Mr. Dickens stopped by my shop for a while this afternoon. He and his crew are taking a little time off from the US tour they just completed a few weeks ago. He said the 4014 ran just beautifully, only a couple of minor hiccups, nothing that affected the running. When they get back to work they have a few items that needed tweeking, he didn't specify exactly what. He showed me a picture of the original 4014 tender insides. The interior baffling was almost totally corroded and rusted away. That is why instead of trying to rebuild the original tender, they elected to use 3985's tender. His crew was cut by 2 people now that the major work has been completed.

On the subject of 3985, Ed said he wouldn't mind restoring/rebuilding 3985, but UP told him they only want 2 operating steam locos. UP didn't want the expense of 3 operating locos, I guess insurance and maintenance costs. The fate of 3985 is still to be determined, but Ed hopes will be donated someplace close to Cheyenne, so he could run over and grab a part if needed!

Just a little update to pass along.

 

Original Post

When I went to see the engine a couple months ago, Ed mentioned that they were planning to construct a new tender for 4014. They got a quote from a contractor, but thought it was too high, so they decided they would construct it themselves. Things change, but it'll be interesting to see what happens.

PRR 5841 posted:

Ughh!! 3985 donated to sit outside somewhere and rot!?!  An ignominious end to an otherwise sterling career.  The 3985 is the prettiest of the three, hope UP comes up with a better plan.

Agreed. 4014 is just too long to look good.

Steve

 

smd4 posted:
PRR 5841 posted:

Ughh!! 3985 donated to sit outside somewhere and rot!?!  An ignominious end to an otherwise sterling career.  The 3985 is the prettiest of the three, hope UP comes up with a better plan.

Agreed. 4014 is just too long to look good.

DITTO!

PAUL ROMANO posted:
smd4 posted:
PRR 5841 posted:

Ughh!! 3985 donated to sit outside somewhere and rot!?!  An ignominious end to an otherwise sterling career.  The 3985 is the prettiest of the three, hope UP comes up with a better plan.

Agreed. 4014 is just too long to look good.

DITTO!

Quadruple that, I saw her in person, years ago on a siding in Houston when she was here for the Super Bowl.  Steve Lee and his fireman talked to me for a while and were extremely friendly.  The proportions on the Challengers are just all right.  Plus it seems such a slap to those original UP volunteers who brought her back to life originally.

4014 brings out the crowds, and serves as better publicity/public relations for the railroad. But the Challenger looks better. As TexasSP said, it's better proportioned. The Big Boys just look hulky. The Challengers look much better pulling passenger cars as well, which they sometimes did when operational. It was a faster engine, and that's no surprise when looking at a visual comparison.

breezinup posted:

4014 brings out the crowds, and serves as better publicity/public relations for the railroad. But the Challenger looks better. As TexasSP said, it's better proportioned. The Big Boys just look hulky. The Challengers look much better pulling passenger cars as well, which they sometimes did when operational.

Not "sometimes". Quite a number of the UP Challengers were converted to oil burning, Wind Wings ( smoke lifters) added, and even painted in two-tone gray, and assigned to passenger service out of Portland, OR and LA, CA.

It was a faster engine,

Sure was! Good for well over 70 MPH.

and that's no surprise when looking at a visual comparison.

Truth be told, many of the visiting members of the public thought that 3985 was a "Big Boy" anyway. The majority of the public couldn't tell a Challenger from a "Big Boy".

 

Hot Water posted:
breezinup posted:

4014 brings out the crowds, and serves as better publicity/public relations for the railroad. But the Challenger looks better. As TexasSP said, it's better proportioned. The Big Boys just look hulky. The Challengers look much better pulling passenger cars as well, which they sometimes did when operational.

Not "sometimes". Quite a number of the UP Challengers were converted to oil burning, Wind Wings ( smoke lifters) added, and even painted in two-tone gray, and assigned to passenger service out of Portland, OR and LA, CA.

It was a faster engine,

Sure was! Good for well over 70 MPH.

and that's no surprise when looking at a visual comparison.

Truth be told, many of the visiting members of the public thought that 3985 was a "Big Boy" anyway. The majority of the public couldn't tell a Challenger from a "Big Boy".

 

And on the positive side, the Challenger usually operated without any obnoxious graffiti on the smokebox door.

--

Thanks, Bob

ecd15 posted:
Hot Water posted:
breezinup posted:

4014 brings out the crowds, and serves as better publicity/public relations for the railroad. But the Challenger looks better. As TexasSP said, it's better proportioned. The Big Boys just look hulky. The Challengers look much better pulling passenger cars as well, which they sometimes did when operational.

Not "sometimes". Quite a number of the UP Challengers were converted to oil burning, Wind Wings ( smoke lifters) added, and even painted in two-tone gray, and assigned to passenger service out of Portland, OR and LA, CA.

It was a faster engine,

Sure was! Good for well over 70 MPH.

and that's no surprise when looking at a visual comparison.

Truth be told, many of the visiting members of the public thought that 3985 was a "Big Boy" anyway. The majority of the public couldn't tell a Challenger from a "Big Boy".

 

And on the positive side, the Challenger usually operated without any obnoxious graffiti on the smokebox door.

