Talked to Lionel today. Flickering firebox is not installed in Berks. Mine hasn't had a problem yet crossing my fingers

I am not a vet so everyone calling Lionel service center should get free shipping on the repair. I wouldn't contact any other of their approved service centers. You want to send it to a place where they have parts for a new product.

NPR = National Public Radio

NKP = Nickel Plate Road

Thanks so much for correcting my mistake. How stupid of me

Unpacked my Southern Berk.  Oiled, set switches added smoke fluid. No smoke. Smoke fan not running. Turned off smoke switch and had smoke. Switch installed backwards. No big deal. Runs and smokes beautiful. Guys check switch if no smoke.  Love my NKR also. Spelled right?

NKP.  !!!!!

My FC NKP Berk arrived today, and I am somewhat underwhelmed, although from what I have read, I guess I should be grateful that at least it runs. Actually, it didn't run at first, because one of the wire terminals on the front tender truck wiper was contacting  the side frame, causing a short. Additionally, the electro coupler doesn't seem to work, and I'm not sure it is worth spending the money for return postage (and risking possible shipping damage) to try to get it fixed. I had hoped for it to have mounting options to accommodate Kadee couplers, but I guess  I'm on my own there. Predictably, I am disappointed by the cast on handrails on the boiler and also the tender deck. The cast rails on the boiler are a bit less offensive than I had anticipated from the photos, but the cast on handrails on the tender deck look worse to me than I had expected. The missing tender steps, as well as the missing backup light, seem to me to be pretty obvious omissions, and the lack of any crew figures in the cab, and the non-flickering firebox is also disappointment, since it was touted in the pre-release hype. I'm wondering where are the added details compared to the Polar Express loco?

I had two different road names of this loco on pre-order, but I'm seriously considering just forfeiting my deposit on the other one. As much as I like my LionChief Mikado, I find this loco so disappointing after waiting for so long that I can't see pre-ordering any more items from Lionel in the future. If I can't see it before I buy it, then I just don't need it, who needs the disappointment?

Bill in FtL

Bill

So sorry to here about your disappointment, as i know how frustrating this can be.  With more and more of this happening I believe the pre-order and BTO are going to go by the wayside. I hear  more and more from buyers of these types of issues and for what they are paying feel they can wait until it is purchased by someone else to see what issues there are if any? keep us posted

joeg

Just a little disappointment. Just remember on is off.  Off is on smokes and runs excellent. Not the end of the world. Once you set it you forget about. Not worth the trouble to send back over this. 

Quick update on my C&O Berk:  Called Lionel service and from the symptoms described, they told me very politely that there are no parts to fix it.  Sent it to Charles Ro (cost almost $20), and will be waiting for any results.  I'm not very optimistic.  A great way to run a railroad.  Doesn't anyone at the factory test run these things?  I remember seeing a video of the Gilbert factory where a test track was set up and EVERY locomotive was test run before shipment. 

Bill in FtL, As far as differences between this locomotive and the PE one, the C&O has a more specific boiler front with very nice number boards and a more reasonable pilot (the PE's pilot is a fanciful one anyway).  The C&O one has a slightly more complicated paint scheme and lettered builder's plate where the PE's one is blank.  Nicely done.  The PE doesn't have an electrocoupler, but who needs it?  It's run as a unit train anyway.  I'd rather have the working tender light.  The boiler backhead on both is a good starting point for detailing, and as far as crew figures go, there are a couple of sources for them if you want a bit more detail.  Not a whole lot different from what was promised.

Do I wish these Berks had separate piping and handrails?  Yes, but again, neither were promised.  From a few feet away, it's not that noticeable.  I've toyed with the idea of grinding them off, making my own and repainting the locomotive, but I don't need any more projects.  I'd rather have a locomotive that RUNS!  For those who wish a more detailed Berkshire, you can always go the brass route, but expect to pay a LOT more!

Happy New Year, guys.  For those of you who have a running Berk, consider yourself fortunate.  I wish you further success on its longevity.

Hey Jerry,

Don't you use DC to run your trains?  Perhaps you could avoid the aggravation and just take out all the electronic boards in the thing.  That’s what I did with the Mikado and it performs just like my AM or SHS locos that are DC from the factory.  What to do with the smoke unit is another matter, but I would guess someone here would know.

That is my fallback position when my Berk arrives. And if Flyonel doesn’t have the replacement parts, gutting the thing might be the only option to having it run at all – smoke or no smoke.

I am with you that this is my last Flyonel pre-order item.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom:  These Berks run on DC without any modification.

Bill, even Jerry's?

