Addicted to BlueRail

richs09,

They never went away, it's that they were in the design process of the new board plus negotiating with the DCC folks.  Took a while but now they've come out with the new board that, depending on the one you pick, is more suited for large-scale such as our O-scale engines.

Even with battery power, you don't "need" to do away with the 3rd rail, although there's no need to have it once the conversions are made to BPRC.  I ran my BPRC fleet for a while before I removed the middle rail, then eventually tore it all out and rebuilt using code 148 2-rail track and Mianne benchwork.  I still use 3-rail wheels, but on the engines and passenger cars I've removed the center rollers.

I'm playing with battery-power in my passenger cars now.  I know it works because I've done 2 cars, but finding a place to put the charging jack has slowed me down.  Using the track to charge would be wonderful, or better yet a conductive charging system (think cordless toothbrush) would be great.  I even drew up a water column design so the charging cord would coil up on a spool underneath it, but the drawing is as far as I've gotten.  Simply pull it out and plug it into the jack on the engine, when done it should retract on it's own:

Bob, instead of a recoil have you considered a long descending loop of wire much like that along the side of some elevator shafts?   A recoil  may work harden the wire after repeated use.

There are fine stranded wires like those for vehicle door / window control power but I always look for a kiss approach.

I used that principle in my antiquated lift up panel with drawer style circuit boards.  The panel wire bundles go through  the mounting board of the MTH blocks then come back up after a 12 inch "U".

Drawer closed, panel downDrawer out, panel up          Note the wire bundles go down through the drawer floor then loop around and come back up to connect to the terminal strips and MTH panels.

Every home run star feed is switchable on my layout.  All the visible wires connect a s.p.d.t. toggle to a block feed.

I am thinking this just may help get past the recoil development and go right into a charging application.

Your water spout is a great idea.  Also applicable to diesel oil fill.  I am using the diesel tank for a charging jack mount already so that is perfect.

Bob Buck drilled out my tank for both a switch button and a charging jack.  He was able to squeeze a Pico R/C battery system into a twin tower drive P&D platform geep.

seems to me (without much expertise using battery power) that a charging track would solve a lot of problems, given that most locos/tenders are gonna start life with an electrical connection to the wheels.  So I'd think you'd need a switch somewhere on the loco/tender that would allow you to make that connection between the charging circuit and the track when you are ready to charge.  Perhaps something that is 'remote', like a reed switch that could be activated with an electromagnet, etc.  An alternative might be to have a receptacle/plug-in on the bottom of the loco/tender and then a section of bare track over a hole close to the edge of the layout where the 'big hand in the sky' can reach up and plug in the charging circuit (something self-aligning, like an audio mini-plug...).

I recall a recent posting here - might have been GRJ - about using one of the cheap, commercial RC 'key fob' devices to control on/off switches remotely.  Might be useful for battery-powered lighting for passenger cars/cabeese.

Thanks Tom!  The long loop  would probably work, but my over-engineering cap was on that day

richs09, you're probably right about charging from the rails, but when I first started the instructions said to make sure all electronics was isolated from the frame.  I tried to adhere to that but the motors are grounded to the frame via screws and such anyway, that I don't think it matters that much.

I mentioned "conductive" charging when I think I meant inductive.

@Tom Tee posted:

For batteries you may want to check out the MTO battery website out of Red Lion PA.

Bob Buck is a master at hiding switches and ports.

I have an appointment with Bob next week to look at some Li Ion batteries, a charger and wire harnesses.  I was on his website and decided to call him.  When he found out we lived so close he invited me over to take a look.

I was running my ABBA consist all day yesterday fooling with all the adjustments.  It was very fun.  These engines run so great now as BlueRail Battery.   I was VERY disappointed in the way they ran as a DCS lashup and almost sold them a few times.

I'm looking forward to the permanent battery install.  Bob Delbridge I love the water spout idea.  Maybe I will try to replicate that with a sand tower.

Have Fun!

Ron

You know what's so good about BPRC...If the power goes out in your neighborhood you can still run your trains, even if it is only for another 3 hours!!!

Well  a matter of fact the power did go out here awhile ago with a storm and I was able run trains all day as I was switching on and off various locos through out the black  out.  Really weird trying to find trains in hidden staging with a flash light.  

Much later when the power came back on it was like a meth clinic with a row of chargers, all the "patients" were hooked up on their drip line.

