DCS remotes are included in the new MTH catalogue, so it appears that they should be available for a while.
irish rifle posted:DCS remotes are included in the new MTH catalogue, so it appears that they should be available for a while.
Im sure MTH feels they have adequate inventory as they make this transition.
Just because they stopped manufacturing the remote doesn't mean they will stop selling it immediately.
They may sell remotes for years to come...regardless if new ones are being made.
What a lot of fuss about nothing. The trains will run, remotes or not. The techno geeks waste their time and $$ on work-arounds- spend the time and $$ on your trains and layout. Today's technology will be junk tomorrow.
bigdodgetrain posted:i'm done with you two!
it works for me and that is all I care about.
It would help if you guys would be a bit more specific...
"Kindle Fire" - isn't a single device - there are a couple models, made over several years.
Earlier ones run a custom version of Android 2
Later they used a Android 4 build
MTH has said you need at least a 4.0 version of Android to run the app...
I suspect the guys that got it work are running a 4 version and the guys who didn't get it to work might have 2 version.
Barry Broskowitz posted:Gene,
I'm seriously thinking of buying a wifi unit after the holidays and just wonder if it will control the track power like DCS remote does with a Z4K receiver plugged into the Z4K transformer?
Unfortunately, that isn’t possible.
The DCS App communicates via WiFi (2.4 GHz) with the WIU and the Z4000 receiver only uses 900 MHz. In order to talk to the Z4000 receiver, additional hardware would be required. MTH has indicated that, at the present time, that isn’t going to happen.
Thank You Barry.
I stand with my earlier post. All this tech nonsense just to run a toy train, MTH is leaving most of the starter people in the dust.
Jim 1939 posted:I stand with my earlier post. All this tech nonsense just to run a toy train, MTH is leaving most of the starter people in the dust.
Why? All MTH trains work fine with a conventional transformer. Seems like they aren't leaving anyone in "the dust". Try that with a LionChief starter set.
Let me see if I have this right. No more remote means no more thumbwheel?? That's all the argument I need!! 
Gerry, I'd give your post closer consideration but it's time for me to head off to the gym with my Sony Walkman.
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I already posted once but now after reading all these posts I recognize that there are more then one group or generation running trains or are at the point of getting into trains. I will say again I am a Dinosaur but I have three levels of running, conventional , Legacy/TMCC and DCS. Okay point taken....remotes will not be made in the possible near future. So I am buying extras, my decision. I have been to a house where he ran his trains from a tablet and saw the tablet malfunction and had to start from square one. But my point is business in a way has to look to the future and future train operators who were born into the tech world are better adapt at this stuff. So be it. To me holding a remote in my hand is more comfortable then holding a bulky tablet. Also I have a cell phone, it is smart phone ( a lot smarter then me ) LOL but why would I want to be using my phone to run trains and and have a call come in. So what will be will be. Way back when we were all conventional and then remote control came along and for that we are better off. In the future it will just be a mixed bag of operating trains.............Life and the world moves on............Paul
paul 2 posted:. Also I have a cell phone, it is smart phone ( a lot smarter then me ) LOL but why would I want to be using my phone to run trains and and have a call come in.
Not this again - the answer is - you're really not expected to use your everyday phone to run this system.
Get a dedicated tablet or phone!
While I'm at it - let's shoot down another notion that the Neo-Luddites keep repeating...
You don't need a contract or cell service...somehow people can't figure out that a cell phone can exist or be useful without a cell contract or service.
StraightTalk has refurbished phones for 10 bucks - sometimes Free with postage.
https://shop.straighttalk.com/...-z793c-reconditioned
Android 4.4, KitKat
Just for interest, slot car type racing is now being done without physical remotes of any sort. Anki's sets require some sort of smart device.
https://www.anki.com/en-us/overdrive
Nonetheless, I think it's a mistake to not have some sort of controller present in a $400 set. If I bought a Subaru and had to make sure I had a smart device to access the radio and other music, it would not amuse me .
Roving Sign posted:You don't need a contract or cell service...somehow people can't figure out that a cell phone can exist or be useful without a cell contract or service.paul 2 posted:. Also I have a cell phone, it is smart phone ( a lot smarter then me ) LOL but why would I want to be using my phone to run trains and and have a call come in.
Exactly. My old iPhone 4 is now in use exclusively as the "ipod" in my truck. It sits in the glove box to where I ran the USB cable from the back of my head unit.
I use another old non-phone iPhone as my DCS and Lionel App remote.
As Roving says, if you want to give it a try, go buy a refurbished smart phone for $10-$40 and give it a whirl.
