Before I get rid of my Ross Switches

quote:

Originally posted by rrman
Ross switch are flawless and worth the investment . Trains go through quietly and smoothly, not bumpty bump of K-Lines. Also had to insulate parts of KLines rails because engine rollers shorted out to stock rails .

I too have been having problems with the Z motors . Been sending them back to ZStuff for repair. Dennis claims that the latest batch had quality control issues. Problem is that the stud on the bull gear is hitting the micrswitch cam shutting off motor prematurely. I have sent Dennis an electrical fix to overcome those problems, he says thanks, so don't know if he will follow through.

So don't ditch the Ross turnouts itself just the motors. Plenty of good suggestions above. If the ZStuff motors don't stand up I may be crawling under the layoout to add some quick throw motors.

Very informative post. I can accept that explainaton. The design looks very solid. Too bad they don't make them out of more durable materials.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey Trogdon:
I don't know about the "D" motors most seem to use with Ross turnouts, but as regards the track switches themselves, ...

That seems to be the elephant in the room. The majority of the people who post opinions about switches rate Ross switches highly, but on the other hand, it appears quite a few people have problems with the switch motors and electronics they use with Ross switches.

So far I have only used Fastrack switches. They have been very easy to use and very reliable in operation, pretty much plug and play.

I know Fastrack switches aren't a solution for many people who want more realism in the track and more switch options, so I'm not saying Fastrack is the answer.

I enjoy reading these topics on switches since switches add great enjoyment to layout operation, but if they don't work properly also cause some of the greatest frustration in layout operation. If I ever build a large permanent layout and consider using a different track system, it's going to be difficult to choose the system because from what I have read here on the board, none of the other systems have switches that operate as reliably as what I am used to with the Fastrack switches. Ross switches may be the best from a mechanical standpoint, but as far as reliable switch operation, the system is only as strong as it's weakest link. If the electronics/motor package installed with a Ross switch is problematic, it is going to decrease the enjoyment in operating the switches. I guess you can admire the high quality construction of the switch while you are getting a close up view as you are constantly fiddling with the switch motor trying to get the switch to operate properly. It sounds like the Ross/tortoise combination works very well, but never having tried it, it appears somewhat complicated to set up. I guess that is a trade off if you want more realism on the layout.

I have over 100 Ross switches on my layout. Switches are thrown by Tortoise or old twin-coil machines (NJI, Tenshodo) or by Caboose Industries #208s manual ground throws. Operation is flawless. Having seen DZ switch machines on several layouts, I would never have one on mine. My opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by DPC:
You do know that graphite conducts electricity? It's carbon and carbon conducts so if it gets to the little circuit board in that DZ? Poof.
I suggest using a silicone lube so it will be plastic compatible.
David

All that is inside is several diodes and a microswitch. Very simple to open up (one screw) and all parts are accesiable, nothing falls out. The bull gear that changes the points arm position has a stud that hits a cam causing this microswitch to change contacts cutting off motor power at end of stroke. Unfortunately there is no adjustments that I see, so luck of draw the combination of microswitch internal contact adjustment, cam imperfections, screw tension etc that seems to make the motor work 100% perfectly, or not so much. I have used graphite on the Z1000 with varying luck, but no electrical failures. The 14VAC voltage is low enough and graphite spread out enough (unless you drown the motor in graphite) to not create a conductive path, IMO.

What type of silicon lubricant are you using here?

Only way I see to retroactively add under table motors to installed turnouts is to place the throw wire besides the throwbar. Don't know a way (unless have superman's xray eyes) to exactly dead center spot a wire under the throwbar without lifting turnout and ruining ballast (minor) or incur possible turnout/track damage (major).

quote:

Don't know a way (unless have superman's xray eyes) to exactly dead center spot a wire under the throwbar without lifting turnout and ruining ballast (minor) or incur possible turnout/track damage (major).

There is a way.

1) Move the throwbar half way so that the switch points are centered.

2) Note where the hole in the throwbar falls relative to the roadbed/homasote or whatever next to the turnout. I like to stick a small nail through the hole and make a mark below.

3) Move the throwbar all the way in toward the switch so that you can see the mark you made. Drill a small (1/8" or so) hole at the mark all the way through the roadbed and subroadbed.

4) Use a 5/8" or 3/4" Forstner bit to drill from underneath. This bit drills a smooth hole with a flat bottom. Put some masking tape on the shaft of the bit to mark the thickness of the roadbed+subroadbed. I like to put a couple of flat strips across the shaft so I have spinning "flags" when drilling. When the tape touches your plywood, the top of the bit will be at the level of the top of the roadbed.

5) use a small X-acto knife or small screwdriver to clean out the top of the hole.

We used this method to add a bunch of under-table Tortoises to Bill Bramlage's layout after the track was all in place.

Dewey,
Thanks for instructions and picture. If I were doing this, I might also use a thin tin plate "insurance" between the foam and throwbar just in case drill breaks through, the plate could keep drill point from splintering bar (I am a great believer in Murphys law).

Good idea to armor the throwbar Sam. I did this Tortoise procedure when I was much younger. Today I am too shaky for anything close to precision work and things happen.

Maybe I am late to the story and missing something, but I don't understand why Steve at Ross and the principal at Z Stuff[Dennis?] aren't all over this switch problem. They are sure getting some bad reviews that will eventually hurt both suppliers,at least short term, if not solved. I know the track turnouts themselves are not at fault but the Z 1000s seem to be the default motor for Ross.

