Atlas acquires Weaver Tooling!

This is great news but hope they make trucks for weaver cars as well! 

This is good news. Thanks Charlie.

Whats interesting is where does Lionel fit into this? I have to go back and listen to Derek's Notch6 broadcast again with Lionel.

Where did the tank car tooling go off to?  I've been wanting to get the Sinclair tank cars, but never had the money when they were offered.

It sounds like atlas got the China made products, Lionel was going after the USA made products.  The Milw Rib side boxcar was the First new USA made product for weaver in a while.

 

As far as trucks go I think Atlas may modify the tooling to use their trucks.... but we will have to wait and see

Good news!

 

Now, where are the switches?!?!?!?

Very good news for both Weaver, Atlas and us as consumers.

Maybe Lionel is in talks to acquire all the US based tooling/molds.

 

Neal Jeter

Sounds good. Hope everything works out.

Just hoping that the Milw rib side boxcars will resume production. Preferably in the US, but China is OK. I have 5 bought directly from Weaver but would like more

That is good news.  Thanks for sharing, Charlie.

 

If referring to metal trucks for the freight cars, they are not made by Weaver.  That is what I was told by Weaver at York (Oct-2014).  Without prying too much, I did walk away with the distinct impression they were piggybacking an order with someone else who used the same trucks.

MTH has been manufacturing the "Weaver diecast trucks", to Weaver's design & specifications for more than a year.

Great news,

 

Now, if Atlas would supply replacement frames for the Weaver Troop sleepers they might just pay for the acquisition of the Weaver tooling after just one production run.. 

 

I think most of us would be willing to pay a fair price for a replacement frame as apposed to coming up with our own home grown solutions for this problem.  

 

Also, those H 30 covered hoppers are very nice models and fit in well with the Atlas 70 ton covered hoppers.

 

Adding the Weaver RS 3 , the RSD4 / 5 and RSD 11 / 12 to the Masters like would also be a great addition to Atlas O.

 

Richard 

I'm glad to see the wagontop box car and the H30 covered hopper may return.  I'm now waiting to see who gets the B60 molds. 

MTH is not making the trucks for weaver. They did in the 90's and Joe from weaver said they own there own tooling for the trucks. This is the message from Joe on facebook. Hi Jeff, I'm not really sure I believe Atlas and Lionel may have something that works. The truck for our cars were made from Weaver tooling which I am looking to sell.

Interesting. Nonetheless, apparently MTH hasn't made them recently, because there are virtually no "Weaver" diecast trucks to be found, and all the dealers I've talked to said they haven't seen any in quite awhile. If anyone knows a source for them, it would be great to get that information.

Theyt were manufactured through MTH for Weaver. When everything was going on in China, Weaver could no longer get trucks manufactured from its former supplier. Joe worked out a deal with MTH to have the trucks made through them.

This is interesting news about Atlas acquiring some of the tooling from Weaver. Not sure what Lionel got?

Don

Glad to hear that they've acquired the telephone pole molds!

 I wonder what will become of the 50' flat with 35' trailers..   I loved those TOFC's.

 

 

I think this is just GREAT news for all of the "O" Gauge hobby.

Good!

I don't know what you consider "recently", but my local hobby shop has been ordering, and receiving, the Weaver diecast freight car trucks (both 3-Rail and 2-Rail types), regularly since mid 2014. When the announcement came last month about Weaver's closing, I rushed over to the hobby shop, and purchased all the 3-Rail and 2-Rail trucks he still had in stock. Naturally, everybody in the country is now "out of stock", until someone decides how to market the MTH manufactured-to-Weaver-specifications trucks in the future.

Richard, the molds for the Weaver RS3 and RSD4/5 were not part of the Atlas purchase according to the announcement above.  That makes sense if you think about it as Atlas already has produced (imported) these engines in their Trainman line.

