Anything new coming this year is S?

I am afraid S gauge is being left behind by Lionel and ERR, what was offered last year by Lionel/American Flyer was pathetic. ERR by dropping the Cruise Lite has reduced what is available for Flyer GP diesels. This has me looking at and considering the Soundtraxx Blunami decoder, a way to have DCC without having to purchase another control system, so many options with this decoder, lighting, sound, momentum, etc, and it is all in the decoder. I have one installed in a Trainmaster and I am impressed, so far running on DC but looking to run with my Legacy on 18v AC.

Ray

What Ray said. Last year Lionel commented that if sales of the Legacy Pacific were good they would consider releasing a Legacy Mikado in the future. I would think the Mikado would be the closest S gauge steam engine to production. Beyond that, Lionel has given no hints.

As to what is in their portfolio, A rerelease of the Legacy Challenger could be done as they did for the Y3. Lionel also has all the new tooling used for the FlyerChief 4-8-4. I have one converted to TMCC, it is a nice engine. This could be released as Legacy with minimal tooling costs.

In casual conversations with AM, there are no plans for new engines. They plan to release the revised Pacific with the Vandy tender “sometime.” When I asked specifically about a rerun of the streamlined Hudson they said it was possible but there are currently no plans to do so.

S gauge steam engines from Scale Trains are not likely. Their priority is to get the MTH HO steam engines into production. Even with almost all the tooling received from MTH, ST is more than a year behind their original plans.

Here is a custom made Reading steam engine on a sale table last month at S Fest West. It was not sold at the show. Seller wanted $600 for it. Looking closely at the engines they are all first rate and run well. It should still be available to anyone who wants to buy it.

I wouldn't hold my breath. You might see a Legacy Mikado from Lionel to follow the Pacific since they "found" the tooling. Who knows if that will be next year or 5 years or never. ScaleTrains is the only company that I know of that is bringing new product to market, but they haven't delivered anything yet. Even then, they are starting with the existing tooling for hoppers, boxcars, and cabooses. I've been trying to make S work for me since 2012 and I've about given up. I am not impressed with the performance of the Legacy Berk or Pacific under DCC control, which I run.  I would love S to experience a rebirth, but I just don't see any evidence that it will. I think it will revert to the "builder's scale" of the past with a small number of new products from Lionel and ScaleTrains. Whether or not that is enough to stay in S is a personal choice each modeler will need to make. That's my opinion.

Spoke to a guy at Hennings yesterday - who is a S Helper fan and repair/dealer.  He told me Scale Trains was the one to watch and I also saw a video about S that said the same thing.  I would suspect they are talking about re-releasing the S Helper engines, then beginning new production.  But how long................?  The sands through the hour glass are running out for me.

I am not impressed with the performance of the Legacy Berk or Pacific under DCC control, which I run.

I am looking at the Soundtraxx Blunami, wondering if it might improve Legacy engines performance, I have installed one in an AM Trainmaster an am very impressed with it and all that is in the decoder.

Ray

The Legacy Pacifics are not good performers unless someone likes jerky starts, lurches and ultra fast loops around the layout. I have three, they are all about the same. Changing the control system will not make a difference. The cause is a poor selection of the drive gear ratios. My six older TMCC version of this engine operated similarly. Those engines had the worm gear replaced with a half speed worm sourced from American Models. it completely transformed the engine operation. I doubt that it would be easily possible to swap the worm gear on the Legacy version.

@AmFlyer posted:

The Legacy Pacifics are not good performers unless someone likes jerky starts, lurches and ultra fast loops around the layout. I have three, they are all about the same. Changing the control system will not make a difference. The cause is a poor selection of the drive gear ratios. My six older TMCC version of this engine operated similarly. Those engines had the worm gear replaced with a half speed worm sourced from American Models. it completely transformed the engine operation. I doubt that it would be easily possible to swap the worm gear on the Legacy version.

I agree that they are not the best mechanically, but in this case, it is mostly the Legacy/DCC decoder. I helped Beta test DCC integration for Lionel when John Z. first added it to the Legacy boards. There was (and apparently still is) an issue with the servo control and the gearing that doesn't work well together. It's a compromise and it doesn't like to do slow speed. I took a TMCC Pacific, gutted it, and installed a TCS WowSound decoder with far better results shown below. Still not O, HO, or N scale levels of slow speed operation, but it is MILES ahead of the current model. I would have purchased 6 Pacifics and renumbered them if they were even "acceptable", but they aren't. I would have to do a full electronic package swap and that's just too much of a hassle. I have 15-year-old MTH HO Mikados that run spectacularly on DCS or DCC. This Legacy Pacific is objectively inferior.