On my layout, the way I run things depends on my mood that day. Sometimes I use the handles of my ZW-C, sometimes I just run Legacy from the Legacy remote, sometimes I use the DCS Remote to run everything including my TMCC/Legacy, and most days I am using the DCS app.
You guys don't want to use the remote, that's fine. Why does it sound like you're badgering the ones that want the remote?
Have you tried to run trains outside in the sun with your phone or tablet????
Engineer-Joe posted:You guys don't want to use the remote, that's fine. Why does it sound like you're badgering the ones that want the remote?
Have you tried to run trains outside in the sun with your phone or tablet????
I think running trains outdoors isn't something most operators do...
That said - I'm a sound engineer - and run my PA/mixer with a phone/tablet - and yes, it's just fine in the sun - crank up the brightness!
Roving Sign posted:Engineer-Joe posted:You guys don't want to use the remote, that's fine. Why does it sound like you're badgering the ones that want the remote?
Have you tried to run trains outside in the sun with your phone or tablet????
I think running trains outdoors isn't something most operators do...
That said - I'm a sound engineer - and run my PA/mixer with a phone/tablet - and yes, it's just fine in the sun - crank up the brightness!
Well, maybe not "outdoors" but, our layout is upstairs, and with 5 big double windows (primarily facing south), we obviously prefer the various hand held controllers from MTH and Lionel.
I'm a little confused about some of the business logic behind all this. I understand about obsolescence, planned and otherwise, but I look back at all of the reports about geezers like us being the backbone of the hobby and I sort of lose the bubble about MTHs decision to alienate such a large segment of the hobby. Put another way, the millennials understand and are comfortable with the new technology, but they don't seem to be flocking towards train stores or train shows. If part of MTHs plan is to make the hobby more attractive to the post-Boomer generations, I can't help but wonder if maybe there's a better way to do so than a new control system.
Having said all that, I'm in a wait and see mode right now. I run both TMCC/Legacy as well as DCS and, candidly, I'm not real wild about the idea of MTH eliminating remotes because I'm comfortable with the handhelds. I don't have a smart phone, although my wife and son do, but I will undoubtedly have to yield (grudgingly) to progress at some point ... just as I'm slowly accepting the fact that the days of my flip phone are numbered. It seems to me that I either accept the inevitable or my MTH engines will become shelf queens.
I use both the DCS app and the DCS Remote it depends on what strikes my fancy, and for the few Lionel Engines, I use the Legacy system. I do have a lot of the Newer technology in my house, the Nest Thermostat, Nest Protect, and Philips Hue Lightbulbs. I do intend on getting either an iPad(only one that will run the LCS app, because for some reason Lionel didn't right and Android app for that), or an Android Tablet, which can run both DCS or LionChief(though I have none that use this yet), depending on what train I am running, mainly confined to MTH Currently.
I am one of the younger ones in the hobby, I kind of get where they are coming from, and I am sure, if I would let my son run my more scale Locomotives, I can possibly see him using a smart device to run them, though he really doesn't use items like tablets or phones, he has one he can use at school, that he doesn't really use it that often.
Engineer-Joe posted:You guys don't want to use the remote, that's fine. Why does it sound like you're badgering the ones that want the remote?
Have you tried to run trains outside in the sun with your phone or tablet????
Joe,
I am not trying to badger anyone. I am just trying to give accurate information on the items needed, so people interested can make a decision based on how the system works. Also trying to calm a bit of the seeming hysteria about no DCS remotes. It's not going to happen for a long time. Heck, if all you have is an orignal TMCC system, you can still find good TMCC remotes for that.
As I said, I run the DCS remote as well, I have two of them. I also have my original TMCC system, and my Legacy system and remote.
As far as outside....like Roving said, I can run my iPhone or Ipad controlling X-32 or Presonus mixer just fine at outdoor festivals
Well?? Roving, I am a sound engineer too. I ran Midas consoles and prefer controlling faders over writing programs.
All that means nothing here. The phones and tablets I have don't show up in the sun. Yes the brightness is cranked. Maybe the consoles you speak of are in the shade?? Maybe they have better brightness? What does any of that have to do with running trains outside.
My blank is bigger than you blank is not what we are discussing. If you prefer the app then good for you. I use it too. I think a market will remain for the remote for years to come. How can I talk to MTH about that when you won't let me?
Barry Broskowitz posted:RRMAN,
You do not need to purchase a cellular plan to operate DCS using WiFi. You can use any iOS or Android, smartphone or tablet, with WiFi (not cellular) capability. No cellular or data plan is required.