Yes, that too. Plus, 3985 didn't require diesel "assistance" EVERY PLACE she traveled.

 

From a pure operations perspective, I'd go the extra mile and say the 3985 is the better engine for the steam program.  Designed and engineered to be able to operate at passenger train speeds--which causes less congestion on the railroad--and better fuel economy than a 4000.  It's also "big" enough to be very impressive to anyone who sees it trackside.  That being said, we're lucky that they choose to run anything.  Regardless of anything else, change is inevitable, so enjoy what you have while you have it.  Nothing lasts forever...

kgdjpubs posted:

From a pure operations perspective, I'd go the extra mile and say the 3985 is the better engine for the steam program.  Designed and engineered to be able to operate at passenger train speeds--which causes less congestion on the railroad--and better fuel economy than a 4000.  It's also "big" enough to be very impressive to anyone who sees it trackside.  That being said, we're lucky that they choose to run anything.  Regardless of anything else, change is inevitable, so enjoy what you have while you have it.  Nothing lasts forever...

Further it can go places that 844 and 4014 cannot.  Seems like a slam dunk to me.  After all the initial broohaha over the BB, will the level of excitement stay versus having the 3985?  My guess is most who wanted to see the BB have, and all the others are just out to see a big steam engine.

BTW, Hotwater, do you know who would have been the fireman on the Super Bowl run back in 2004?

TexasSP posted:
kgdjpubs posted:

From a pure operations perspective, I'd go the extra mile and say the 3985 is the better engine for the steam program.  Designed and engineered to be able to operate at passenger train speeds--which causes less congestion on the railroad--and better fuel economy than a 4000.  It's also "big" enough to be very impressive to anyone who sees it trackside.  That being said, we're lucky that they choose to run anything.  Regardless of anything else, change is inevitable, so enjoy what you have while you have it.  Nothing lasts forever...

Further it can go places that 844 and 4014 cannot.  Seems like a slam dunk to me.  After all the initial broohaha over the BB, will the level of excitement stay versus having the 3985?  My guess is most who wanted to see the BB have, and all the others are just out to see a big steam engine.

BTW, Hotwater, do you know who would have been the fireman on the Super Bowl run back in 2004?

I couldn't make the trip south to Houston, but they flew be down there for the return trip back to Cheyenne. Naturally, the further north we traveled, the colder it got. Arriving in Kansas City, with more than a foot of snow on the ground, the temperature was always below freezing. The next lay-over, in Marysville, KS was approaching single digits, and North Platte, NE was below zero! Even with that all-weather cab all closed up, all that steel gets REALLY cold.

 

Hot Water posted:
TexasSP posted:
kgdjpubs posted:

From a pure operations perspective, I'd go the extra mile and say the 3985 is the better engine for the steam program.  Designed and engineered to be able to operate at passenger train speeds--which causes less congestion on the railroad--and better fuel economy than a 4000.  It's also "big" enough to be very impressive to anyone who sees it trackside.  That being said, we're lucky that they choose to run anything.  Regardless of anything else, change is inevitable, so enjoy what you have while you have it.  Nothing lasts forever...

Further it can go places that 844 and 4014 cannot.  Seems like a slam dunk to me.  After all the initial broohaha over the BB, will the level of excitement stay versus having the 3985?  My guess is most who wanted to see the BB have, and all the others are just out to see a big steam engine.

BTW, Hotwater, do you know who would have been the fireman on the Super Bowl run back in 2004?

I couldn't make the trip south to Houston, but they flew be down there for the return trip back to Cheyenne. Naturally, the further north we traveled, the colder it got. Arriving in Kansas City, with more than a foot of snow on the ground, the temperature was always below freezing. The next lay-over, in Marysville, KS was approaching single digits, and North Platte, NE was below zero! Even with that all-weather cab all closed up, all that steel gets REALLY cold.

 

Thanks Hotwater.  When I came across 3985, it was after the Super Bowl and on a siding off Holly Hall down the rode from the stadium.  If I recall correctly Steve said the crew was leaving out the next morning.  The reason I recall this is that my grandfather retired from the SP, and when I told Steve this he said bring him by, but I wouldn't be able to until the next day.

I never got to see 3985 in person but was really hoping to, seeing the 4014 was very exciting but I have to say that between the two, I'd take the 3985 over the 4014 any day of the week.  Of course being a diehard SP fan and ex SP switchman, I'd take the SP AC-9's (3800 series) plus the Cab Forwards over both the 3985 and the 4014.  I can still remember seeing  them going up the North Line towards Alamogordo, NM along with the Cab Forwards.  They used to scare the daylights out of me when I was very little but as I got older I loved every second of it as they went by.  The ground was shaking like a leaf as they pounded the rails heading  up grade, I believe it was 2% but not 100% about that anymore.

I'd much rather see UP put the 4014 back out to pasture and maybe use it on occasion and rebuild the 3985.

Thanks for a great thread and discussion guys, brought back a lot of memories.

JEM

sptrainnut

TCA 12-67009

 

Tinplate Art posted:

Again, we should all be grateful for ANY UP steam operating in today's railroading climate!

Did anyone say they weren't thankful? C'mon, Art. People are allowed to prefer one steam engine over another, for any reason they want.

Steve

 

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