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This is the Lionel TMCC Dash 9 #6-18289 that came with the 2002-2003 CN Tank Train set.

The motor mount screws had loosened off and dropped out of the motor, allowing the motor to simply freewheel instead of driving the truck. This first pic shows the swivel D plate where the motor mounts. This plate retains the truck in the frame and is generally fastened to the truck by a single machine screw which comes up from the bottom of the truck. You can see the two motor mount screw holes on either side of the larger center hole, which is where the motor worm gear inserts. The motor simply came off in my hand when I pulled up on it. Yikes!

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This next pic shows the truck underside and the head of the screw that fastens the truck to the upper D plate. The assembly of the power truck and motor is different than anything I have previously seen, and defies all logic. Note that the screw head is barely accessible using a TINY thin shafted Philips screwdriver. Ordinarily you would unfasten the power pickup that is in the way by undoing a small machine screw, thus leaving easy access to the truck screw. Guess what? The screw fastening this pickup is installed from the TOP side of the truck, and its head is totally inaccessible until you get the truck removed from the motor. I wonder what genius thought this arrangement up?

I was able to get the truck mount screw loose after I found a small enough Philips, but even with it loose, the upper swivel D plate does not seem to want to come off the truck at all. I have backed the screw off to the point where it's head is contacting the power pick up pin that is right above it. I have tried judiciously prying the truck and the D plate apart from the top side, with no luck at all. Has anyone seen this style truck and figured out how you get it apart? Thanks for any help!

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Rod

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No sign of any mounting plate like that Alex.

In the pic below, when I pry in the location shown with a flat blade screwdriver, I can get the collar of the D swivel plate to move about 1/8" up from the truck, but it's like its compressing a spring or something somewhere.   

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I don't want to push it too far for fear of breaking something. I know that the screw under the power pickup is attached to the collar of the swivel plate because I can see the screw head move with the collar when I pry them apart. I also tried taking the other truck and motor apart to see if I could learn anything from that, but it is exactly the same weird design. This engine is a good old workhorse that I like running at train shows. So I would really like to get it fixed if I can. I suspect the screws that dropped out of the motor are still captive under the D plate, as I can kind of see them thru the screw holes. the worm on the motor looks to be in good shape, and I think it's an easy fix if I could just figure out how to separate the swivel D plate from the truck.

Thanks, Rod

 

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Look in the slots, there are a couple more screws to remove the trucks on many Lionel diesels.  Note the picture of the truck, there are two screws on the left that remove the top plate to drop the truck.  Then that top plate comes up through the hole.  As I recall, you have to take the roller off as well.

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Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
gunrunnerjohn posted:

Look in the slots, there are a couple more screws to remove the trucks on many Lionel diesels.  Note the picture of the truck, there are two screws on the left that remove the top plate to drop the truck.  Then that top plate comes up through the hole.  As I recall, you have to take the roller off as well.

Truck

Yes John i think that's it, the only way this truck can be removed is from the top. It was driving me crazy all night trying to remember how this truck comes off. A thin Phillips screwdriver through the slot to reach the screws.

Alex

Thanks all for the help and suggestions.

David that truck diagram on page B-90-3 looks pretty well right on, and the upper swivel plate appears to have a large tab behind the motor that affixes to the main truck frame by way of a longish screw that goes thru from the top and attaches the rear power pickup underneath the truck. So I will try removing that screw and see what happens.

"When in doubt; use a bigger hammer!"

Rod

Some you just have to remove the pickup screw, others you have to remove several other screws to remove that top plate.

One "bonus" here is the wheels are now loose, the bushings fall out, and it's somewhat of a PITA to align everything and get the truck back together!  There is a flat spot on the bronze bearing that has to be in the proper place.  Thanks Lionel for a really stupid truck design!

Rod,
I don't have any solution to your problem, other than my having had the same repair dilemma that you have.
And I'm sorry, but to add aggravation, to your current aggravation, unintentionally.
I believe, that the genius who thought-up of the constructive design of your motor and truck, is the same genius who, also, thinks-up and designs puzzles!!
Ralph

Yep a royal PITA! I am wrestling with the same truck configuration on the E5/E6's.

look on your second picture there is a fastener that John describes it comes from the top of the truck and holds the roller pick ups on. They are only accessible by the slots in the frame.