Don't have any of those devices, so I'm going to have to live it out with the remotes. Our three grandsons were not interested in using their phone/pad/wifi, preferring the remotes. So there is some hope for the future generation ... ;-)
rtr12 posted:I too still like the DCS remote. Have been thinking about getting another one just in case? However, if you don't have a smart phone and might be thinking about one (or two)...
FWIW, T-Mobile has a deal for those of us over 55. Two phones, unlimited everything for $60 a month, no added fees or taxes. You have to sign up for auto pay to get the $60 a month, otherwise it's $70 for same deal and you pay monthly as most of us are accustomed to. I put the monthly charge on my Visa, I get cash back and I don't like anyone having access to my bank account.
My wife wanted an iphone and I was talking to the phone guy at Costco. He told me about the T-Mobile deal. Verizon was charging me $47 & change per month for one flip phone, 400 minutes, no data and no text. This was a week or two before the iphone 8 came out and Costco had the iphone 7 for $100 off. After learning all that, I got 2 iphones (the 7) and switched. The guy set me up and changed everything right there in Costso. So far, after about 3 months now, I have been very happy with T-Mobile and the iphones. Still learning to use the iphone, but they are very handy to have and I think I have now been converted.
Anyway, just something I ran across a few months ago and thought I would pass it on in case anyone was interested. It is really a pretty good deal. T-Mobile's coverage in the West and Rocky Mountain areas hasn't quite caught up to Verizon, but it's getting there. They cover the East and Midwest pretty well. So be sure to check the coverage in your area...'can you hear me now' type of thing.
I am in no way connected with Costco or T-Mobile either, just thought this was a good deal. I am sure you can get the phones anywhere and also the T-mobile service where ever it is offered.
And a oops, I should have also added what Barry posted above, you don't need smart phone service to use the app, just a smart device with wifi to run the app. I got carried away with the T-Mobile deal...
I have a stupid phone. It is wireless but only receives and makes calls at $0.25 a minute, on top of a $9.95 a month base charge. Keep it for emergency calls when out and about.
Engineer-Joe posted:Well?? Roving, I am a sound engineer too. I ran Midas consoles and prefer controlling faders over writing programs.
All that means nothing here. The phones and tablets I have don't show up in the sun. Yes the brightness is cranked. Maybe the consoles you speak of are in the shade?? Maybe they have better brightness? What does any of that have to do with running trains outside.
My blank is bigger than you blank is not what we are discussing. If you prefer the app then good for you. I use it too. I think a market will remain for the remote for years to come. How can I talk to MTH about that when you won't let me?
Oh - for sure...In many cases - I do prefer the physical fader...for soundmixing.
Try keeping up with a bluegrass band as they all take a quick solo on tablet...it can be done - but not as easily as you can just by moving a fader up and down.
That's why I've suggested we'll eventually see physical controllers that work with the DCS phone/wi-fi system...just like we have in the audio world.
When I run the fader-less XR18 - the tablet is nice - but they make the X-Touch - which allows you to add physical faders.
Jim Pastorius and Jim 1939,
Well, I find myself in agreement with you and some of the other posters that have suggested that "the tail has started to wag the dog." I think it was inevitable when electronics started to invade both O Gauge and O Scale. Don't get me wrong, there have been advantages, but maybe we are approaching the "wall" for the average hobbyist. I once knew two gentlemen, one worked for Storage Technology, the other for Seagate. They both said repeatedly that when computer technology hits the stores, it's already obsolete. There will always be more "better" down the line. It's the nature of the business, "Buy better! Replace that old phone! Upgrade that Computer, Today! This new camera has 47 new features!" I think the answer is already collectively before us. There will always be some in our hobby who are fascinated with the electronics side and tinkering around with the limits of animation. Good for you! Just as there will always be hobbyists who just want to sit back and watch the trains go by. Good for you! And there will be some, like me, who switch most of the stuff off and run in the most simple mode I can. Good for me! Let me tell you, a lot of these train shows I go to, with all the animation and sound cranked to maximum, leave me deaf, wheezing, and crazy after a couple of hours and desperate to get away. When I walk outside, the comparative silence is deafening....and breathing in the fresh smog.....well, need I say more?
So I suspect this is all going to be just fine. If MTH does discontinue handhelds (a likely scenario), then there will be a surplus on the after market as others rush to upgrade to the new, improved whatever. Eventually, someone will bring forth an aftermarket device that fills the void. It's happened before. The more things change..... As for me....well, other than basic functions (speed, direction, lights, etc.), it will be okay as I will disengage or just rip the stuff out for something more simple as it will all become obsolete very quickly anyway, it's the nature of electronics. For me it's about a better built, scaled, detailed, and painted model that will operate on the track, be it 2 rail or 3.....and just some plain old fun.
