4x8 or 5x9 track layout ideas with 042 curves

4449 posted:

Hello OGR Forum,

Just had to join after seeing so much great information.  My son Austin (6 years old) and I are new to the forum and hobby.  We have several O-gauge trains sets now running in his trundle bed on fast track and real track with 031 and 036 curves.  

I am looking to build either a 4x8 or 5x9 layout and need ideas with 042 curves as we have some 18" K-line passenger cars we would like to run.  So that is the big challenge is the 042 curves.  I'm open to having multiple levels if that helps with the plans.  I have a solid steal base so either top size will work.  I also have both Lionel Fasttrack and MTH Realttrax.  But I prefer to use Realtrax going forward as it is more cost effective unless sold on another type of track.

I have found a lot of great info already.  Looking forward to any help and suggestions.  Any suggestion on software as well.  I am currently using the free software from MTH to build a layout.

Happy Holidays,

Chris and Austin

 

Welcome!

I personally would recommend that you avoid MTH Realtrax. You will have a lot of electrical problems as well as structural (rails not in alignment, etc). Best to spend the money now and have something that will last. Fasttrack on a 4x8 will be a bit tight. I actually don't think you can run two loops on a 4x8 table top with Fasttrack due to the wide base. 

My layout, below, is 4x8. I use Lionel tubular track and Ross Switches. The outer loop is 042 and the inside and upper loops are 031. Lots of options. I also have two Bump-'n-Go trolleys operating. 

I use the following track plan on a 6x9 with tubular track. The outer loop is O-42, the inner is O-31. While not shown, the three switches each have the sidings extended. It has double reversing loops, and with the anti-derailing features of the O22 tubular switches, you can get some nice automatic operation where the train takes interesting paths in opposing directions on the inner loops. You can also have a bump and go operation between any of the sidings. The only thing I really wish I did differently was to use 4 O-72 switches between the inner and outer loops. I will change. The only other disappointment was I could not use the Lionel 450 across a double track span as they are too far apart. I haven't measured if the O-72 switches would change that.

Might I recommend the following regarding table size:  If you can find it near you, Baltic Birch comes in 5x5 foot pieces....and the 1/2 inch material is plenty strong for making train tables.  It's also noticeably lighter than 3/4" 5x9 or 4x8 sheets.

I've always felt that one can do more with 5x10 instead of 5x9.  And a second 5x10 can make for a nice L shaped layout when placed perpendicular to the first 5x10.

Just my two cents.  Best of luck regardless!

Thank you for all the input, suggestions and knowledge!!  I definitely like the idea of changing to the tubular track especially since I'm not to far into it.  And saving the fasttrack and realtrax for when my son wants to run it on the carpet or floor. 

I also like the 5X5 idea and it expansion options into an L-shape.  Right now I don't have the space for it but am hoping in the future when we move out of state we will have basement which I can build bigger.  9' is about the biggest I can go length wise but I can go 5' or even 6' wide possibly which will open up layout ideas.

4449,

For layout design software, I can highly recommend SCARM. To find it, just look further within the Track Plan and Layout Design sub-forum.  It allows you to design with a variety of track packages, including using multiple track packages for mix-and-match possibilities, and is absolutely free.  Just follow the developer's download instructions carefully because his web-hosting site places a lot of paid advertising download links onto his page which might cause you some problems. 

If you use Panda Free as your anti-virus program, you might run into problems with the install, even if you download the right program.  I simply turned Panda off for the install and turned it back on immediately after the install and everything worked just fine.  Good luck, and have fun with trains.

Chuck

I agree with Chuck. It might take you a little time to learn SCARM, but it will be worth the effort.

http://www.scarm.info/index.php

If you can go 6' X 12', this is a sweet layout I built.  Outer loop is 054, inner loop is 042.  You can run 3 trains at once.  I spaced out tracks #7 & 8 so I could get the log loader in on both sides for loading and unloading and had a gantry crane at the end of track #6.  Maybe the sawmill was in there on track #6 as well.  Can't quite recall.

I still have the Lionel O27 track and switches wired for separate power if anyone is interested in building this sweet layout I will sell you the track package complete.  I also have the accessories mentioned.  Cool layout.  Just thought I would share if you can go a tad bigger.  4x8 or 5X9 is really limiting, but a creative mind can make it work.  Best of luck.

SJC posted:

4449 posted:

Hello OGR Forum,

Just had to join after seeing so much great information.  My son Austin (6 years old) and I are new to the forum and hobby.  We have several O-gauge trains sets now running in his trundle bed on fast track and real track with 031 and 036 curves.  