In all reality with the normal operation of a railroad no one engine gets run for 3 hours in a row anyway.  That could get as boring as a Christmas tree loop.

Ron, you will find Bob's workshop is BPRC heaven.  He has a ton of product and is loaded with knowledge and experience.  Like the battery R/C  version of GRJ.

O scale in the basement G scale in the backyard.

Know that most every aspect of his custom home he built himself.

So I was going back through this thread, and I got excited about trying a dead rail install again.

Does the Bluerail App work with Android or only iOs?

I am into RC stuff and the higher the battery the more expensive. The more I use my RC stuff and recharge the battery on every flight I notice the battery starts to give me less flying time as they get older. So if you plan on doing this and using your trains a lot plan on buying replacement batteries. I probably own over a 100 lipo batteries as I use them in my flashlights as well. They have come along way with safety on these batteries. I don’t think you need a recharge bag or ammo box to hold these in anymore.

It's becoming obvious that battery power is here to stay. I have done over a dozen OGauge battery power conversions with various wireless RC systems and all are running well today. I converted a LionChief+ to battery power two years ago and it's fine. OGRR magazine RUN314 includes a complete description of a battery powered BlueRail controlled RS-3 diesel. But, for the record, I still can run conventional AC or DC and TMCC. When done carefully and properly, battery power works just fine.

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

So I was going back through this thread, and I got excited about trying a dead rail install again.

Does the Bluerail App work with Android or only iOs?

Right now IOS... It's my understanding they are developing Android.

@Merlin posted:

I am into RC stuff and the higher the battery the more expensive. The more I use my RC stuff and recharge the battery on every flight I notice the battery starts to give me less flying time as they get older. So if you plan on doing this and using your trains a lot plan on buying replacement batteries. I probably own over a 100 lipo batteries as I use them in my flashlights as well. They have come along way with safety on these batteries. I don’t think you need a recharge bag or ammo box to hold these in anymore.

I fly RC and battery usage is quite different.  With RC Lipos it's high C rate or energy quickly, following by a special charger needed to balance cells.  I've been flying for years.  I know I have not replaced batteries that often.  Some cheap 11.1 2200's swelled up.    I have three 14.8 4500 batts I've been using in a Corsair for 6 Years.

Batts for trains are different.  For one, don't use Lipos.  Use LiIon.  No balance cells leads required.  Also, LiIons should have PCB protection.  This prevents overcharging and excessive discharge.

Batts from DeadRailInstalls and Gscaleinstallations are high quality and safe.  I used a 14.8v 3000mah battery that runs a train for over 3 hours.  They are in the engine with a charge port, so no need to remove and replace.  But I could if I needed to.

My layout is already wired.  But if I was just starting today, there is no way I would wire a layout.  My Battery trains run much better than my track powered trains.

Have Fun!

Ron

Shoot. I have an old (8 years?) Ipad that I don't use anymore. After Apple prevented me from installing a required update and all of my apps basically becoming obsolete, I dumped Apple entirely.

What's the oldest iOs version supported? Maybe I could make that iPad a dedicated train controller.

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

Shoot. I have an old (8 years?) Ipad that I don't use anymore. After Apple prevented me from installing a required update and all of my apps basically becoming obsolete, I dumped Apple entirely.

What's the oldest iOs version supported? Maybe I could make that iPad a dedicated train controller.

I use an old ipad also.  I want to say IOS 10 is on it.  I know it can no longer be updated.  Runs BR just fine.

I have/had a G-scale Bachmann 4-6-0 that has a BlueRail board in it, gave it to my grandkids.  I initially ran it with my Ipad but before I gave it to them I tried it with my Android phone and it also worked, but I had problems (not sure if it was me or the phone).

Anyway, I gave it to them and my daughter let them use her phone to run it during Christmas, she didn't say if they had any problems. Now this was with their first gen board, don't know about the new one.

The BlueRail Trains app (IOS only for now)  will install and work with older as well as newer iPads.

@Ron045: Question about a ground-up install I'm thinking about.  I have a big Premier R2 2-8-8-2 that was originally a PS2 but has no board.  I'm thinking that with its size and all the room in the tender and loco shell, this is a perfect opportunity to try a complete Bluerail + Battery install.