Jonathan, thanks for the background. I poorly worded one sentence, what I meant was just switching from Legacy to a DCC control system offers no improvement. Gutting the engine and installing a TCS WowSound decoder is a big job and something few operators would do or should have to do. Even so, the gear ratio is still wrong. At speed step 200 the engine should not be at 200SMPH! My TMCC versions run at about 90SMPH at TMCC speed step 100.  Speed step 40 in R100 mode with the TMCC version is the same speed as speed step 17 out of 200 on the new Legacy version. Lionel should have addressed this. No point in comparing these to the O gauge engines, they are not even close. No HO DCC operator would tolerate this kind of performance. I hope that if Lionel releases a Legacy Mikado they address the gearing. They can do it, the latest run of U33C's/U36C's have a perfect operating speed range, unlike the first two runs of the U33C's.

By the way, no fair torturing us with the DCC sound system in that Pacific that we cannot have with Legacy! It runs about the same as my regeared old TMCC engines, so a great low speed improvement.

@AmFlyer posted:

Jonathan, thanks for the background. I poorly worded one sentence, what I meant was just switching from Legacy to a DCC control system offers no improvement. Gutting the engine and installing a TCS WowSound decoder is a big job and something few operators would do or should have to do. Even so, the gear ratio is still wrong. At speed step 200 the engine should not be at 200SMPH! My TMCC versions run at about 90SMPH at TMCC speed step 100.  Speed step 40 in R100 mode with the TMCC version is the same speed as speed step 17 out of 200 on the new Legacy version. Lionel should have addressed this. No point in comparing these to the O gauge engines, they are not even close. No HO DCC operator would tolerate this kind of performance. I hope that if Lionel releases a Legacy Mikado they address the gearing. They can do it, the latest run of U33C's/U36C's have a perfect operating speed range, unlike the first two runs of the U33C's.

I gutted my Mikado years ago, it is from the original run of them.  It operates like any SHS or AM engine on DC... very slow starts and smoothing running.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@AmFlyer posted:

The Legacy Pacifics are not good performers unless someone likes jerky starts, lurches and ultra fast loops around the layout. I have three, they are all about the same. Changing the control system will not make a difference. The cause is a poor selection of the drive gear ratios. My six older TMCC version of this engine operated similarly. Those engines had the worm gear replaced with a half speed worm sourced from American Models. it completely transformed the engine operation. I doubt that it would be easily possible to swap the worm gear on the Legacy version.

Fair comments, however my sample improved considerably over time with 'break in', interestingly. It will now move smoothly and slowly at a Legacy speed setting of just 5 with six passenger cars in tow. Since I am not planning to double head with another engine, the performance is now OK for my purposes. Nonetheless, the gear ratio is something Lionel needs to address. Part of the routine with obtaining smooth slow starts with the original TMCC Mikes and Pacifics is setting the stall speed as per instructions which one often had to do with their O gauge TMCC engines of that period, too. Not optimal but workable. 

Bob

On a Tangent, a friend gave me a covered hopper S Helper.  The trucks/coupler are gone, the rest is in great shaped.  There is a very skinny column with a tiny screw in it.  I was going to convert it to new Lionel trucks, which would necessitate removal of the column and replacement with a screw, washer(s) and nut.

Opinion:  Should I do it or keep looking for S Helper trucks, which are scarcer then hen's teeth?

Reply is in the Close Coupling thread.

I am hoping American Models gets the new Pacific engines done! I ordered two when first announced.

Is that anything new from a manufacturer or to the posts on this forum?  Sure is a quite time in S gauge.  -- yeah, I know that should be S scale, but...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Hey Tom,

I thought there was a mass die off of all S scale/gauge fans.  Wooo, at least that's not true.

I got to the York bandit meets (firehouses, hotels) and purple hall at the Fairgrounds.  Found nothing.

What would help this hobby is an infusion of new products, but that's apparently not going to happen.

I guess the best hope would be that Lionel would modify the old engines to FlyerChief (Pacific, K5, Atlantic).  Even with updates (DCC and sound) the old stuff doesn't perform as well as the new engines.

Francine

@Francine posted:

Hey Tom,

I thought there was a mass die off of all S scale/gauge fans.  Wooo, at least that's not true.

I got to the York bandit meets (firehouses, hotels) and purple hall at the Fairgrounds.  Found nothing.

What would help this hobby is an infusion of new products, but that's apparently not going to happen.

I guess the best hope would be that Lionel would modify the old engines to FlyerChief (Pacific, K5, Atlantic).  Even with updates (DCC and sound) the old stuff doesn't perform as well as the new engines.

Francine

Don't hold your breath waiting for Lionel.  They seem to be out of the picture by what I've read on the S-trains forum.  Right now AM and S Scale Trains are the only games in town.

What I do to my old Flyer engines is change out the motor for a new can motor.  They run as well as new production and can be converted to DCC if you like.

Because of the lack of S people in Maine, I've been playing more guitar and doing less trains...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

My 3 DCC converted engines all have can motors.  The problem is the tender is the only pickup and contacts get dirty fast.

