44 Tonner Review

Joe K posted:

Dave:  I love your backdrop shown in the video. Simply outstanding!

I have some pictures of a 44 tonner from a steel plant (now retired). 

You can compare them to your model, however it looks pretty close to the prototype to me.

This also is not a GE 44 tonner. You can tell by the handrails. 44 tonners did not have handrails that went across the entire front. Could be something heavier.

Martin Z

It might be a 65 ton version. You can see it has a very thick deck plate there. That was how they ballasted these center cabs, to increase tonnage rating.

So I'm a little confused. I get that it has a 2R/3R switch, but does it have Proto 3/2 trucks so the HiRail wheels can be swapped for Scale Wheels or not?

@Martin Z   I'm not an expert on G.E. 44 ton locomotives but given the fact that they been around awhile could it be possible the front handrail was added to this engine at a later date? It sure looks like a 44 tonner.  

Looks like MTH hit a homer with this one, I am looking forward to mine showing up soon.

Dave,

About the 3/2 switch and swapping the wheels, are the scale-flanged wheelsets available, and if so, what is their part number? The 44 tonner wheelsets seemed smaller than most other diesels when I looked at the model in the LHS, so I doubt that the regular 2 rail MTH wheels will fit, although I haven't measured anything. Besides, aren't the scale diesel wheelsets sold in packs of four? When this model was first announced, the description didn't mention it having 3/2 capability, and when we asked MTH about it, we were told it would not be 3/2 capable. I almost passed on reserving one because of this...

Also, Mike W. was quoted on this site as stating the Kadee couplers could not fit due to tight clearances, and that is why the mounting pads were not on the model. Please let us know which Kadees you used, and how you got them to fit when the product engineers couldn't.

Bill in FtL

Bill,

here are some photos of the trucks

This engine is wired for 2/3 rail operation. It also has the DCC/DCS switch in tact.  I did not test the front axle to see if it is isolated.  

Here are some photos of the pilots with Kadee 740s. I did slide the pilot forward the width of an HO rail which I understand may not be acceptable for many two railers.  

You can see the rail over the push pocket?   I might rework this.  I also understand this this may not be acceptable to many of you.  

After looking at the yoder model, it seems that the frame is longer by the same length that I spaced out the pilot.  I think that spacing would be pretty easy to add.

Dave

I am not sure why anyone would bother with converting these to 2 rail. You can watch Ebay and find nice brass Yoder 44 tonners, for the same, sometimes less, money. The Yoder, undec models, are just waiting to be painted in your favorite roadname.

Got my shipping notice from you this morning.  Looks like I'll see it Monday.  I assume it tested out OK?  Thanks for all the info posted here.  It's been a long wait, but it looks like it was worth it.

Thanks Dave. So it appears I was correct. This is a major 2 rail conversion project.

Bill,

My apologies, The wheels are smaller then MTH diesel sets.

Dave

2 Rail UPDATE:

The 2-3 rail switch is locked into the 3 rail position even though it is wired for both.  The non drive axle is NOT isolated!

Sorry guys,

Dave

Dave,

What do you mean by saying the switch is wired up but "locked" into the 3 rail position, did they super-glue it or something at the factory? Or did you simply mean that our choice is "locked" by the lack of appropriate insulated two rail wheelsets? This is reminding me of my RS1, which was supposed to be switchable from DCS to DCC, but the factory never installed the switch (the open hole for a switch is there in the frame). This, along with the lack of the advertised Kadee coupler mounting pads is making me think I should give this one (as well as any future MTH products) a pass. Unfortunately, I did have a 44 tonner on pre-order for about 2 years, and I can't really stick the LHS with it since it isn't his fault either.

Bill in FtL

David Minarik posted:

2 Rail UPDATE:

The 2-3 rail switch is locked into the 3 rail position even though it is wired for both.  The non drive axle is NOT isolated!

Sorry guys,

Dave

Wow. Thanks for looking into it Dave. I wish MTH would decide what they are doing going forward. This is the first newly tooled diesel in years. One that is perfectly suited for 2 rail and Proto 3/2, but this is what they decide to make. It doesn't make much sense. After seeing that they let the Proto 3/2 patent lapse I'm wondering if they are done with Proto 3/2 in any new tooling. I wish they would just let us know either way. 

Bill. There is a small metal plate that does not allow the operator to switch to 2 rail. It is correctly wired internally. 

Jonathan.  My guess is that they intend on making it an option in the future.  It would work if the front wheels were isolated.  

David,

What would be the minimum radius curve with the fixed pilot ?

My kadee equipped WBB 44 -ton is happy on O27 curve.

Thanks

Pat

Well at least we knew up front these would not come with the Kadee/2 rail option, unlike the most recent FTs delivered. Those were advertised as being 2 rail conversion compatible with Kadee pads BUT they are NOT. They used the old truck blocks and no Kadee pads.

Dave, Thanks for all of the detail, pictures and videos. It's tough to watch your videos of the 44 toner...the layout and scenery keep grabbing my attention and I forget to watch the loco!! 