I don't run any DCC at all, everything has always been conventional 3-rail.  I'd like to install something like the Tsunami "Big Stem" decoder in my R-2 because it's a big steam loco and should include an interesting sound system.  But I have a couple questions:

1. I see the Tsunami decoders are listed as "incompatible with 3-rail".  Since I'm thinking of battery, does that mean I'm still OK (i.e. technically I'm running the equivalent of 2-rail without the AC)?
2. If so, does that mean I'm then stuck on battery permanently?  If I installed a switch to try to run off of AC power when not using battery, I'd be dead in the water?
3. Does the Tsunami decoder work with my existing tach reader in the loco (Ps2 tach reader) to coordinate the smoke, or do I need one of GRJ's Chuffers to do that?

I'm willing to put a couple hundred bucks into this loco since it's big and beautiful and I got it cheap, but I don't want to buy something and be stuck with an unusable gadget.

Jeff

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

@Ron045: Question about a ground-up install I'm thinking about.  I have a big Premier R2 2-8-8-2 that was originally a PS2 but has no board.  I'm thinking that with its size and all the room in the tender and loco shell, this is a perfect opportunity to try a complete Bluerail + Battery install.

I don't run any DCC at all, everything has always been conventional 3-rail.  I'd like to install something like the Tsunami "Big Stem" decoder in my R-2 because it's a big steam loco and should include an interesting sound system.  But I have a couple questions:

1. I see the Tsunami decoders are listed as "incompatible with 3-rail".  Since I'm thinking of battery, does that mean I'm still OK (i.e. technically I'm running the equivalent of 2-rail without the AC)?
2. If so, does that mean I'm then stuck on battery permanently?  If I installed a switch to try to run off of AC power when not using battery, I'd be dead in the water?
3. Does the Tsunami decoder work with my existing tach reader in the loco (Ps2 tach reader) to coordinate the smoke, or do I need one of GRJ's Chuffers to do that?

I'm willing to put a couple hundred bucks into this loco since it's big and beautiful and I got it cheap, but I don't want to buy something and be stuck with an unusable gadget.

Jeff

Jeff,

My Atlas AEM 7 with Soundtrax TSU2200 runs on 3 rails AC track power.  I believe the BR board is what makes that possible.

Ron

I have a question regarding blue rail

I use Electric RR cruise commanders to get great slow speed operation from lionel locos that prior to ERR conversion ran like race horses because motor and gear combination isnt designed for scale operation. ERR electronically  corrects the problem.

Are blue rail conversions able to run slowly and not slow down on grades and curves?

So there are kits on deadrail installs that have the decoder and a battery. I assume the Bluerail board itself is separate? If I'm installing it in a premier steam with a big can motor, would you recommend the 5 amp? I imagine it will be doing less than 2 most of the time, and there's a big difference in cost between the 5 amp and 2 amp boards.

Also, I'm assuming I need the external antenna, since the tender is die cast.

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

So there are kits on deadrail installs that have the decoder and a battery. I assume the Bluerail board itself is separate? If I'm installing it in a premier steam with a big can motor, would you recommend the 5 amp? I imagine it will be doing less than 2 most of the time, and there's a big difference in cost between the 5 amp and 2 amp boards.

Also, I'm assuming I need the external antenna, since the tender is die cast.

Jeff,

It it were me, I'd get the 5amp board.  Especially a big engine than might be able to pull a lot.  See this link to the  BlueRail Users Guide.  It discussed the 2 amp and 5 amp board and which one might be right for you.

If you have a metal tender, the recommend the external antenna version.  You can NOT add the antenna later on to a board w/o an external antenna.

This is from the BR users group for a question about a metal tender.  "The design is such that you cannot add a wire and have it function as an antenna.  Go ahead and buy the board with the external antenna.  You can can keep the antenna tucked in the tender as long as the tender shell is made of plastic (most are) and you will be fine.  If the tender shell is metal we recommend that you mount the antenna on the bottom of the tender and connect it through the a hole in the floor of the tender."

You are right, the BR board is sold separately form the kit.  That is because Deadrailinstalls sells more than just BR for loco control.

You might want to talk with Pete Steinmetz at Deadrail Installs.  His kits have 11.1v batteries.  I have an 11.1v (3 Cells) in my 44ton and it is fine.  But in my F7's I put in 14.8v (4 cells).  It's a bigger train with heavy coach cars.  It might be overkill, but I'll always have enough power.  Of course, they are more expensive too.  Pete won't steer you wrong.

Have Fun!

Ron