 

That may open the door for Lionel to purchase the Weaver ALCo RS3 and RSD4&5 molds and then offer scale-sized, highly-detailed Legacy versions of these engines.  This would be a great opportunity for Lionel to make a substantial upgrade to their current Traditional-line (and very toy-like!!) ALCo RS3 model.   At least that's what I'm hoping for anyway!!

Don how do you know they were. You guys seem like you know it all. I called MTH and they said they was not made by them anymore and Joe told me they had there own tooling is what the man said.    

Glad to hear that Atlas will be acquiring Weaver's China tooling.  Should put a few extra dollars into the pockets of the Weaver folks and present the opportunity for re-runs of some of these models for us hobbiest.

 

As Richard comments, I hope that Atlas does offer replacement frames for previously produced Troop Sleepers, Kitchen, Hospital, and MOW cars.  I know that I would still like to add another two or three Sleepers to my current troop train.

 

I'm looking forward to the announcement on the Maxi-IV Well Cars.  Some folks might be disappointed to see the minimum radius of O-72, but as this is the new normal on my rebuild, I will have no issues.  Guess O-72 makes sense as the previous Gundersons with the 40' containers needed O-54.

 

Jim

Great news indeed!

-Greg

A friend that is at the nmra nation train has confirmed  for me that only the tooling mentioned  in their press release is the only tooling purchased

I sure hope something comes of this....and truck pairs again become available,  not priced more than some complete cars, or only modern roller bearing....."exciting time"?

Terrifying time!

There is a God!

Chessie, Rail (Don) not only had a business relationship with Weaver, but also a personal relationship with Joe and his employees.  That's why I believe he knows more than most of us.  Don can comment further if he so chooses, or correct me if I'm wrong.

Very quick story...When Weaver's closing was announced, I immediately contacted Don to see if he could "call in a favor" with Joe on my behalf.  I was looking to purchase a good-sized quantity of the 3-rail die-cast Bettendorf-style trucks and die-cast couplers (which as we all know have been so hard to find), and man did Don come through for me!!

Joey Joe at weaver told me he made there own trucks i don't care what buisness relationship he had with him they can not tell everything to protect patent rights.  

 

Hi Jeff, I'm not really sure I believe Atlas and Lionel may have something that works. The truck for our cars were made from Weaver tooling which I am looking to sell. This what the owner Joe said. 

while i do own some weaver cars, i don't understand why the supply of trucks is such a big issue.  do they need frequent replacement?

Great news Charlie!! Thanks so much!!

I wasn't familiar with these containers by name, so I called upon Google.  Looks like Atlas has already announced these containers for HO a few years ago.

 

Here's the LINK that shows the containers that were produced for HO.  It will be interesting if these are the same paint schemes for O-Gauge.  I was hoping for containers with the CSX "how tomorrow moves" intermodal logo (as pictured on a real train in Atlas-O's Golden Spike Club newsletter that previewed the new cars), so I guess we'll know more in September.

 

David

Yay!  I am sure we will see the troop transport cars in the future.  I was so bummed that Weaver cancelled those cars.

       
        Jeff, I never said that Weaver didn't own the tooling.   What Joe told you could very well be true.  Read what Hot Water and Rail (Don) stated above.  Don't you think it's possible that when Weaver lost their original manufacturer, and the truck tooling was already over in China, they contracted with MTH to produce the trucks using Weaver's tooling?  To me, that's very possible...and another reason why I believe Rail and Hot know what they're talking about.  Under that scenario, Joe told you the truth...the tooling belongs to him and is therefore his to sell.

As I mentioned before, Weaver did have their own tooling for trucks, but lost their China connection,so,Joe made arrangements with Mike Wolfe to have the trucks made by the same manufacturer MTH used. You have to remember that what is in China is stuck in China. Therefore, if anyone wants to manufacture any Weaver products, ie, the Bettendorf Trucks, the H30 Hopper, or the B&O Wagon Tops, which were made in China, will still be made in China. Weaver Brass locos were made in China, along with the structures, and probably the telephone poles. 