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

poniaj posted:

Quick update on my C&O Berk:  Called Lionel service and from the symptoms described, they told me very politely that there are no parts to fix it.  Sent it to Charles Ro (cost almost $20), and will be waiting for any results.  I'm not very optimistic.  A great way to run a railroad.  Doesn't anyone at the factory test run these things?  I remember seeing a video of the Gilbert factory where a test track was set up and EVERY locomotive was test run before shipment....

Hi Jerry,

When the Lionel rep told you there were no parts, did they mean "at this moment", or is it Lionel's intention not to stock any parts period? I have heard from several sources over the years that the Chinese manufacturers don't want to deal with parts, they only want to sell complete items.

Bill in FtL

They told me nothing like that.  Lionel gave me an Return Authorization number and a UPS shipping label and it went in for repair on the 29th.  I am sure I will have it back and repaired soon.

I suspect it'll take a couple of months for parts to catch up.  When I had to return my fresh-off-the-boat U33C in 2012, it was a little over 2 months before I got it back.

Rusty

Received my NKP Berk a few days ago and finally got to run it today.

Sure it would have been nice to have wire handrails, 4 chuffs per revolution, tender steps, but for the price point it's aimed at, it's a pretty nice engine.

The railsounds chuff, whistle and smoke are not up to legacy standards, but not bad.

The Flyerchief control is pretty much idiot proof

Entering the yard.

Stopping for a drink at a recently built water tower.

Finally got to some recent York purchases.

Companionship.

Now that winters here, back to layout work.

Rich

richabr posted:

Received my NKP Berk a few days ago and finally got to run it today.

Sure it would have been nice to have wire handrails, 4 chuffs per revolution, tender steps, but for the price point it's aimed at, it's a pretty nice engine.

Entering the yard.

Rich

 

 

 

Thanks for posting the photo's Rich, I particularly like the above two.

Granted, Lionel could have done a little more with the handrails and such, but overall it's not looking too bad.  

Still waiting for mine to show up at my LHS.

Rusty

Tom S.,

Gutting the Berk down to its basic motor isn't an option any more.  I sent it back to Charlie Ro.  Altough it's an option for those who want to do so. 

Bill in FtL,

I was told by the person at Lionel Service that there "are no replacement parts".  No mention of getting more in the future.  I don't think there will be any available at ANY time.  They didn't even offer a return authorization number, let alone a pre paid shipping label, and I was told to send it to the dealer.  Again, a great way to run a business.  I was treated as a nuisance, not a customer.  Complaining to Lionel or any of its representatives is a waste of time and energy.  They don't care about customers any more.  And for sure, this former customer doesn't care about them! 

For those of you who have a running Berk.... just wait.  Some of you have already had traction tires come off the Polar Express set and smoke units have failed.  Generally, what's the percentage of failures on these Berks?  Unknown.  But for me it's 100%. 

In hindsight, I should have taken mine apart to see if the problem was simply a broken or loose wire.  But I took the advice of the manual.  Yes, it would have voided the warranty, but in my case it's worthless anyway.  I've been tinkering with S gauge trains for 55 years, and have even replaced elements on circuit boards and moved components around to make things fit.  Like the modern Docksider board so as to fit into this.  I used the board so as to allow it to run on AC and also keep the smoke unit and directional headlight functioning:

But to dig into a brand new item is unacceptable!  Gilbert tested every one of their engines before shipping, why can't Lionel? 

According to the tracking number I have on my returned Berk, Charlie Ro should be getting the locomotive in a day or two.  I await the verdict on it being able to be fixed.  But no matter the outcome, No more Lionel.

Jerry,

If Lionel doesn’t have replacement parts (didn’t there used to be a law about that?) and I’m assuming they won’t exchange the locomotive, what does sending it back to Ro do?

 Where does one go to return a defective item for a refund?  If there are no repair parts, then the options seem to be return for refund, use it as a paperweight or gut the thing back to the DC motor.

 I’m a bit apprehensive because mine is in transit and I will have it Tuesday or Wednesday.  From what I read, I can expect it not to run at all or if it should for some reason operate okay, then I am assured that the smoke unit will go and the traction tires will fail – oh boy, I can hardly what!

 Nice work on the Thomas BTW.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom Stoltz posted:

Jerry,

 

If Lionel doesn’t have replacement parts (didn’t there used to be a law about that?) and I’m assuming they won’t exchange the locomotive, what does sending it back to Ro do?

I don't think anything we say here will make Jerry feel any better.

It seems like Lionel is putting the responsibility of refunding the customer on the dealers shoulders.  Once it goes up the chain for refund, who knows how long it will take the dealer to get his money back.  Maybe big dealers like Ro can absorb the wait time, (seeing they don't have to go through a distributor) but the smaller guys who can't go direct likely won't.

Back in 2011, when I complained about inconsistencies between what was cataloged and what was delivered on the Gray Challenger, they offered to buy it back.  (I made the decision to keep it.)

