DCS App Updater for iOS is in the Apple iOS App Store

Thanks Barry,  Are there any peculiar steps in performing the new iOS software upgrade?

Barry Broskowitz posted:

As of right now, DCS App 2.0.1 is available in the Apple iOS App Store.

Thanks Barry, will be updating the TIU tonight.

Android version in googlestore

This is weird,  go to the apples App Store and look at updates available MTH app not listed.  Open the app and it ask me if I want to update.  I say yes and it opens the App Store, where there is no option to update, only open the app.  Any ideas?

Gary,

Export the app's data first. Next, delete the app from your iOS device and then search for it in the App Store. Then, download it as if for the first time and import your exported file. You won't be charged again.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Gary,

Delete the app from your iOS device and then search for it in the App Store. Then, download it as if for the first time. You won't be charged again.

First backup the data,  will do

My  update appeared as it will normally would in the App Store list of updates. 

Android came up in Googlestore and updated.

What are the updates about?

The published list of bug fixes is shown below. There is a modest list of trivial corrections for bugs affecting a small segment of users. Hence the upgrade 2.0.0 to only 2.0.1. What is this stuff? The big bugs haven’t been addressed. The variable voltage control still “trips out”, either lurching to high voltage, or becoming stuck at certain points leaving trains to coast off or crash.  MTH has confirmed that they know about this bug, so why didn’t they fix it? I have certainly heard rumors of an elitist, cultural disrespect for conventional operators in their ranks. They also knew about many bugs affecting basic Legacy locomotive operation, like non-functioning RPM’s, a lack of braking effects and others. Has MTH’s flawed (arguably sabotaged) implementation of basic Legacy control been made as part of a broader and deliberate attempt to make their DCS products appear more favorable at the expense of Lionel products? These are logical questions that one must be ask under these circumstances. So, after waiting almost 6 months for this bug-ridden app to get fixed, this is what we get? 

Another conspiracy theory!  Just when I though the Republic was safe.

What has Lionel done to enable their equipment to control DCS?

MartyE posted:

My  update appeared as it will normally would in the App Store list of updates. 

Boy aren’t you lucky.  LOL

Yep. Living right. 

Well that was fun.  My old laptop just crashed.  All my sound files gone, legacy files gone.  Now I need to find a cheap laptop.

Gary, you could buy a cheap flash drive and back up train (& other) files to it.  You can do this manually, or try something like GoodSync.

I only have the free app with the 4.99 upgrade. Do I still need this upgrade? And if so, then the free app and the 4.99 upgrade again? Can I skip this version?

MartyE posted:

My  update appeared as it will normally would in the App Store list of updates. 

as did mine.  all is well

superwarp1 posted:

Well that was fun.  My old laptop just crashed.  All my sound files gone, legacy files gone.  Now I need to find a cheap laptop.

Gary, depending upon the damage to your hard drive, you might be able to access all those files by removing the damaged drive and putting it in an external hard drive enclosure/case that can be accessed via USB drag & drop.  Cost is around $20.

RJR posted:

What has Lionel done to enable their equipment to control DCS?

Im glad you brought this up  

From what I understand, MTH refuses to release the DCS command protocol to third parties for development of software to run MTH equipment. So, the answer to your question is Lionel cannot enable DCS operation.

Lionel, on the other hand, did release the TMCC/Legacy protocol in the following document: http://www.lionel.com/lcs/reso...tocol-Spec-v1.22.pdf.

The MTH app operates DCS engines flawlessly on my layout. Meanwhile, this same app has a severely crippled implementation of Legacy control. It is not unreasonable or conspiratorial to state that a business motivation exists to diminish the appeal or function of a competitor’s product. 

GregR posted:

 Meanwhile, this same app has a severely crippled implementation of Legacy control. It is not unreasonable or conspiratorial to state that a business motivation exists to diminish the appeal or function of a competitor’s product. 

 

 

How so?  I find the MTH app pretty good for running Legacy.  While it's not fully compatible with LCS and some functionality of Legacy yet it does a very good job at offering a uniform control application.  I'd be interested to hear why  you feel it "crippled" your Legacy implementation.

MartyE posted:

GregR posted:

 Meanwhile, this same app has a severely crippled implementation of Legacy control. It is not unreasonable or conspiratorial to state that a business motivation exists to diminish the appeal or function of a competitor’s product. 