Roving Sign posted:While I'm at it - let's shoot down another notion that the Neo-Luddites keep repeating...
You don't need a contract or cell service...somehow people can't figure out that a cell phone can exist or be useful without a cell contract or service.
Well Roving Sign, glad you are a cell phone engineer and clarified this. Us Neo-Luddites probably don't know whats inside our cell phone other than the cell receiver and transmitter on one frequency, and maybe the camera stuff. Apparently some phones have the additional WIFI transmitter/receiver on another frequency, and even bluetooth on a third frequency, all squirting out one tiny antenna. But you would have to ask the phone vendor which of their phones have WIFI. Since we keep saying you have to download the app, doesn't that automatically imply you need the cell phone air time contract to download from Googlestore or Itunes stores??
Please enlighten us knuckle dragging stone age users.
rrman posted:Roving Sign posted:While I'm at it - let's shoot down another notion that the Neo-Luddites keep repeating...
You don't need a contract or cell service...somehow people can't figure out that a cell phone can exist or be useful without a cell contract or service.
Well Roving Sign, glad you are a cell phone engineer and clarified this. Us Neo-Luddites probably don't know whats inside our cell phone other than the cell receiver and transmitter on one frequency, and maybe the camera stuff. Apparently some phones have the additional WIFI transmitter/receiver on another frequency, and even bluetooth on a third frequency, all squirting out one tiny antenna. But you would have to ask the phone vendor which of their phones have WIFI. Since we keep saying you have to download the app, doesn't that automatically imply you need the cell phone air time contract to download from Googlestore or Itunes stores??
Please enlighten us knuckle dragging stone age users.
I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to declare - every modern smartphone has wi-fi, cell and bluetooth.
Can't say they use the same antenna - I doubt that's the case.
When it comes to tablets - they ALL have wi-fi...some have cell support - which is not necessary in our pursuits...don't waste money on a tablet with cell tech.
All you need is a wi-fi internet connection and a Google account to download the app - you DON'T NEED CELL SERVICE!!!
Computers, Phones and Tablets all use wi-fi the same way...it's all the same internet.
Roving Sign posted:rrman posted:Roving Sign posted:While I'm at it - let's shoot down another notion that the Neo-Luddites keep repeating...
You don't need a contract or cell service...somehow people can't figure out that a cell phone can exist or be useful without a cell contract or service.
Well Roving Sign, glad you are a cell phone engineer and clarified this. Us Neo-Luddites probably don't know whats inside our cell phone other than the cell receiver and transmitter on one frequency, and maybe the camera stuff. Apparently some phones have the additional WIFI transmitter/receiver on another frequency, and even bluetooth on a third frequency, all squirting out one tiny antenna. But you would have to ask the phone vendor which of their phones have WIFI. Since we keep saying you have to download the app, doesn't that automatically imply you need the cell phone air time contract to download from Googlestore or Itunes stores??
Please enlighten us knuckle dragging stone age users.
I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to declare - every modern smartphone has wi-fi, cell and bluetooth.
Can't say they use the same antenna - I doubt that's the case.
When it comes to tablets - they ALL have wi-fi...some have cell support - which is not necessary in our pursuits...don't waste money on a tablet with cell tech.
All you need is a wi-fi internet connection and a Google account to download the app - you DON'T NEED CELL SERVICE!!!
Computers, Phones and Tablets all use wi-fi the same way...it's all the same internet.
Thank you!
I could see why some think that a phone or tablet must have an active contract for service. I have an older smart phone that I switch the WIFI on or off as needed. I find that it connects better and runs perfect on the MTH network.
I too am a dinosaur with the most modern electronics. I have some good background with equipment that helps me with forward thinking though.
Maybe that's why I was so optimistic when I heard about Bluetooth. I'm not sure I'll ever get to use it with my trains. I really liked the thought of talking straight to each engine and maybe broadcasting sounds for larger room surround speakers. Until then I'll just watch Willy Gee's stuff.
Run your trains just once with a smart phone or iPad and you will never want to use that clunky DCS remote ever again. The running experience is so much better with a phone/iPad it is almost impossible to describe.
No remotes, no iphone, ipad, blue tooth etc, just a steady hand on the transormer.
There's always one.