But then, maybe they only did it because the Challenger was an operating "high end" Legacy model and not a failing mid-range "Chief+" model.  Still, 300 bucks (give or take) is still a nice piece of change for a lot of folks. 

I will be testing my Berk at the LHS when it arrives, but plodding back and forth for a few seconds on an 8' long test track won't say much, other than giving a warm fuzzy that it ran out of the box.  I've got a loop set up, well see how handles extended running then.

Rusty

Received my Berkshire (KNP) on the, 29th Dec.  Set it up and have been running it daily for no less than 30 minutes, total running time is approximately 3 hours.  Tried it in conventional and Flyer Chief+ modes.  It did not like the grades in conventional, so most of the time is in Flyer Chief+.  Really like the control, particularly at low speeds, the FC gives.  Not had any problems with it so far, runs great, smokes OK, whistle has low volume compared to the other rail sounds.  Cast on parts are not appreciably noticeable at running distances.  With all the problems written about here, thought a positive note would help alleviate some of the anxiety for those who are still waiting for their unit.  Hope Lionel can work through the production problems and produce a quality, non returnable product for the S gauge market in the future.  Keeping my fingers crossed on this and future products .

Roger

Finally unpacked and ran my NKP Berkshire, which I ordered from Charles Ro after I rode on the Erie Limited Excursion pulled by the 1:1 scale NKP 765 last summer.

So far, so good.

Mike

We had four separate Berks running Saturday, one the P.E. Berk which previously ran for a six hour stretch at one show and about five hours the next weekend, plus three of the new Berks. We had the NKP, a Southern, and a C&O. all ran Saturday without incident. As far as the low volume of the Railsounds, two of these had the stock speaker replaced with a Fatboy speaker from Electric Railroad. This definitely increase the volume of the sound unit.

Ray

Sharing a YouTube Video to go along with Ray's Comments in previous post.

Testing the Lionel S Gauge American Flyer Berkshires On Wayne's Plywood Central Railroad 01-02-2016

https://youtu.be/fk2qMaciq4k

Very Happy With My Berkshires.

Fred

Engineer Fred posted:

 

Sharing a YouTube Video to go along with Ray's Comments in previous post.

Testing the Lionel S Gauge American Flyer Berkshires On Wayne's Plywood Central Railroad 01-02-2016

https://youtu.be/fk2qMaciq4k

Very Happy With My Berkshires.

Fred

 

Fred,

Thanks for sharing the video, on a side note can you tell me about the Auto hauler cars, they look very nice.

It is too bad so many are having issues with the Berkshires, I sure hope it turns out to be a small percentage of what was built, and that solutions are available to those with broken units.

I have a PE, and have had a few issues mostly the broken wires in the pilot truck and the passenger car lights.

Aflyer

Nice video Fred! I especially like the auto carriers. Every time I make one of those I end up selling it for one reason or another. Now I want to make some more!

Mark

Picked up my two Berkshires from the hobby store right before the New Year. Finally got to check them out today. I got a Nickle Plate Road and a C&O Berkshire.  Both operated as advertised, thank goodness!  I have been no stranger to the Lionel repair department!  Both operated fine in conventional and Flyer Chief mode, with superior performance in Flyer Chief mode. I am not impressed with the sounds, they are okay but nothing great. I wish that they could be turned down, and they should have been four chuffs per revolution.  But I am very satisfied overall.  I will mostly run them without smoke as most new locomotives produce too much for me.  The automatic coupler is next to useless as it does not open far enough to disengage the coupler on the following car (1980's era). I will later try them with Gilbert,  American Models, and S-helper/MTH couplers to see if I have better results.  The Flyer Chief controls are also finicky when using the coupler, I end up sounding the whistle most of the time.  Overall I am pleased with the new locomotives, I have two new ones for half the cost of the articulated locomotives.

Major, Look at the engine manual as there is a way to alter volume if you think its to loud.

Engineer Fred posted:

 

Sharing a YouTube Video to go along with Ray's Comments in previous post.

Testing the Lionel S Gauge American Flyer Berkshires On Wayne's Plywood Central Railroad 01-02-2016

https://youtu.be/fk2qMaciq4k

Very Happy With My Berkshires.

Fred

 

I like the look of that track. What brand is it?

cocker posted:

Just a little disappointment. Just remember on is off.  Off is on smokes and runs excellent. Not the end of the world. Once you set it you forget about. Not worth the trouble to send back over this. 

Are you saying the Berkshire's smoke on/off switch is labeled backwards? My engine says smoke is "on" but I can neither see or smell any smoke, nor can I feel the fan blowing. I'm not a big fan of the smoke and have it switched "off" on any of my locos that have it, so I'd like to be sure it is actually off...