 

 

How so?  I find the MTH app pretty good for running Legacy.  While it's not fully compatible with LCS and some functionality of Legacy yet it does a very good job at offering a uniform control application.  I'd be interested to hear why  you feel it "crippled" your Legacy implementation.

The app does a great job making an engine move forward and backward. And to be fair, bell and quilling whistle functions also work. However, automatic ramping of diesel RPM’s has been disabled in the software.  All you get is the flat sound of idle RPM’s, unless you go to the hassle of switching screens to make a manual adjustment to RPM for each increase in speed. Automatic RPM ramping is a basic feature that has been available since the early 90’s, even on some of the cheapest engines with Trainsounds or Locosounds chips. It’s like MTH has pushed Lionel products 30 years into the past. You might as well have the flat buzz of an E-unit. Others have noted the absence of other Legacy features like squeezing brakes, and the train brake function. Therefore, yes, I do call this a “crippling” of the Legacy system. In fact, the MTH app meets every classical definition as “crippleware”. Why? Because it not only disables Lionel features, but also disables many other functions as part of an effort to “induce” a purchase of “premium” versions for more and more money. I had to dish out money twice before I got software that even nominally functioned. 

GregR posted:

The app does a great job making an engine move forward and backward. And to be fair, bell and quilling whistle functions also work. However, automatic ramping of diesel RPM’s has been disabled in the software.  All you get is the flat sound of idle RPM’s, unless you go to the hassle of switching screens to make a manual adjustment to RPM for each increase in speed. Automatic RPM ramping is a basic feature that has been available since the early 90’s, even on some of the cheapest engines with Trainsounds or Locosounds chips. It’s like MTH has pushed Lionel products 30 years into the past. You might as well have the flat buzz of an E-unit. Others have noted the absence of other Legacy features like squeezing brakes, and the train brake function. Therefore, yes, I do call this a “crippling” of the Legacy system. In fact, the MTH app meets every classical definition as “crippleware”. Why? Because it not only disables Lionel features, but also disables many other functions as part of an effort to “induce” a purchase of “premium” versions for more and more money. I had to dish out money twice before I got software that even nominally functioned. 

Well as that may all be true, IMO MTH has implemented a pretty good start on getting Legacy features into the app.  While these items listed above maybe absent what's to say they are not working to add or correct these functions?  MTH has rightfully so made the apps priority to operate MTH engines to the best it can.  I don't expect them to make Legacy engine control a top priority but the have done a pretty good job at getting them to function relatively well.

The app is always being upgraded and improved so what you are looking for could and will most likely be added as time goes on.  Until then if those features are important to you then use the CAB2.  I guess I look at it this way.  Look what they have done so far!  2 years ago we didn't have anything that ran both DCS and Legacy (in Legacy mode) and now we have an App that creates as close to a unified control interface as you can get.  Why don't you give MTH time and see what they do to improve it.  Again I suspect the priority is the control of MTH engines so Legacy control may take a little time.  I can wait.

superwarp1 posted:

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Gary,

Delete the app from your iOS device and then search for it in the App Store. Then, download it as if for the first time. You won't be charged again.

First backup the data,  will do

Question:

1.  Delete the app from your iOS device,  My case an iPhone 7 Plus. With this process it sounds like i would lose all my data from the MTH DCS WiFi APP.  Why are you telling members do delete the APP.?

2. Below is a screenshot of the correct process from Apple,  Just turn on the APP on the Run Screen is the New Version Available A new version of Wi-Fi DCS is available. Please update to version 2.0.1.  Click on Update

Do not delete your original APP, if you do you will lose all your locomotives.  In my case 21 locos are on my iPhone APP

Hope This helps:  Gary

Gary, thanks...just wish we were told this at the top of the string... I just deleted and downloaded. After a few tries it finally gave me the 2.01 version.  Of course, my engines were lost.  Fortunately I only have 3.    Why didn't MTH update the app like all other are updated???  What gives with that???

 I just deleted the app and then downloaded the new app on my iPad but before doing so I used the export feature within the app.  I then after downloading the new app with latest version.  I then imported the data from the previous export and all is fine. FYI

trainroomgary posted:

superwarp1 posted:

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Gary,

Delete the app from your iOS device and then search for it in the App Store. Then, download it as if for the first time. You won't be charged again.

