to confirm what color should be. He said he would email me back in an hour or two after our call. I still haven't received an email or call back today being Thursday evening. I haven't called back because the wait time was about 55 minutes.

I plan on calling Monday if I haven't heard anything.

@Tom Densel posted:

One of the few bright spots about modeling Penn Central is that its hard to screw up black.

Tom

So far!

@Tom Densel posted:

One of the few bright spots about modeling Penn Central is that its hard to screw up black.

Tom

I know I am in the minority here, but I really like my Penn Central trains. I had waited for years hoping MTH would do a RS-1 in Penn Central black with the mating white worms. I also wanted a Premier e-8 ABA. These never got offered by MTH. I think it is cool that you can run Amtrak,New Haven, NYC, PRR passenger cars with PC locomotives and still be correct. I dont buy Lionel anymore, but I would  still be up for purchasing a E-8 pair in Penn Central that Lionel offered a few years back.  Sorry if I Hijacked this thread.

I just got my invoice from Charles Ro....so count me in too. I bought these to pull my Conrail Executive Inspection Train. I know this is fantasy but it is something to mix it up a little. Maybe pulling those dark green passenger cars will not look too bad.

My only other PRR equipment I have to compare from Lionel is my Neil Young passenger train set. Just looking at the posted pictures, I know already the E8's are way off in color. But we shall see, maybe I got lucky.

I will just be happy for now if the engines actually run "out of the box".

Donald

I suspect they all came from the same paint booth so I doubt anyone is getting "lucky".

I know that there are a ton of these Lionel E7/8s out there but they are really hard to look at. The nose contours and shape are so off. It just looks like they chiseled up their old E6 tooling or something. They can paint them whatever shade of dayglo they want as far I'm concerned.

3rd Rail is really the best at this type of engine these days. No gappy pilots either!

@MartyE posted:

I suspect they all came from the same paint booth so I doubt anyone is getting "lucky".

So.....you are saying there may be a chance.....

@Slipskull posted:

I just got my PRR E8 the other day. These E8 were modeled after Juniata terminal 5711 and 5809. When I pulled them out of the box I noticed they were very RED. When I compare them to my PRR passenger cars the difference huge.  

my next thought was to look at pics of the real locomotives and see what they look like today and I noticed that they were much closer to the color of my passengers cars.

This was my first time ordering a locomotive from Lionel. Do they normally mess up this bad? Am I missing something and this is the correct color for these locomotives?

Also what can I do to fix something like this? I don't think lionel can repaint it for me. Is there anyone out there that does a good job repainting locos. I’m not confident that I can do a good job.

If lionel somehow refuses to fix this... and that would be a foolish decision on thier part... I would think that Harry Heike could probably repaint it for you and decal it after painting.  Problem is, you already paid a hefty price for these and that would cost even more.

@Brian DeFazio posted:

If lionel somehow refuses to fix this... and that would be a foolish decision on thier part... I would think that Harry Heike could probably repaint it for you and decal it after painting.  Problem is, you already paid a hefty price for these and that would cost even more.

I was considering having Harry repaint my locos to the proper color when I received them and then common sense kicked in and I wasn't about to pay for a paint job after the purchase.  I cancelled my order.

Just got mine today from Charles RO. These really are red! When I opened the box, my better half on the other end of the room asked me if I had bought a new Santa Fe train. (To be fair, I had just shown off the new SF pup trailers I picked up as well today)

I just got an Email from Mr. Muffins, and they have examples of the NYC, Lackawanna, Amtrak, and Frisco to show - so big thanks to them!

The Lackawanna and Amtrak models look great, and the New York Central one looks...okay. Still a bit too light gray IMO, but definitely better than the 2017 lightning stripe versions.

Im not sure if the Frisco model has that much of a pinkish tint in the red paint, but most of the photos I see in the Messenger scheme look fairly close.

@Mikado 4501 posted:

I just got an Email from Mr. Muffins, and they have examples of the NYC, Erie Lackawanna, Amtrak, and Frisco to show - so big thanks to them!

The Erie Lackawanna and Amtrak models look great, and the New York Central one looks...okay. Still a bit too light gray IMO, but definitely better than the 2017 lightning stripe versions.

Im not sure if the Frisco model has that much of a pinkish tint in the red paint, but most of the photos I see in the Messenger scheme look fairly close.

The maroon band on that Lackawanna, i.e. NOT "Erie Lackawanna", unit is the wrong color! Neither the NYC nor the Frisco units appear correct to me, either.

Lackawanna / El Maroon is very close to CP Maroon if not the same. Could be the lighting too though.  The colors on this photo were matched from Tru-Color paints who most of the time, not always, gets them right.  The photo is a mock-up for corrections from another manufacturer.

@Hot Water posted:

That looks like an as-delivered PRR E8 unit, with dynamic brake fans *in the middle of the carbody), ........

You might want to rethink that:

-  PRR E8's didn't have d/b.  But if they did, it would have been the single 'large' fan, as those other E8 models above, including the Weaver PRR.  I think that side-by-side dual db fan has only been used in relatively recent retrofits [ recent in my terms of reference is the past thirty years...].

-  PRR E8's had two sg's per unit.

You can check the PRR Tech Society website;  here's a '67 photo [ my photo ] for ready reference.

@Hot Water posted:

That looks like an as-delivered PRR E8 unit, with dynamic brake fans *in the middle of the carbody), the two cooling systems with the "winterization hatch" over one cooling fan in each system, plus the steam generator details/hatch on the rear of the carbody. Absolutely NO HEP details.

An interesting detail indeed as PRR did not have dynamic brakes on the as-delivered E8s.  They were never added under original service by PRR / PC / Amtrak / or NJT.  The dynamic brakes were added during Bennit Levin's overhaul.  Yet the rear details are missing.

To be fair, 3rd Rail's FL9s didn't get dynamic brake details for the later versions (Amtrak, Maine Eastern, or Metro North).  There wasn't enough of them made to justify the cost of adding the changed details as it was a tooling change.  I can see how that happens.  I'll likely fix my Amtrak ones someday when I'm retired 15 years from now.

As delivered version from 3rd Rail next to K-line version from 2002???

I was wondering REALLY how bad is Lionel quality???  After checking  a general website about their quality problems, I found that even the STARTER SETS are coming out new in pieces....falling apart soon after first runs...this doesn't look good....makes the "used market" look like a safer bet. Of course there are still our "must have to buy" B.T.O. trains, and probably always will!

Anyone remember the K Line Sante Fe F7 red?.....he..he..he..

Wow, the colors are off on the Frisco unit for sure. The lettering should also be gold to match the striping, not yellow.

@redjimmy1955 posted:

I was wondering REALLY how bad is Lionel quality???  After checking  a general website about their quality problems, I found that even the STARTER SETS are coming out new in pieces....falling apart soon after first runs...this doesn't look good....makes the "used market" look like a safer bet. Of course there are still our "must have to buy" B.T.O. trains, and probably always will!

Anyone remember the K Line Sante Fe F7 red?.....he..he..he..

I'm just starting to get back into trains after many years of a hiatus and it was between Lionel and LGB, since I had both as a kid.  Kinda thinking about my choice again.

Has anyone seen the Lionel E8 Boston and Maine set yet? Not sure if its out. I preordered it and I’m hoping the color scheme on the loco is not that of a Mcdonalds Happy Meal