Do's and Don'ts for Model Train Shows

Chris Lonero posted:

Train Nut posted:

I bring money and my wife. That way im not afraid to come home!!

I’m not afraid to come home either!   My wife comes with me to every York! 

And...believe it or not...my wife is the one who makes sure WE attend York, the dates on the calendar to be sacrosanct...death, jury duty, or collecting on a Powerball winning ticket, the few exceptions!..., and she's the one on our team who haggles.  She's knowledgeable enough about the hobby, condition grading, and secondary market prices to know a fair price for an item.  As such, she's seldom run into a seller at York who would treat her rudely for her discussion over price or most anything trains related.   In fact, most of them enjoy the bargaining discussion!

Finally, she looks one heck of a lot better than me!!

Besides, having your spouse sharing this hobby and its special events like York makes a world of difference.  I know.  I've lived it both ways; Spouse #1..., spouse #2...!

KD

Hi! I try to have a theme - e.g., last York it was Southern Pacific cars to go with new Lionel AC9.  Another time it was New Haven stuff (love that paint scheme!).  When Vince of Vince's Trains was still at York he would upset my plan real quick though - had great selection of locos, many of which I hadn't thought about until I saw them.  Basic idea always is just have fun!

Everything you need to know from a buyers and sellers perspective is here...

Funny, but so true

Ed, Some of that was pretty funny. Where did you find it? Apparently, I am related to:

Percy the Purist- Wouldn't think of buying a train unless it had all the original dust on it. 

I believe the dust to be part of the natural weathering.

Tom 

(My dusty but lovable prewar #228)

Love the natural weathering. One big kick I get out of a train show is coming home with a great "catch" that you had no idea of buying.

Most important rule. Plan on going there and having fun ogling all the cool stuff you won't see in a store. And if you drool when you see something you want, people will give you room because they  don't want to catch whatever is ailing you. Makes it easier to look at things. 

Skip the big shows and go to the smaller shows where the vendors are mostly regular folks.  Look under the tables.  Look for O gauge on a HO sellers table.  Make a quick trip around when you get there and then go back around at a slower pace.

Hi Guys:

I just joined the forum.  I've been going to train shows since the mid-80s and York since '89.

The collected wisdom of this group pools into an amazing wealth of knowledge, and it's pretty funny too!

I have only some small comments to add. 

One is that every train show is different, both in the style of the show and in your needs in attending it.  If you're looking for a refurbished ZW, you'll attend a local show where a guy you've seen before is sure to have a table full of transformers.  If you're looking to buy a boxed new train set, maybe you'll hit Greenbergs and see what Charles Ro has.  If you want to cruise junk boxes for parts, nothing beats York's Purple Hall.  Over time, and with experience you'll get selective and have a pretty good idea where things are and what shows have in store.  There are always surprises, but the guys you regularly deal with can usually be found in the same old corner, ready to do business.

I brought my nephew to York when he was 6.  He wanted a military train.  I introduced him to Maury Klein of K-Line who took an instant shine to Caleb and hand picked his new train from the stock he had on hand at the show.  Sometimes, bringing a kid to a toy show can be magical. 

One last item.  With rare exceptions, our trains are assembly line, mass produced toys that we want, not need.  If the deal can't be made to your satisfaction, don't be afraid to walk away.  As in the NYC subway, another train will be along presently. 

Ed H

That piece on train collectors and dealers was scary I think I have seen or met most of them at just about every meet.  The worst ones are over hearing "Know It All Petes", and I am sure readers here can tell you their un/favorite dealer or buyer(s).

i go the last day and start around 12-4.  I see markdowns starting around 2pm.  so I will go around entire area and then come back and start dealing.  sometimes I get a good price depending on what is sitting there.  I primarily focus on buildings and rolling stock as engines are too iffy.  I like to deal with our forum guys on engines anyway.

C

As a 43 year veteran of TCA sponsored train shows, my advice is simple - forget the rules and HAVE FUN!  :-)

The following is my strategy. It may vary from that of others and many of these have already been mentioned.

I don’t go into a show expecting to find certain items. I have a general idea what I want in each area (diesels, steamers, rolling stock, accessories, roadnames) but not specifics. Unless you are buying new or are at a large one like York it will be a crap shoot as what is at the show. This gives me the opportunity to buy when the condition and prices are right rather than forcing a specific purchase when it is not. If you go in wanting an XYZ only you are likely to either overpay or be disappointed.

I try not to buy the first time around the show. This gives me the opportunity to get the “lay of the land”, in other words, which vendors have good selection and prices and which do not, which items are plentiful and which are not, and how prices are at this show. At any show you are likely to find one or more vendor who is "dealing". Occasionally I’ll buy on the first go-around if it’s something I really want or the price is so good I will not even haggle on it, but that is rare. I Keep notes on my phone on what I wee of interest and where it is. Yes, sometimes it is gone when I come back, but I f I wanted it that bad, I would have bought it first round and I'll see another one someday. If it is a big show you can do this on a building by building basis.

My wife often comes and does one circuit of the show and even gets a thing or to, then she hangs out while I make subsequent rounds. I can drop off my purchases to her rather than walking them back to the car and she is kind enough to make sure I get fed (I forget about food at a train show!)