I have known Joe for many years, having dealt with him and most of the staff on club car projects, and supplying various loads for hoppers and gondolas. I have been to the facility countless times, and even have Joe's personal cell phone number. Possibly, whoever you talked to at MTH either had no knowledge of the relationship Joe had with MTH regarding the trucks, or was not at liberty to disclose that information. 

I also Know Mike Wolfe fairly well, and many of the MTH staff, and have been there several times. I was in Mike's office several years ago when he was in contact with Lionel, Atlas and several other major manufacturers when he was trying to get everyone to do just one show at York because of the economic downturn around 2009. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time. There have been many instances that I have withheld the above mentioned information because I was asked not to say anything. I, unlike many so called high ranking persons who leak information under the condition of anonymity, honor these requests. Quite honestly, I was surprised about this recent announcement of Atlas purchasing Weaver tooling, as Joe told me that Lionel had purchased tooling. Either Lionel only bought only a certain

amount, or backed out of the deal. I'll let this all play out, as I'm not going to bother Joe just for curiosity's sake.

Don

 

Maybe we'll see a 2-8-0 in a Western road!

Good Scoop!

 

Chief Bob (Retired)

Don, that is very interesting. Thank you for the explanation.

 

I just hope that someday someone will make the Weaver trucks again in 2 rail and 3 rail because there are a lot of Weaver cars out there and sometimes I can only find a car in 3 rail so I need 2 rail trucks and I'm sure the reverse happens out there to some 3 railers. Atlas will probably change the mounting system on the tooling for the cars they got so that their trucks work with those cars instead of Weaver trucks.

Thanks Don clearing that up! 

It's good to hear Weaver products will return as Lionel, but what will happen with the prices.

 

Jack   

Yow KNOW what WILL happen with the prices.

 

Chief Bob (Retired)

Great news!

 

Peter

Very good news!

Thank you for the information!

Joe,

Yep, I noticed that when I re read the post. I never got around to purchasing a Weaver RS 3, 4/5 or an 11 /12. If Lionel has this tooling I hope they can produce these engines.

 

Richard

I'm glad to hear this but a bit confused. It's been widely believed that MTH acquired the tooling for the Weaver U25B and VO-1000 and that these were modified by MTH to make their versions of the two locomotives. Weaver did not produce any U25B or VO-1000 locomotives after MTH came out with theirs, adding to the presumption that the molds were the same. I've personally had the Weaver and MTH VO-1000 bodies in hand, and while there are differences in the mounting that prevent a straight body swap, it is certainly plausible that the MTH body is made from the same mold, just with some modifications.  The basic structure and external detailing appear to be identical, just some differences in how the body connects to the frame. 

 

Comments, clarifications? Could it be that Weaver retained ownership of the molds and only leased them to MTH? Or is the widely held story that the MTH U25B and VO-1000 used modified Weaver tooling just an urban legend?

Jus glad somebody finally did something with the maxi IV and 53ft containers, now if we could some csx and JB Hunts with the trailer chassis would be so awesome...

Talk about a lot of great news in one press release. Time to get my orders ready!!!

I don't know about the tooling, but check The Public Delivery Track for the cars. Beth shows them in stock on her website. 

There are other Central Vermont and Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific paint schemes to put on the ALCo RS-11. The CV bright green & bright yellow scheme. The DW&P red body scheme. The DW&P Black body and red ends scheme. The RS-11s moved between CV and DW&P.

 

 

The Soo Line had only one V-1000. It was a very basic scheme. Would that ever be included in a production run?

 

Andrew

They need to make complete Maintenance of Way train sets now that the Troop Sleeper and Kitchen cars are added to the production line.