I am looking to build either a 4x8 or 5x9 layout and need ideas with 042 curves as we have some 18" K-line passenger cars we would like to run.  So that is the big challenge is the 042 curves.  I'm open to having multiple levels if that helps with the plans.  I have a solid steal base so either top size will work.  I also have both Lionel Fasttrack and MTH Realttrax.  But I prefer to use Realtrax going forward as it is more cost effective unless sold on another type of track.

I have found a lot of great info already.  Looking forward to any help and suggestions.  Any suggestion on software as well.  I am currently using the free software from MTH to build a layout.

Happy Holidays,

Chris and Austin

 

Welcome!

I personally would recommend that you avoid MTH Realtrax. You will have a lot of electrical problems as well as structural (rails not in alignment, etc). Best to spend the money now and have something that will last. Fasttrack on a 4x8 will be a bit tight. I actually don't think you can run two loops on a 4x8 table top with Fasttrack due to the wide base. 

My layout, below, is 4x8. I use Lionel tubular track and Ross Switches. The outer loop is 042 and the inside and upper loops are 031. Lots of options. I also have two Bump-'n-Go trolleys operating. 

I've not had any major problems with RealTrax - once I started following the directions on how to put it together and take it apart. What I like about it: if you watch eBay you can purchase the track at reasonable prices.  Solid rail vs. hollow rail. I've not found there to be that much of a difference - operation wise.  Sometimes the plastic road bed color doesn't match.  What I don't like about it:  The lack of different lengths of straight track compared to Fastrack.  The lack of being able to set up a 3356 horse car and corral with out some heavy mods to the track. But, then, Fastrack has the same problem.  

I prefer the narrower road bed of Realtrax vs. Fastrack.  I like using O-gauge (not O-27) track. What I don't like is the ridiculously large switch engine on certain versions of Lionel switches.  I wanted to use Atlas track but, and IIRC, they don't not have non-derailing switches as a default.  You have to purchase some extra items from Atlas to get that feature.

Truthfully, I have not found one track system that covers all the bases.

Then use Ross track and switches.  All your problems are solved in one fell swoop.

(I have always wanted to use that expression.  That felt good.)

I have come up with two designs myself so far.  Below is the second one.  This has an outer loop with 042 and 054 curves.  Only the inner 3 side rails and two switches and are 031 switches and curves.  So I have a lot of room to run my longer trains.  This is all done using the MTH software call RR-Track Lite v4.2.

I will try scarm as suggested above to see if I can come up with the same or similar or even better results.  The below plan is on a 5x8 table layout.

If anyone has any opinions or suggestions on these two plans let me know.  I was trying to think of a way to build a second level or elevation but again I am new to this.

I will post my first layout in another reply as it won't paste in this one.

Here is my first one on a 4x8 layout.  Only the outer loop is 042 which is really limiting.  I don't think I like this one as much as the one above on the 5x8 layout.

Unfortunately at the moment, I can't go much bigger since we are moving in about 6 months.  I am just looking to maximize a small layout that I can flip on it side and load into the moving truck so to speak.  All the buildings and such will have to wait a year until we get settle.  As suggest above with the 5x5 layout design to create an Lshape, I may have to modify it a bit based on my space limitations and maybe add a 4x5 piece later create the Lshape.

Thanks to everyone providing input and suggestions!!!  I will try scram out later tonight when the kiddos are in bed as I would like to start my build in a day or two.

Best Regards,

Chris and Austin

The second one has two independent loops.  The first is one train only.  If you have 5X8 your outer loop can be 054.  Or 042 with a straight spacer.

If you want a second level in that space, it will have to be an independent loop.  It takes 14' of running track to get up and over in O gauge.  

William 1 posted:

If you can go 6' X 12', this is a sweet layout I built.  Outer loop is 054, inner loop is 042.  You can run 3 trains at once.  I spaced out tracks #7 & 8 so I could get the log loader in on both sides for loading and unloading and had a gantry crane at the end of track #6.  Maybe the sawmill was in there on track #6 as well.  Can't quite recall.

I still have the Lionel O27 track and switches wired for separate power if anyone is interested in building this sweet layout I will sell you the track package complete.  I also have the accessories mentioned.  Cool layout.  Just thought I would share if you can go a tad bigger.  4x8 or 5X9 is really limiting, but a creative mind can make it work.  Best of luck.

That actually is a nice layout, and I might take some inspiration from it.  Took me a while to figure out how you ran 3 trains on it, until I saw it.  Quite cleaver!