Laidoffsick posted:

Well at least we knew up front these would not come with the Kadee/2 rail option, unlike the most recent FTs delivered. Those were advertised as being 2 rail conversion compatible with Kadee pads BUT they are NOT. They used the old truck blocks and no Kadee pads.

It's stuff like this that has turned me off on ever doing any more pre-orders for either MTH or Lionel. Heck, I don't even want to see their new catalogs anymore, who needs the anticipation followed by the letdown? The 2015 v.1 catalog states that the 44 tonner would have Kadee mounting pads (which it doesn't), and while it didn't state they would be 3/2 rail compatible, I had hoped it might. I'm glad I wasn't lusting after an FT, I hadn't realized it was also falsely advertised as being Kadee/3-2 rail compatible (there oughta be a law). Now, seeing that the 44 tonner probably was to have been 3/2, but at the last minute that feature was crippled by MTH, makes things even worse. Add to that the fact that it only has two driven axles plus four rubber traction tires, makes me question the quality of all the rest of the engineering on this loco. Too bad, because I was really looking forward to this one.

It also appears from the photos posted here, that the two idler axles are pressed onto the truck frames with no easy way to change them, unlike the driven axles, which are held in with a retainer plate and screws. Where's the logic in that for a $450 loco?

Thanks to Dave for all his effort in posting his review.

Bill in FtL

Someone above mentioned wanting a smoke unit in lieu of the 2nd motor. That would have made a lot more sense wouldn't it?  With only ONE axel powered per motor, it seems like 'motor overkill'.  A single motor driving two axels essentially would have the same power to the rail.  Any difference would be negligible.

Personally, smoke adds a lot to the 'realism effect' of our trains and would have been a better choice to me. Who is going to be pulling more cars than one motor could handle with one of these little beauties anyway?  :-)

On a positive note - Your layout is fantastic Dave,  thanks so much for the time and effort you put into this excellent review!   Q:  What was Batman doing parking his car beside the buildings?

Not a review but a question on this new model. One of our club members just received his MTH 44 tonner and said it will not go through the 072 Lionel  fast track switches on his layout. It looses power then stops. Works OK on MTH track and switches and Gargraves and Ross switches. Does anyone else have this problem with the new MTH 44 tonner and fast track switches, or for that matter does anyone have other MTH locomotives having problems going through fast track switches?

We found an answer...the 44 tonner our club member purchased has a "dead" pickup on the roller on one truck. He is going to have to send it back or we will trouble shoot it to see where a wire is disconnected.

This is a small package that MTH had to develop a miniature board set to fit into. I too would have liked a 2 rail version. They did not promise it. I do not think bashing them makes this any better.

 Just about every post here seems negative. It seems like there's a lot of negative stuff lately. Even a doom and gloom post declaring MTH is going under.

Overall I think MTH making this engine can lead to even better things. I'm glad that three rail people get this engine. If I really wanted it, I'd put in the effort to convert it just like the products from Lionel. I wish Lionel had made the Track mobile for two rail too.

With all these posts about 2 rail versions, I'm shocked that 2 rail MTH is not more in demand.

I'm disappointed there is no Two Rail loco but MTH must know what they are doing, I don't like all the negative comments either.

I thank Dave for posting this thread he must be a busy man and would have known this would have been a controversial subject.

Thanks Dave! For putting us all in the picture.  Roo

MTH 44 Ton 

I love it! This engine has really cool sounds, nice volume, looks and runs great. Lots of fun.

Nice engine, nice rockwork.

Roo.

I like this little engine ! The first diesel from MTH with a minimum space between trucks, pilot, and frame. Thank you MTH.    And thankyou Dave for the review and the Kadee install.

Would have been nice to have a 2 rail version to get a fixed pilot, but I'm still a 3 railer.  Next layout build will be two.

Clem k 

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I purchased a Williams 44 ton at York. Not impressed. Was expecting the smooth gearing like the 4-6-0 or even RS3 (which was another York buy, great engine). Very abrupt stops, similar to new PS3 MTH steam. No "flywheel coasting action" which I noticed was missing from the 44 ton Tech Specs listing in the Williams catalog, unlike any other engines. Makes switching with it nearly impossible. 

I'll be picking up my MTH 44 ton from the LHS this afternoon. I'm very excited to finally have my hands on it and hope it is a better runner than the Williams. 

"PROS: Fit and finish is pretty darn nice. Pulling power is awesome!  Sound is great."

I had the opportunity to see the MTH 44 tonner running at Pat and Jean Marinari's.  Dave M. is sure tight about the pulling power being impressive for such a small locomotive.  We measured 13 ounces of pull.  It can handle a dozen typical modern O scale freight cars on Pat's 2.8% grades.

algomafan85 posted:

Not a review but a question on this new model. One of our club members just received his MTH 44 tonner and said it will not go through the 072 Lionel  fast track switches on his layout. It looses power then stops. Works OK on MTH track and switches and Gargraves and Ross switches. Does anyone else have this problem with the new MTH 44 tonner and fast track switches, or for that matter does anyone have other MTH locomotives having problems going through fast track switches?