First backup the data,  will do

Question:

1.  Delete the app from your iOS device,  My case an iPhone 7 Plus. With this process it sounds like i would lose all my data from the MTH DCS WiFi APP.  Why are you telling members do delete the APP.?

2. Below is a screenshot of the correct process from Apple,  Just turn on the APP on the Run Screen is the New Version Available A new version of Wi-Fi DCS is available. Please update to version 2.0.1.  Click on Update

Do not delete your original APP, if you do you will lose all your locomotives.  In my case 21 locos are on my iPhone APP

Hope This helps:  Gary

For some odd reason that wouldn’t work for me. I had to delete the app but first I had to export the data then import after reinstall

 The import/export can be found  under ...More, Advanced Features. Hope this helps.

ToledoEd posted:

Gary, thanks...just wish we were told this at the top of the string... I just deleted and downloaded. After a few tries it finally gave me the 2.01 version.  Of course, my engines were lost.  Fortunately I only have 3.    Why didn't MTH update the app like all other are updated???  What gives with that???

Hi Ed:  These are the correct steps:  Do Not Delete the APP.

Step 1     Open the APP

Step 2    Click Up Date

Step 3   Set up your active list.

Step 4  Run Trains • Have Fun

Step 5   Shut Down • Have a second cup of coffee and celebrate you are done.

If you would like to learn more, watch this video from my You Tube Channel.  Mike Wolf was my instructor along with my local hobby shop.

Gary: MTH DCS Wi-Fi • Is the best way to manage any layout.

Like I said mine came through via the "App Store" update process.  I didn't even have to open the MTH app.  It appeared with a few other apps in need of an upgrade.  Didn't have a loss of any data.

Mine as well.   It was in the list of apps to update from my APP Store icon on my iPhone.  So I simply hit update all, as usual.  Next time I opened the DCS App, it was updated.    No data loss.

Incremental updates to apps is perfectly normal.   Sometimes testing show one thing, then ou tin the field someone finds a bug.   It's reported, investigated, then the developers get to work.

We get firmware and app updates all the time for our electronic music gear.   Sometimes to add features, sometimes to fix a bug.   Some bugs are harder to fix than others.   That's why sometimes we may see some simple fixes first, then the complicated ones next.

Ed, I can't speak for the apple version, but the Android version updated like any other app, with no loss of data

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Delete the app from your iOS device and then search for it in the App Store. Then, download it as if for the first time. You won't be charged again.

There is only a loss of data when you follow Barry's plan,  "Delete the app from your iOS device and then search for it in the App Store. " Barry Broskowitz, said.

Barry has provided incorrect information.

Just follow the plan I posted below.

trainroomgary posted:

Hi Ed:  These are the correct steps:  Do Not Delete the APP.

Step 1     Open the APP

Step 2    Click Up Date

Step 3   Set up your active list.

Step 4  Run Trains • Have Fun

Step 5   Shut Down • Have a second cup of coffee and celebrate you are done.

If you would like to learn more, watch this video from my YouTube Channel.  Mike Wolf was my instructor along with my local hobby shop.

Gary: MTH DCS Wi-Fi • Is the best way to manage any layout.

Gary: MTH DCS Wi-Fi • Is the best way to manage any layout.

I just updated my iOS App...  the usual app store process was followed without any issues...   I got version 2.0.2   Is that the latest for iOS?  I havenot run the trains using this yet; however, I updated my android tablet this morning and ran a session with no problems...  I did not lose any stored data...

Gary,

With this process it sounds like i would lose all my data from the MTH DCS WiFi APP.  Why are you telling members do delete the APP?

Unfortunately, I assumed that one would export the app's contents before deleting the app. To me, backups are second nature, however, that's not the case for some others. I've modified my original post on this thread to reflect that.

The reason to do it this way, rather than the "normal" way, is because the "normal" way didn't work every time. For example, I was able to upgrade my iPhone 7 and newer iPad Mini 4, however, my older iPad Mini 2 needed the "workaround".

Regardless, I apologize to anyone who experienced heartburn!

Jim,

 I got version 2.0.2   Is that the latest for iOS? 