4449 posted:

I will try scram out later tonight when the kiddos are in bed as I would like to start my build in a day or two.

Had I known you had RR-Track, I wouldn't have recommended SCARM, though I do use both. I generally work in RR-Track because I find it quicker and easier to get things done, then convert to SCARM, mostly to see its 3D view and for Mixy's simulation feature when it gets released. The more I use SCARM though, the easier it is for me to get things done. My main gripe is having to select a track and then select a menu option to move things vs just the left-click in RR-Track. It is nice though to be able to just hit the spacebar to repeat the last track.

I just noticed you are using the RR-Track Lite that came with your set, so you are limited on track libraries. I started with Lite too, but quickly decided RealTrax was not for me in the long run and I purchased the full version with additional track libraries. That was before SCARM was released. If nothing else, SCARM will give you the option to see what you can design using other track libraries, like Atlas, GarGraves, FasTrack, etc. IMHO, SCARM is worth learning just for the 3D view, though I've gotten better at 3D design in RR-Track. At any rate, it's free for now and another option. All track is not created equal, so you can't just swap brands of track and get the same results. Plus, you might find that O31/O36/O48/O60 FasTrack gives you more options than O31/O42/O54 RealTrax before you get too heavily invested in RealTrax to make the switch.

I also haven't had any serious problems with RealTrax and mine has been taken apart and reconfigured many times. I just think it's too noisy and I'm not a big fan of plastic roadbed on a more permanent layout unless the layout is going to be covered with something like indoor/outdoor carpet. I haven't had any experience with FasTrack, so I don't know if I'd like it any better. For sure, there are more options with FasTrack, so it's something to consider if one is going to use track with plastic roadbed. I don't know how long you've had your set, so you might not have enough experience with it yet. I may use the RealTrax I have on my top level though since it's independent of the bottom level and will be using O31 curves. If nothing else, I'll use it temporarily. 

Anyway, plan 1 lets you run 2 trains at the same time without intervention. It does have tighter turns, so that limits the equipment you can buy, but I don't think O42 increases the options all that much. Plan 2 lets you run 3 trains, but you have to manage the single main line to avoid conflicts. And if you really want to avoid accidents, you need to do some creative wiring to stop trains if the main is already being used by another train. Plan 2 is definitely more of a "working" plan that will require the operator to pay attention to what's going on or there will be some crashes.  I think I would consider eliminating the passing siding at the bottom in order to separate the inner loop, kind of a combination of the 2 plans.

William1 - Thank you for the advice on running the outer loop at 054.  Here are the results of what I can up with for my 3rd plan.  The outer loop has 4 054 and 2 042 curves at the end.  The inner loop has 4 042 and 2 054 curves at the end and I was able to mate them up nicely.  The inner terminator rails are 031 curves.  This is all on a 5x8 table.

Dave - Thank you for the information on using RR to build and them paste it into scarm.  I didn't have a chance last night to download it but will today and give it a go.

You misunderstood. You can't "paste" into SCARM, you have to redo the plan in SCARM. However, once you have it done in RR-Track, it's easy to just follow the plan because you don't have to figure things out again. It'll take some time to learn, but if you decide to play with it, you'll get the hang of it fairly quickly.

FWIW, I like plan 3 the best so far. It separates the 2 ovals (like I suggested), lets you run 2 trains without intervention and lets you run them in opposite directions for more visual variety.

BTW. I don't know if you've seen SCARM images, so I put your layout in SCARM and added some grades to show you how the 3D feature looks compared to RR-Track. I also added the SCARM file without the grades in case you decide to play with SCARM.

Sinclair - it is a nice plan.  You can run two trains, one over the crossover on the inner loop, or three, as you figured out.  I built this just as TMCC was coming out.  I had 8 blocks with 2 BPCs, the gantry crane and log loader TMCC equipped with AMCs, switches via ASCs,  an ARC to make recordings, 2 TPCs so I could run TMCC or conventional on any loop, all original IC Control boxes.  A tad overkill perhaps, but that was fun.  Problem was the O27 switches just weren't that compatible with 18 volts on the track, even though I wired them to a separate power source.  Sparky.  So I built a bigger layout using Ross track and switches.  Still have the 027 track for the first one.  It is a good plan.  You make a 6'X12' platform out of 3- 4'X6' sheets.  

I was just remembering, guys my age call them flashbacks, the original plan I copied didn't have the outside loop, and was probably more configured to a 4X8.  I added the outside loop and crossovers.  It's a cool small layout design either way, with the 45 crossing on the one loop. The switching spurs worked in really well also.  Have fun!