 

Andrew

It is going to be interesting to see the products and pricing from both Atlas and Lionel. Lionel has the American line, and will supposedly be manufacturing in the US. Atlas has the tooling in the orient. One interesting aspect that occurred to me when someone mentioned the TOFC line is that the flat cars are US made, but the trailers were produced in China. Lionel would most likely have to use its own tooling to produce trailers should it reintroduce the TOFC line.

I think Atlas will be the first to put product to market, as Lionel has to set up the manufacturing facility in NC, whereas everything is in place in China. Unless Atlas would have to move the tooling over there. The press release didn't mention anything about the truck tooling, so that will be another interesting aspect. It will also be interesting to see if Atlas does anything with the steam program, having produced only one engine in the past. 

Don

Following marketing trends, I converted several remaining Weaver cars to die cast T&C’s years ago. With the long shortage experienced a few years back, I grabbed the die cast T&C’s when they were finally available again.

All the other Weavers were LD cars already. None of this affects me as I have everything required to satisfy the fallen flags railroads.

Being in the production and R&D consumer business over 30 years, I learned how to play the game in how overseas companies control us.

 

My only interest going forward in O is new tooling of freight cars.

O scale could still use additional rolling stock models like HO has to complete the mix.

Other than that, I’m done collecting rolling stock.

As for others, I’m glad to see the Weaver products continue on. I just hope the prices will not be increased. If so, with the attrition of O scale, it will be a questionable decision by the remaining companies.

 

Good luck!

With regard as to why the trucks are important, a lot of us amateurs as well as Brother

Love who builds the great cabooses, and many others who can't buy commercially rolling stock they want, use a lot of these or any trucks they can get their hands on.  These were cost effective...not the price of an Atlas car or more as are some brass "O scale" trucks (and neediing wheelsets changed out) , and even others from the big two, and they dried up before Weaver ceased.  The low cost plastic archbars from Lionel had dried up before the Weaver's.  As others above, I bought Weaver trucks, especially archbars, anywhere I could find them, but dealers, they too, drying up, shutting doors, only seemed to carry a few at a time.

I, too, hope the Weaver 2-8-0 reappears in western roadnames.

I would hope that one of the remaining train manufactures acquires the Weaver wood chip hopper cars.

 

    Bill T.

Well, the tooling is going to a great company that manufactures the 2nd best "Wow Products". Maybe there will be steam engines made in 3-Rail by Atlas.

Were the Weaver wood chip hoppers USA made. I would like to see someone make another run of those because I am having a difficult time locating any.

Yes I wpuld like to see them made again. I have managed to find 8 different ones so far. Lionel is making one, a western Maryland. Two if you count one in a ready to run set. If Lionel bought the USA tooling they may have been included in their deal. Seems Atlas got some of the off shore tooling but no mention of the wood chip hoppers....Paul

 

I don't see Lionel producing the Weaver RS-3 when they already have the K-Line RS-3.

 

Stuart

 

 

Was never able to find any WC cars. They never reached full production.

I would consider having Weavers re-issued wood chip cars however…

Never crazy about their 2 bay hoppers, reminded me of those old Right Of Way Industries hoppers with the chunky details.

The top add on frame looks to be a quick n dirty solution in making a wood chip car.

I would much rather have the one in the photo.

 

       
       
Stuart, Lionel doesn't have the former K-Line RS3 tooling, Williams by Bachmann does.

For my likes and needs the Weaver flat cars and gondolas were some of their finest work, Sad they were not listed as tooling acquired by Atlas.

 

 

Yes, good news.

1 - I presume that Atlas will make most of it's initial "Weaver profits" by simply marketing new underbody kits for the Troop Cars....with plastic visible details attached to a plain steel floor. Invisible cast-in underbody detail is just that: invisible.  

 

2- Atlas offered one scale steam loco - a USRA 0-6-0 switcher - that functioned so badly as a switcher that I sold it...the drivers' counterweights were inaccurate...the tether would fall out...a part (I forget what) fell off...