OGR Webmaster posted:Run your trains just once with a smart phone or iPad and you will never want to use that clunky DCS remote ever again. The running experience is so much better with a phone/iPad it is almost impossible to describe.
So Rich, please explain how you keep you eyes on the layout while trying to rub the throttle and/or brake icons up and down and find the horn/whistle wihout any landmarks??? It must be me, but when I look somewhere else my concentration breaks from what I was doing.
Unfortunately there is nobody in my Iowa area that has a MTH WIFI setup, even our "local" (50+ miles away) MTH dealer won't touch it. People on the Eastern side of the Mississippi closer to the east coast are more likely to have friends/clubs that have invested in WIFI, and can sing praises for it. Until I see and feel this WIFI to be convinced, I will just have to clunk along with my remotes. It took awhile for me to invest $500 for the TIU setups but only after I had seen, touched, run, asked 10K questions.
As Martye above said "Opinions are just that. Listen, ponder, and decide for yourself."
$500 for a TIU set up !! Ouch ! too much for my thin purse. And cost of all these new technical wonders isn't even mentioned.
Speak for yourself, Rich.
jim pastorius posted:$500 for a TIU set up !! Ouch ! too much for my thin purse. And cost of all these new technical wonders isn't even mentioned.
Jim,
I can't remember the exact cost other than it shot my train budget for the year more or less. It was for TIU and two AIU and spare remote, plus rewiring layout and adding magic light bulbs etc. Couda been more, couda been less. I just felt like I was stepping off the edge investing in something totally new with no assurance it would work on the layout without major headaches......
My personal thoughts on this:
I currently have four handheld remotes -- two for DCS and two for Legacy/TMCC. For now, they are fine.
But I can take a hint. The future is screen control of both systems. Roger at Trainworx has one working in the shop, and the next time I go to the metroplex I'll test-drive one and see how I like it.
In the early 2000's, the railroad furnished me a Blackberry phone. I hated it. So, when I retired on the last day of 2007, I got the most basic flip-phone. That was fine until our six children began getting iPhones and wanting to connect with us in ways other than voice phone calls. So, I reluctantly got an iPhone, and was surprised that I did not hate it. I am not on it all the time, but I have found it to be quite useful in many ways. I will probably buy the interfaces for both systems and use the phone to iPad (yes, I gave in and got one of those too) to control the trains.
I like for the trains to run realistically, slow starts and stops, sometimes complicated maneuvers to get to and from the yard and engine facility, etc. That will probably work well with screen-control. Currently I control my switches with DCS and it takes a lot of time to leave train control and go to switch control, dial up the switch number, activate the switch, and then go back to train control. As an Engineer in the 1970's, I waited for Switchmen to stroll up to the switch, line it, and then give me a signal to move. I don't really want quite that much realism. 
#90, I find activating switches with the app is just as slow, but when running gets hot & heavy, I have been known to have a remote in each hand, with one on the switch list and the other running trains, while grandkids are using other remotes to run trains.
I remember reading an article in a magazine about buying and setting up one of these systems and the prices shocked me. Just no way !! To me and my interest in the hobby the engines, cars and track are the important part and to watch them run. All the rest of this stuff is just a sideshow. What is realistic about a slow starting steam engine with a screen ?? The real engineers didn't use them. One day in a hobby shop I watched an old retired PRR engineer, who ran passenger trains east out of Pgh, demonstrate how he would start a train on the curve at the Greensburg station without jolting the passengers. One hand on that long handled throttle and the other on the brake. The guy was an artist. No pad, no computer, no rubber tires just his training and smarts. Play with your moonbeam control systems but don't knock the old ways.
jim pastorius posted:Play with your moonbeam control systems but don't knock the old ways.
I agree but it goes both ways.
That being said I prefer the remote to a Smart Device but realize that the technology is changing. I think it's in the best interest to keep costs down that most of the manufacturers with control systems will go to 3rd party hardware and just make software updates.
Hello #90
To get to the switch fast (I have 3 AIU's for switches only). Go to the list, push the number on the list and operate. You don't have to scroll the list if you know the number you want, I have a diagram on the wall with the numbers. The app only list five at a time I think, and then the print is way to small, I used an Ipad mini. Now just the remote . After over three months of the ipad I gave up. I run multiable trains on one loop and a lot of switching and peddling freight.
clem
So far this has been an interesting thread with thoughtful pros and cons. Hope it continues and doesn't derail or degenerate.
One thing of note is Clem saying he gave up things too small. Gotta remember us oldsters don't have the 20-20 eyesight of our youth. One reason I moved fro HO and N to O is readability and larger everything for my less than steady 70yo hands 