My previous owner stripped out the Philips cap head screw!

 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Some you just have to remove the pickup screw, others you have to remove several other screws to remove that top plate.

One "bonus" here is the wheels are now loose, the bushings fall out, and it's somewhat of a PITA to align everything and get the truck back together!  There is a flat spot on the bronze bearing that has to be in the proper place.  Thanks Lionel for a really stupid truck design!

Would this be the same on a 2002 Scale F3 A unit?, a buddy has one where one motor has come loose.

Well it took a couple of hours but I got it done. Just for documentary purposes I took a few more pics.

After I removed the rear power pickup screw it came apart like this, with some finagling to get the D plate swivel part out of the hole in the frame. Plus the front power pickup wire goes thru a tiny hole in the front of the D plate, so I had to cut it.

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This pic gives a pretty good look at the parts laid out for hopeful reassembly. Examination of the worm and driven gear showed them to be in fine shape, and both motor mount screws were there; they only had to be fished out of the gearbox where they had fallen.

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Once you fasten the motor to the swivel D plate there is no way it will fit back thru the hole in the frame (don't ask how I found his out! ) So you have to put the frame on its side, fit the swivel plate back in, then fasten the two motor screws thru and into the motor, like below. Putting the truck up on blocks allows aligning the flats on the driven axle bushings (must be downwards facing) and prevents them from moving during reassembly.

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Next you place the frame and motor assembly over the truck and slip the worm pinion thru the hole in the swivel plate. The rear power pickup screw is inserted and tightened along with the front screw which is only accessible from the bottom of the truck. It would be handy to have about 4 hands for this job, but with a little BS&T it can be done, on about the 3rd or 4th attempt. It should look like this when done:

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I had to splice the power wire I had cut, as above, then the rest of the reassembly is straightforward. The guy who designed this style truck should get some sort of award for "most unserviceable design of the year" or something. It is definitely a gong show effort. MTH power trucks are a breeze by comparison, not trying to start any brand wars or anything; just saying.

I'll try it out later today and see if it works!

Rod

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Andrew; you should be able to use the same electrocouplers as are found on this engine, along with the necessary screws. If you search for the product number above it will take you to a blow up picture with all parts and PN's listed. Assuming yours is a TMCC, you will have to wire the couplers to the motherboard to the correct sockets. Let us know what MoBo you have and we can likely point you in the right direction. One common diesel mobo is 691-PCB1-11E. If it's not TMCC you may have a problem with the conversion as far as actuating the couplers is concerned.

John; thanks for all your thoughts and guidance throughout this whole ordeal. I have minimal Lionel diesels compared to MTH, and just never encountered this weird truck design before. Good news is I did not have to remove the truck sides to separate the truck in the end, though this would have been easy enough to do. I hope I never have to service one of these puppies again!

Rod

 

As I remember, there is a Phillips screw deep in and along side the pickup roller (from the outside bottom of the truck) which has to be removed. There is barely enough room to get a standard PH2 screwdriver on it. I used a PH1 very strongly pushing so that it didn't slip to get the screw out. Dumb design.,

Last edited by cjack

Well I was able to get the old motor out and replaced. After putting everything back together and getting the engine on the track, there is a short somewhere, because the circuit breaker on my transformer pops and the front center roller gets hot as hell. Ugghh now I have to trace everything to see whats going on...and there is no room anywhere to do anything :-)

This design is the worst and has vexed people since the Dash 9 first came out 16 years ago. On the ones I've seen there's a little notch at the apex of the curved slot where the pick up wires pass through the frame. Straighten the truck and that notch is like an index for where to place the screw driver to release that hidden screw in the top of the truck block. 

By the way some Atlas models use this design too, including the four axle Dash 8s.  Underscoring the importance of proper re-assembly, I bought an Atlas Dash 8 that ran hot. After pulling the shell I found the rear motor barely turned.  I dropped the truck and reseated everything and solved the problem. The factory hadn't assembled it correctly, I guess. Not a good design.

RM

 

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