So - if they go die-cast scale steam 2-8-0's, let's hope that they stick with un-modified Weaver plans, and are inspired by those in any future new designs.

OOPS!  My bad!

 

Stuart

 

 

I have a friend that was waiting for the troop cars.  Hopefully some day he will be able to get them.

Congrats to Atlas I wish them well in this endeavor. 

But their price structure is out of my comfort range so secondary market for Weaver for me....although I have not bought a O scale train car of any kind in months....I think I beat my habit......after all I have 100's already!

The mod to make the wood chip hoppers was a very simple process. I got a kit from Joe when I was down for the final sale. I want to convert a two nay hopper to a wood chip car. I'll post some pics. 

I would imagine Lionel may be interested in doing the wood chip cars again. They were very successful, and I was busy making loads for them. To answer Terrance's question, they were made in Northumberland. 

Don

Steve,

I believe the flats and gons are part of the Lionel acquisition. The wood side gons are some of my favorites. The TOFC's were very popular, but I'm surprised the weatherd 3 bay hopper on the 50 foot flat wasn't too successful. Joe also said the gons didn't meet expectations. The same thing happened with the gons done in the 90's. 

Don

That's an interesting comment by Joe on thelow sided gons because the Prr versions are tough to find. However I can understand why they failed to develop interest as those cars are long gone. They were popular back in the early 1900's

I would have liked to see Atlas purchase the Roadrailers and GP 38 tooling.

The Roadilers would sell and the GPs with upgrades and proto-specific details could be  done for 38 38-2 39 40 and 40-2 models.

Interesting EMD however the Weaver GP 38 is almost a solid mold and probably could not be done in a cost effective manner. A modular body design would most definitely work for your idea however that would be several new molds.

Great news!  Still waiting for a Boston and Maine troop sleeper express car.  AND THE SWITCHES!!

This is very good news!

Mike CT thanks for some interesting information. Unfortunately, the Atlas O trainman RS-3 is different than the Weaver RS-3. You can see the hood height difference at the cab area of the Trainman when compared to the Weaver RS-3.  Plus the Trainman RS-3 has dual sealed beam headlights molded in at the ends whereas the Weaver RS-3 is a single beam headlight.

Delighted to see a continuation of several of my Weaver favorites....

Does anyone know who purchased the tooling for the RPO and the PRR B60b's?  And the B&O wagontop boxcars and PRR H-30 covered hoppers?

Ed

Ed you need to reread the announcement....

 

“It was with sadness that we heard Weaver Models was shutting down operations,” said Paul Graf, CEO of Atlas Model Railroad Company, Inc. “However, we are pleased to announce that we will be bringing many of their models back to the market so that they can be enjoyed by a new generation of model railroaders. These products will fit right in with our existing lines and we are committed to bringing them to market with the high quality that you’ve come to expect from Atlas.”

Tooling acquired in the agreement includes the 2-8-0, U25B, RS11 and VO-1000 locomotives, the Troop Sleeper and Kitchen Cars, the Pullman Bradley Coaches, the War Emergency Gondola,the Wagontop Box Car; and the H30 Covered Hopper. In addition, the molds for the 20’ Containers and telephone poles have also been obtained.

I would have suspected Atlas O got the B60's and the RPO... after all, the RPO & the B60's are foreign made and Atlas O did get the Pullman Bradleys!

 

I would be shocked if the H30 hoppers are released anytime soon. There was a LOT of stock at blowout prices  for those cars.

 

Thanks, prrhorseshoecurve.  I guess I read it too fast.

Ed

I did not want to start a new topic so I ask the questions here. In all that I have read here and on the weaver thread. I either did not see or hear on notch 6 about the wood chip hoppers. Did anyone get them along with the tank cars and mechanical reefers. And will all parties that got weaver dies will they offer more then one road number like weaver did.....Paul

Paul,

 

My understanding that all the US made products/tools are likely going to Lionel.  This has not been made official and may not be finalized.  The cars you are asking about were all US made.