While I Haven't retrofitted any switches with under the table machines.
I don't think it'd be hard to do.
The switch points don't move but a 1/4 inch so a 7/16 hole would be plenty.

Sam the silicone lube I was talking about is RTE silicone lube it won't harm plastic and is non-conductive .comes in a tube about the size of shampoo so it'd lube a hundred switches easy .

David

quote:

Originally posted by DPC:
Sam the silicone lube I was talking about is RTE silicone lube it won't harm plastic and is non-conductive .comes in a tube about the size of shampoo so it'd lube a hundred switches easy .
David

Thanks for lube source, will check on line for supplier.

Hi All,

It appears that there are a number of unhappy modellers using or trying to use Z-Stuff DZ-1000 switch machines. I'm truly sorry for the grief this has caused anyone. Z-Stuff stands behind all our products and fixes or replaces problem devices. We have had some problems caused by having to replace a part that was no longer manufactured and the replacement is causing us problems. We are currently looking at engineering and design changes to make the switches as 100% rock solid as they can be.

The changes to the DZ-2500 show that when we find problems we make modifications to improve the design. The newest 'C' version of the DZ-2500 is rock solid, The recently added gold contacts were a result of a customer in Florida having to clean contacts. Samples were sent to him, which he tested for 3-4 months. He was VERY happy with the solution, so we have up dated the design so the DZ-2500C now has the gold plated contacts and significantly better operation.

Z-Stuff has always asked customers to return problematic product directly to us for this reason. We learn about problems and work to fix them and make improvements to our designs.

We're only a phone call or e-mail away.

Thanks for posting Dennis Z.

Yes me too, thanks Dennis. I've worked with a friend on some DZ2500-Ross issues and he has had some issues with the early motors, all replaced and working very well now. I think the Z Stuff is start of the art, and somewhat delicate, but when fine tuned, it works extremely well. Most of our issues, after getting the latest version of the 2500s, was due to the Legacy base. An amplifier booster solved all the remaining issues. All works great.

Thanks for the post Dennis. I have 11 DZ-2500s operational at present with quite a few more to go. I am very happy with them on my Atlas switches and have used them on Fastrack switches as well with great success.
Ron

quote:

Originally posted by RailfanRon:
Thanks for the post Dennis. I have 11 DZ-2500s operational at present with quite a few more to go. I am very happy with them on my Atlas switches and have used them on Fastrack switches as well with great success.
Ron

Fastrack? What are the mechanical details if you don't mind? Is it the manual Fastrack switches you used them with?

Yes it is the manual ones. I took off the switch stand, built an adaptor to go in the slot and added an extension throw bar to the existing one. I ran five of them on my Christmas layout last year. They worked perfectly. I didn't set up the layout this year. Second granddaughter is 16 months old.
Ron

Thanks. That's interesting...I could see doing that.

Someone in this thread mentioned using dz machine on an atlas switch. Can anyone describe how that was done? Thanks

The DZ machines come with metal 'throw connectors', one for use with GG, one for Ross switches and one for Atlas switches. They have slightly different shapes that conform to the needs of each different mfgr turnouts. You just need use the Atlas 'throw connector' to connect the 'hole' on the Z machine to the hole on the track throw tab that moves the track contacts.

Look on the Z stuff web site there will probably be more info there as well. I think you would have to use the Atlas accessory board to get the derailing feature installed.

Ralph

I have the Dz2500s hooked to Atlas switches and they can be wired for non derailing directly. I don't know about the 1000s. I set the TMCC address first from a wiring station on my buss with alligator clips. To mount them I have a flat spot on the right of way next to the throw bar, a little bigger than the machine and clear of any roadbed. I drill a hole for the wiring in the proper spot. I then mount the machine on it with double stick tape and hook up the spring. I am very careful to get the machine parallel to the track ties and properly set for throw. Then I wire to my buss and check the throw with the top button on the machine. If it isn't right I adjust it on the double stick tape. Once right I slide a 1/4in. square by 1 1/4in. long piece of pine pre-drilled with 1/8in. holes under the machine's mounting bracket and screw it down with the long screws that came with the machine. These are the ones that are used to mount the pushbutton but I use them on the switch machine. DO NOT screw them down to TIGHT. If they are to tight the machine body will warp enough to cause the switch to not throw reliably. Check for TMCC operation and your done. Attention to detail seems to work well. I have 10 operational at present and quite a few more to go. None have failed to switch completely once installed and each has been switched hundreds of times.
Ron

Another alternative to all of the above, is to use Lionel switch motors mounted under the table. You know when they throw, non- derail is simple as well as signal hook up. Just another idea. I've even installed under table mounted Lionel switch motors to operate a Lionel 022 switch.

Hi All,

 

Sorry about anyone's grief with the DZ-1000. We had some part problems that are now fixed. With the new part (which can be replaced in any older machine) they are now as reliable as they were in 1999 when we introduced them. If anyone has a problematic machine of a bunch of them, please send them back to us and we will put in the new part. The DZ-2500 is now rock solid as well with a new Gold contact for the wiper. We continue to listen to customer problems which is why we have people send product directly to us so we can see the problems and fix them short term and devise long term product improvements.

 

Dennis Zander

Z-Stuff for Trains

420 Mills St.

Hinsdale, IL 60521

585-377-0925