Other then that, they run pretty well, but with the aging issue, our club is doing less and less and I won't set up a DCC layout.  I'm going to the 2nd floor special with my 4 flyerchief engines with fast track.

Francine

@Francine posted:

My 3 DCC converted engines all have can motors.  The problem is the tender is the only pickup and contacts get dirty fast.

Other then that, they run pretty well, but with the aging issue, our club is doing less and less and I won't set up a DCC layout.  I'm going to the 2nd floor special with my 4 flyerchief engines with fast track.

Francine

Francine,

I  have not run into the dirty contacts or dirty wheel problem on either my home layout or our clubhouse layouts for quite some time. I saw a article on one of the HO sites mentioning cleaning track with mineral spirits, that's reduced maintenance to near zero. Seems not to make any difference with metal or plastic wheels, more running, less cleaning. It takes one or two times but better operations are definitely the result. I run Legacy/TMCC and, the wireless Blunami. Try the mineral spirits on you track, you will be pleased

Ray

@Rayin"S" posted:

Try the mineral spirits on you track, you will be pleased

Ray

Ray is so right about this.  And then you should finish of with a very tiny touch of graphite.  This article has been posted many time, but I'll post it again just as a reminder.  It explains track cleaning and the use of mineral spirits and graphite.  It really does work.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws...ne/index.html?page=9

The LUG meeting in the CAB3/BASE3 with Lionel's Dave Olson just ended. It was worth the time, very informative. The BASE3 looks like customer delivery in April. I asked a question about inclusion of 4-digit addressing in future S gauge Legacy engines. Dave replied that Lionel plans to continue with the DCC compatible version of Legacy in S gauge so 4-digit will not be included. Unfortunately Dave was careful to back up and phase the reply to include "IF" there are any new S gauge Legacy engines they will not have 4-digit address capability. I hope he was just being overly cautious.

On November 3 and 4 American Models previewed new bulkhead flat cars at S Fest in Orland Park, IL. In the past Rich Gajnak often posted information about S scale products, so I'm quoting what he wrote on a different site because this is good news for the S community and for American Models. The photos are his also.

"These cars use the current AM flat car as a base, road names will be as what's currently offered on the flat.  Deck and bulkhead planking are wood, available as Scale or HiRail.  I was informed they should be out in a couple of weeks."

This morning I received an email from Scale Trains, the fishbelly hoppers were received at their Tennessee facility this morning and my on file credit card has been billed. As a prepaid order, my 4 cars will be in the first priority batch to be packed and shipped. The shipment tracking information will be sent in 3 to 5 days.

@AmFlyer posted:

This morning I received an email from Scale Trains, the fishbelly hoppers were received at their Tennessee facility this morning and my on file credit card has been billed. As a prepaid order, my 4 cars will be in the first priority batch to be packed and shipped. The shipment tracking information will be sent in 3 to 5 days.

Me too, though my preorder hasn't arrived yet.  Their website says ETA is the 10th...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Scale trains is working way ahead of their schedule. I just received a second email today with the tracking number and telling me the cars were shipped. I should have them Wednesday or Thursday out here in SoCal.

I thought the fish belly hoppers were slatted for last August, got my confirmation yesterday, just happy that they are coming.

I got email from Chas Ro of a Legacy diesel passenger set in S, but, $899.00, single PA and four cars.

I think Lionel is done for me.

Ray

$900.00 far a PA and four cars with no interiors is a non starter for me.I think LIONEL is giving up on flyer.

Gunny

Big news this morning. The Scale Trains steel rebuilt box cars are in stock and will be shipped out to pre order customers. My credit card has been charged. Looks like we will be receiving a Christmas present from Scale Trains.

@jonnyspeed posted:

I agree that they are not the best mechanically, but in this case, it is mostly the Legacy/DCC decoder. I helped Beta test DCC integration for Lionel when John Z. first added it to the Legacy boards. There was (and apparently still is) an issue with the servo control and the gearing that doesn't work well together. It's a compromise and it doesn't like to do slow speed. I took a TMCC Pacific, gutted it, and installed a TCS WowSound decoder with far better results shown below. Still not O, HO, or N scale levels of slow speed operation, but it is MILES ahead of the current model. I would have purchased 6 Pacifics and renumbered them if they were even "acceptable", but they aren't. I would have to do a full electronic package swap and that's just too much of a hassle. I have 15-year-old MTH HO Mikados that run spectacularly on DCS or DCC. This Legacy Pacific is objectively inferior.

Have not really seriously considered getting back into S but had Gilbert Flyer as a boy so have always had a 'soft spot' for it.  I can see the 'slightly less than smooth' movement on this Pacific but seeing it for the first time, this locomotive is impressive looking. I recently picked up the Lionel O scale Erie same cab number from 2001 which is way too long for scale.

With Christmas a week away, here is my Flyer #310 K5 that I received from Santa at Christmas 1949 in New Orleans. Still have it repainted in PRR green with a tuscan roof.