Bill in FtL

Enjoyed the videos. Thanks for sharing. My NKP  and Southern Berks run flawless   Polar Express had to take a detour back to Lionel but is back. Pleased with repairs. For the money I can live with cast-in handrails and pipping 

My switch was apparently installed backwards or leads internally reversed. Been repairing  trains for 45 yrs so I'm not blowing smoke if you know what I mean

I'm not saying all engines. Just one of my 3 were like this

The Pere Marquette engine arrived on Sat.  Excellent runner, especially at very slow speed.  It seems to automatically compensate for the different voltage levels along the layout.  I like how it throws a big puff of smoke for every chuff.  Nice builder's and trust plates.  The drivers and blackened rods look great.  Only complaints, the whistle could be louder and I would have passed on the electrocoupler to get cab figures instead.  

Thanks for sharing the video, on a side note can you tell me about the Auto hauler cars, they look very nice.

Aflyer,

These car carriers are Lionel O-27 car carriers. They have been reasonably inexpensive on EBAY. The width is perfect for S gauge, I removed the Lionel trucks and replaced them with Gilbert Flyer knuckle trucks and made an adapter to move the trucks a bit closer to the ends of the cars while using the original mounting holes in the cars for the pivot point. The loads for the most part are M-2 vehicles. The red carriers are Santa Fe with the original markings and the yellow cars were C&O but were re-lettered to Milwaukee Road.

Ray

John23 posted:

The Pere Marquette engine arrived on Sat.  Excellent runner, especially at very slow speed.  It seems to automatically compensate for the different voltage levels along the layout.  I like how it throws a big puff of smoke for every chuff.  Nice builder's and trust plates.  The drivers and blackened rods look great.  Only complaints, the whistle could be louder and I would have passed on the electrocoupler to get cab figures instead.  

I agree about the coupler, especially since mine doesn't work at all, and there have been reports from some whose couplers do work that they don't actually open up enough to fully release the following coupler. As for figures in the cab, my LC+ Mikado came with them, so I expected them in the FC+ Berkshire as well. True, the FC+ has a slightly lower list price, but the O gauge loco is bigger and heavier, plus the street prices between the two aren't that different. I am more disappointed by the lack of a rear light in the tender, which, upon inspection with the shell off, it looks as if the light was planned ffor, but left off at the last minute. Instead of the electro-coupler, I would have preferred to have the handheld unit control the lights on/off.

Bill in FtL

Rayin"S" posted:

Thanks for sharing the video, on a side note can you tell me about the Auto hauler cars, they look very nice.

 

Aflyer,

These car carriers are Lionel O-27 car carriers. They have been reasonably inexpensive on EBAY. The width is perfect for S gauge, I removed the Lionel trucks and replaced them with Gilbert Flyer knuckle trucks and made an adapter to move the trucks a bit closer to the ends of the cars while using the original mounting holes in the cars for the pivot point. The loads for the most part are M-2 vehicles. The red carriers are Santa Fe with the original markings and the yellow cars were C&O but were re-lettered to Milwaukee Road.

Ray

Ray,

Thank you for the details, looks like I will be going shopping on the O gauge side!

Aflyer

Just a comment on the negativity on Lionel.  As a newby to "S", there is neither alot to choose from, nor many manufacturers.  Over zealous criticism of manufacturers that at least try to put out new product at a reasonable price, may convince Lionel, MTH and others to forego new production.

Part of the reason I didn't go S 10 years ago was that at the shows, it was always the same old 1950's overpriced stuff, just Atlantics, Pacifics and Northerns in steam.  I am very satisfied with my PE Berk.

It is much less than an O scale and about the same as an HO scale.  Look at the prices of the old stuff and then look at the new Lionel Berk prices and capabilities.  Are there hi-cups in the technology? yes, but everyone who had a problem, so far, has been resolved on this site.

Francine, I don't think it's overzealous criticism to report problems with a new product.  Several folks here have had poor luck with their Berkshires and have reported it on this and other forums.  All one has to do is follow the 3-rail side and you will see the S folks are not alone with their issues with the manufacturers.

When one is told there aren't replacement parts available and given no indication that there will ever be any, exactly what is the user supposed to feel?  Happy that he just threw 300 bucks down the drain on something he's waited well over a year for?  Happy that he's got to pay shipping back to a dealer for repair/return/refund?

Especially after there was some assurance from the manufacture that the new Berks were going to be better in quality than the set Berks due to shifting production to a different factory.

I've had several issues myself with new products and have reported on them here.  Some I decided a workaround was better than sending it back, others were sent back.  Likewise, I have reported when the issue was resolved to my satisfaction. 

I am eagerly awaiting my LHS to call that my Berk's arrived.  I'm hoping all will be well with it.  Either way, my impressions of it will be posted here.

Rusty