Yes, 2.0.2 is the latest for iOS and 2.0.3 for Android.

Hello MTH DCS Wi-Fi users. Just got off the phone with my Apple Care Tech.  She had on her screen sharing, which means she can see my MTH DCS Wi-Fi APP.  All is well, and I am using the new version:  v2.0.2

No heartburn in my train room,  just ice cold adult beverages.

Gary: MTH DCS Wi-Fi • Is the best way to manage any model train layout.

Boy when you update the TIU with a brand new desk top computer instead of the old vista lap top I used to have.  Warp speed.  I'm done in no time.  Now to try the new updated app.

superwarp1 posted:

Boy when you update the TIU with a brand new desk top computer instead of the old vista lap top I used to have.  Warp speed.  I'm done in no time.  Now to try the new updated app.

Congrats on the new desk top computer,  The APP is easy money, just do not discard your old APP or you will be starting over,  Good luck, you should get: 2.0.3 for Android.

Gary: MTH DCS Wi-Fi User, on a large train layout. Where everything has been tested and works, 'No Chaos"

After running the layout using revised app and 6.1, no new problems developed.

Still happens that I very occasionally hit 0 on the speedometer and nothing happens.  A ps3 2-10-0 still will sit making sounds and refuse to respond to any button; needs to have track power cut and sit a bit.

Overall, seems to work more smoothly and reliably than earlier versions.

Barry, thanks for clarifying the versions...  Have a good meeting next week... see you all in April...

GregR posted:

MartyE posted:

GregR posted:

 Meanwhile, this same app has a severely crippled implementation of Legacy control. It is not unreasonable or conspiratorial to state that a business motivation exists to diminish the appeal or function of a competitor’s product. 

 

 

How so?  I find the MTH app pretty good for running Legacy.  While it's not fully compatible with LCS and some functionality of Legacy yet it does a very good job at offering a uniform control application.  I'd be interested to hear why  you feel it "crippled" your Legacy implementation.

The app does a great job making an engine move forward and backward. And to be fair, bell and quilling whistle functions also work. However, automatic ramping of diesel RPM’s has been disabled in the software.  All you get is the flat sound of idle RPM’s, unless you go to the hassle of switching screens to make a manual adjustment to RPM for each increase in speed. Automatic RPM ramping is a basic feature that has been available since the early 90’s, even on some of the cheapest engines with Trainsounds or Locosounds chips. It’s like MTH has pushed Lionel products 30 years into the past. You might as well have the flat buzz of an E-unit. Others have noted the absence of other Legacy features like squeezing brakes, and the train brake function. Therefore, yes, I do call this a “crippling” of the Legacy system. In fact, the MTH app meets every classical definition as “crippleware”. Why? Because it not only disables Lionel features, but also disables many other functions as part of an effort to “induce” a purchase of “premium” versions for more and more money. I had to dish out money twice before I got software that even nominally functioned. 

Hi GregR,

Well, from the horse's mouth (or maybe arse?) I can tell you we definitely do not want to sabotage TMCC or Legacy operation in DCS.  Any bugs or anomalies are merely just that.  Of course, the focus is on our own products and features first but, we would love to have every TMCC/Legacy engine run under DCS.  

We did struggle with deciding which features were most important to Legacy operators.  Further, and even with much appreciated assistance from Lionel, some features didn't make the cut.  There are some aspects of Legacy operation that are not well documented and have been lost or forgotten by staff long gone.  We have the same issue with some low level aspects of DCS.  Luckily for us, the same employees and contract engineers who developed things are still on the job for the most part.  

With regard to all the discussion about app updates, generally speaking, the DCS should update exactly like any other app on your device.  We've not done anything different in that respect.  I would shy away from deletion and reinstall except as a last resort.  Most users simply get a notification of an update and update through the App Store.  In the case of Android users, most seem to leave their apps set to auto update so, it just happens.  At least that's how the Android guys around here operate.

Stay tuned for continued enhancements and expansion of the DCS system including TMCC/Legacy operations.  The place to start is for Legacy users to chime in and and make sure we're clear as to what your priorities are.  If you ask us to vibrate your phone when accelerating, we may pass on that.  Let's stick to running the trains how you want to run them please.  We know train brake is of strong interest.  However, this falls into the category of lots of unknowns, apparently.  Of course, we could figure it out if sales support the effort.