 

J2M

As J2m mentioned, Lionel acquired the USA tooling with plans to do custom and limited runs produced in North Carolina. The tankers mech reefers and wood chip cars are part of that tooling. Lionel also has the pad printing equipment, and remaining warehouse inventory. 

Don

Does anyone know what became of the tooling for the outside braced wooden boxcars? I believe this tooling originally came from Crown Model Products.

 

 

That car was also USA made, and probably in the hands of Lionel as well.

Don

Speaking of weaver, I was a member of their club for this year, and have not yet received my club cars. I am beginning to think that they are not coming at all. Does anyone know about this?

I am very pleased to see that the Weaver line (telephone) poles originally designed by our own forum member Neal Schorr were picked up by Atlas O.  I think they are the best on the market.

 

George

Thanks J2m and rail for that information. Hopefully it won't be too long of a wait to see those items again................Paul

I am happy to read your post if it's 100% correct it's great news. Many of Weavers products were top quality.

Good news but to be a little negative when AtlasO starts using the new tooling can you imagine the prices they are going to be charging.

 

I loved Weaver for all the New England offerings that I haven't been getting from MTH, Lionel, and AtlasO.  Hope AtlasO keeps up with what Weaver was doing even at the higher prices.

So far there has been nothing released on the fate of the B60 molds.  I would think that Atlas would have made a big deal about getting them, but since they haven't I'm afraid the molds went to someone else or are still available.  I hope someone picks them up because I need a few more with new numbers for my express/mail train.

Some time ago there was much excitement about Atlas acquiring some of the former K-Line molds?  I don't remember seeing anything offered from them.  I hope the Weaver molds do not suffer the same fate.

RMT & Lionel have K-Line.

I was close to Jim Weaver (sadly deceased) at that time and Atlas did NOT acquire the k-line tooling, it was offered use of it by Bachmann/Kader.  When Atlas received pricing for the items it wanted to produce, Atlas O decided that it would be uneconomical for them to market the items and withdrew from the arrangement, as did Lionel a year or so later.

 

J2M

I would love to see Atlas be able to mod the molds for the Pullman-Bradley cars so they could offer the correct window pattern for Seaboard:

 

 

 

The 3 windows on the right end (both sides) have been swapped on my model as compared to the original Weaver car:

 

 

 

It was tricky cutting them out, I had to swap one side for the other to get them in the correct pattern.  I have another I'd like to do (thanks again Mike!) but keep putting it off.

 

DOH!!!  I forgot, with the swapping of the windows it also required me to reposition a few seats, plus some seats had to be turned around to face the other direction.  Doable for a modeler, but doubtful Atlas would go to the trouble of making new molds.  Oh well, good thought while it lasted

 

I also hope Atlas is open to new roadnames and paint schemes.  Some of their hoppers are the same types as owned by Seaboard Air Line, all they need is paint/lettering to make them accurate.

With all the talk about who got what tooling was there any mention about the tooling for the Baldwin Sharknose DR-6-4-20  /  PRR BP-20.

 

 

 

 

russ

So who got the molds and tooling for Weaver's Milwaukee Road ribbed-side boxcars?

OK so they got the tooling, big deal.  How long before they get it up and running?  They still don't have the U23B Locomotives that has been promised to us back in 2013. Every time I go to YORK, I have asked about these engines and seems to always get the run around from the Atlas people?  Go figure!  So what will it take to get this new tooling up and running, they probably will have to ship it over seas?  We will see?

Max,

 

My suggestion would be that you start a separate thread asking about the Weaver 2015 Club Cars.  My guess is that you question on this thread may get lost by anyone who has the answer.

 

Unless the cars are already en route, they probably are not coming.

 

Perhaps someone from OGR could ask the question directly to the owners of Weaver.

 

Jim