At every show there are vendors who think it is still the late 1990s and their wares are a priced accordingly. It’s kind of sad because I see them bring the same way overpriced stuff to show after how, year after year. I don’t understand how they can make any money. A few of these will come way down on price to a good deal in modern times, but that is rare. I usually just keep moving.

I go in with a fixed amount of money and deal in cash. Cash in hand is more likely to buy a deal and keeps me from overspending.

Always haggle, that is my rule. Occasionally I’ll break this rule if the price is incredible or it is a very small item, but even on good prices and good vendors I still try to get a little bit off. First, it makes me feel good, second it leaves more money for other things, even if they are small things. If I can’t come to terms with a vendor, I’ll often try bundling it with other smaller items that I have some interest in and that gets us both to where we want to be. Vendors who will not haggle are generally not the type of vendors I want to deal with anyway. On most every transaction I have had with non-hagglers I have regretted afterwards. I generally don’t buy unless I get a great deal. Remember, all this stuff was mass produced so there will be another one out there later, if you are willing to wait. Always be willing to walk away, but always do so courteously. Haggling gets easier with experience, so don’t worry If you are not good at it at first.

Always be courteous and smile. Acknowledge a vendor in some way who notices or speaks to you. A good attitude is the best start toward a good deal. A few vendors are jerks, most are not. Some buyers a jerks and a good attitude immediately elevates you above them.

Bring some grocery bags in your back pocket. Most vendors have bags, but is helpful to them when you have your own and it comes in really handy when a vendor does not or has run out.

I much prefer shows over online because you can touch and feel a piece. No amount of pictures can equate to that. You can also see how the vendor treats his merchandise and how he interacts with other customers to determine if it is the type of seller you want to do business with. Plus, no shipping charges.

I get there well after the opening to avoid the line and stay to the end. As she show winds down, there are many deals to be had. They would rather carry home cash than merchandise. Many vendors pack up early no matter what the rules or repercussions are, but if you time it right, this is when they are most likely to deal.

And of course, enjoy yourself in whatever way suits you. After all you _are_ at a TRAIN show!

My last train show purchase was a new in the box, though not "mint", LGB steeple cab E-lok. The seller had $200 on it, and after examining it, I asked if he could do better on the price, and he replied $175, and I purchased it. He had a Square and my wife paid him with her credit card. This transaction was before the start of the show, as I was a TCA member with a cane, and my 40 year train bud/gatekeeper let me in 30 minutes before the public was admitted! Came to find out from an LGB dealer friend that he listed his last 2030E lok at $330, and it sold quickly. It is a sweet runner, and I feel like I got a good deal!

RonH posted:

Richie C. posted:

My pet peeve is small time dealers/sellers at shows who want to add sales tax to my purchase.

I can understand major dealers, like many of our forum sponsors, collecting sales tax because I'm confident the money will actually go the state but, seriously, does anybody think the guy with the 6' table from across the country and a supply of used scenery is really going to turn that sales tax money over to the state or is it just going to pay for his lunch and gas money ? 

To sell at a lot of shows (in NJ) you are required to have a state sales tax ID even if you are a small seller.
If someone from the state checks you will have a problem.
I agree with you as that was the way shows used to be back in the 80's.
Some of the larger dealers do not charge sales tax but incorporate the tax into the selling price of a item.

I have no issue with doing the tax thing, but if you're selling used equipment and dealing in cash, do everyone a favor and factor it into the price. That is what the vast majority of sellers do (or they're not doing the tax thing at all.) As a buyer I have no desire to screw with dimes, nickels and pennies at a show, and when I negotiate a price, that is what I expect to pay. It's hard enough keeping the bills organized during a show.

In the five shows I've attended in the last year I probably dealt with 30 or so vendors, all via cash. Only one added on tax, and before that he wouldn't haggle at all and was most unfriendly. Even had a little cash register to figure it up (that should have clued me in.) I wished I had set the trains down and waked away but I didn't.

There are as many approaches to train shows as there are ways to pursue this great hobby of ours, so what works for YOU is the BEST way!  ::WINK::

I don’t have any science to this. Once you enter the show and are surrounded by trains and good people it all comes together. I’ll buy on impulse something that catches my eye, usually items that are unique or not available through dealers any longer. I save major purchases for the dealer of my choice. 

Many dealers overprice their stuff for sale so be patient, comparison shop and if you want to buy something be sure to "chisel em down" and ask for a discount.  I've saved thousands over the years with this technique. Remember "money talks nobody walks". 

MNCW posted:

Ed, Some of that was pretty funny. Where did you find it? Apparently, I am related to:

Percy the Purist- Wouldn't think of buying a train unless it had all the original dust on it. 

I believe the dust to be part of the natural weathering.

Tom 

(My dusty but lovable prewar #228)

MNCW - I don't recall where this was from originally, thinking it was from one of the magazines, maybe CTT.  I had it saved as a scan many years ago.  Makes me laugh every time I read it.

It was CTT; if memory serves, John Grams wrote it.

On the question of sales tax.  If you pay a dealer in cash, how do we know he isn't pocketing the extra money ?   I can understand the tax thing if paying with a credit card, as I don't think the vendor can hide the tax from the taxman.