Thanks for responding @MTH RD

Yes Train Brake is a big one.

I certainly appreciate that MTH took the time to respond to these concerns regarding Legacy operation. My "chime in" is to request that RPM's ramp up and down as they should on diesels. Then I'd be happy!

Of course, diesel RPMs should ramp up with acceleration.  Well, actually, the other way around but, in model traindom....

So, I went out to our test layout and set a Lionel Legacy NP U33c diesel on the rails and tested it with the app.  To my surprise, no diesel rev changes relative to throttle.  So, I picked up our Legacy Cab 2 and ran the engine.  To my even greater surprise, no diesel rev changes relative to throttle.

It appears we are sending the exact same commands as the Legacy system with the same results.  That's a relief.

I will get into this further and try to update this thread with what is going on.  I vaguely remember some issue with the type of Legacy speed commands being sent but, of course, we opted to mimic the Legacy system as this would seemingly be acceptable to those users.

More to follow on this down the line. 

MTH RD posted:

Of course, diesel RPMs should ramp up with acceleration.  Well, actually, the other way around but, in model traindom....

So, I went out to our test layout and set a Lionel Legacy NP U33c diesel on the rails and tested it with the app.  To my surprise, no diesel rev changes relative to throttle.  So, I picked up our Legacy Cab 2 and ran the engine.  To my even greater surprise, no diesel rev changes relative to throttle.

It appears we are sending the exact same commands as the Legacy system with the same results.  That's a relief.

I will get into this further and try to update this thread with what is going on.  I vaguely remember some issue with the type of Legacy speed commands being sent but, of course, we opted to mimic the Legacy system as this would seemingly be acceptable to those users.

More to follow on this down the line. 

I have about 50 Legacy diesels and every single one of them has an RPM sound increase/decrease relative to the throttle when controlled via the CAB-2.  However, when controlled via the DCS app, there is no RPM change at all.  They stay at idle regardless of throttle movement.

Have I misunderstood your post?

MTH RD posted:

Of course, diesel RPMs should ramp up with acceleration.  Well, actually, the other way around but, in model traindom....

So, I went out to our test layout and set a Lionel Legacy NP U33c diesel on the rails and tested it with the app.  To my surprise, no diesel rev changes relative to throttle.  So, I picked up our Legacy Cab 2 and ran the engine.  To my even greater surprise, no diesel rev changes relative to throttle.

It appears we are sending the exact same commands as the Legacy system with the same results.  That's a relief.

I will get into this further and try to update this thread with what is going on.  I vaguely remember some issue with the type of Legacy speed commands being sent but, of course, we opted to mimic the Legacy system as this would seemingly be acceptable to those users.

More to follow on this down the line. 

MTH RD:

The CAB2 will not ramp up RPM's if you slowly increase speed linearly. Give it a sharper turn of the knob and it should work - unless you're in manual RPM mode, or you have a broken engine.

The following information may be  more helpful for you than it was for me. When I previously posted this issue, I received the following reply from Rudy Trubitt at Lionel---

On a related note, if I set up the MTH app with a Legacy engine as a TMCC diesel, RPM's work in the default, R100 and TAS speed control modes, but fail to work in TMCC 32 mode.

RAILSOUNDSMEMBER

7/5/178:34 AM

MTH RD posted:

Of course, diesel RPMs should ramp up with acceleration.  Well, actually, the other way around but, in model traindom....

So, I went out to our test layout and set a Lionel Legacy NP U33c diesel on the rails and tested it with the app.  To my surprise, no diesel rev changes relative to throttle.  So, I picked up our Legacy Cab 2 and ran the engine.  To my even greater surprise, no diesel rev changes relative to throttle.

It appears we are sending the exact same commands as the Legacy system with the same results.  That's a relief.

I will get into this further and try to update this thread with what is going on.  I vaguely remember some issue with the type of Legacy speed commands being sent but, of course, we opted to mimic the Legacy system as this would seemingly be acceptable to those users.

More to follow on this down the line. 

They always ramp up for me with my Cab 2.

@MTH RD Did you see Rudy Trubitt's comments, above, regarding speed control and RPM's?