We found an answer...the 44 tonner our club member purchased has a "dead" pickup on the roller on one truck. He is going to have to send it back or we will trouble shoot it to see where a wire is disconnected.

Look at the ground.  You can test it by temporarily removing your traction tires.  See if the engine goes through the switch.

I have replaced both pickup rollers.  More importantly, I also replaced one rubber traction tire (opposite sides) on both drive axles, with a metal tire.  This improves the ground on switches that have a longer dead outside rail and still leaves me with two traction tires.  I can now creep through ANY switch.

Metal Tire is lower right

Metal tire is the upper left.

Ted Hikel posted:

"PROS: Fit and finish is pretty darn nice. Pulling power is awesome!  Sound is great."

I had the opportunity to see the MTH 44 tonner running at Pat and Jean Marinari's.  Dave M. is sure tight about the pulling power being impressive for such a small locomotive.  We measured 13 ounces of pull.  It can handle a dozen typical modern O scale freight cars on Pat's 2.8% grades.

+1

I picked up my LIRR model at York and am very pleased with the fit, finish, and smooth operation. Nice sounds. The spacing is so close that one does not readily notice that the model has a swinging pilot. I confess to being an enthusiast of die cast diesel models, even when they are a bit more costly. Primarily, my sample will see operations in conventional AC mode with some operating on a friend's DCS-equipped layout on 3-rail track. Even in conventional AC operation, switching duties with accessible slow speeds and effective coupler actuation are a joy. As for design choices, I favor having the pulling power and control of two motors over a smoke feature in this kind of model, given its intended duties and the interior space available. I was anticipating that the new MTH 44 tonner would be like another fun little critter diesel from MTH, the die cast CNJ GE box cab that I purchased many moons ago. Mission accomplished!

Good job, MTH.

Thanks for the review, Dave.

Bob

Dave how did you fabricate a metal tire?

Laidoffsick posted:

Dave how did you fabricate a metal tire?

Lathe

I haven't gotten my 44 tonner yet, but I was working on the real one. 38 gallons of antifreeze per motor.

I should have let everyone know I had it out and they could have come down from York and seen it in action. I will use it in service Dec 10th on Santa trains.

The comment on sound set. It is my engine that is recorded and it took all day to make the recordings. Not an easy task to do. We ran some files on 9339 also, but background noise was terrible and probably not used.  my mechanic also said it sounded a little like an Alco for on simple reason. Most 44 ton engines no longer have mufflers or spark arrestors to dampen the sound. But they are not to loud to begin with so I believe they just straight piped them. I know the old Concord units have mufflers that now reside in Georgia. 

The engines are defiantly Cat motors. 9339 on start up will blow smoke rings just like MTH models do but only on start up. Typical the 44's don't blow much smoke once running. The Cats don't get that excited.

Jamie

Bill Nielsen posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

Well at least we knew up front these would not come with the Kadee/2 rail option, unlike the most recent FTs delivered. Those were advertised as being 2 rail conversion compatible with Kadee pads BUT they are NOT. They used the old truck blocks and no Kadee pads.

It's stuff like this that has turned me off on ever doing any more pre-orders for either MTH or Lionel. Heck, I don't even want to see their new catalogs anymore, who needs the anticipation followed by the letdown? The 2015 v.1 catalog states that the 44 tonner would have Kadee mounting pads (which it doesn't), and while it didn't state they would be 3/2 rail compatible, I had hoped it might. I'm glad I wasn't lusting after an FT, I hadn't realized it was also falsely advertised as being Kadee/3-2 rail compatible (there oughta be a law). Now, seeing that the 44 tonner probably was to have been 3/2, but at the last minute that feature was crippled by MTH, makes things even worse. Add to that the fact that it only has two driven axles plus four rubber traction tires, makes me question the quality of all the rest of the engineering on this loco. Too bad, because I was really looking forward to this one.

It also appears from the photos posted here, that the two idler axles are pressed onto the truck frames with no easy way to change them, unlike the driven axles, which are held in with a retainer plate and screws. Where's the logic in that for a $450 loco?

Thanks to Dave for all his effort in posting his review.

Bill in FtL

Bill, Those idle wheels would be easy to pull and replace with a 2R wheel. G

CSX FAN posted:

The comment on sound set. It is my engine that is recorded and it took all day to make the recordings. Not an easy task to do. We ran some files on 9339 also, but background noise was terrible and probably not used.

Nice to get it from the horse's mouth!

Now that I have my New Haven which is black hood and orange cab, I wonder, if in the future, MTH will do one with a black cab and orange hood. Just thinking out loud.

My only complaint: There is a fireman, the primary reason for the 44 tonner was only an engineer was needed.

Steve

L & N posted:

My only complaint: There is a fireman, the primary reason for the 44 tonner was only an engineer was needed.

Pop the top and take him out.

Maybe he's just riding and gassing with the engineer.