Having a problem with the new Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller? "A Fly In The Ointment" (Updated April 9th, 2017)

I've heard similar reports from folks where if one engine is not addressed for a while it will not respond.  Other than being able to confirm that it is not just you, I'm afraid I have little else to offer right now. 

The problem seems to be time based, but I do not know what interval becomes a problem.  Perhaps someone could do some testing on that?  

I think it was mentioned that turning off then back on the remote would solve the problem, but that is an annoyance at the least.  For now all I can offer is to time how long you can go without a glitch , then make sure you switch to the other engines in that amount of time to maintain the signal.  

I would also recommend calling and or writing to Lionel to inform them of the issue, though I expect they know about it by now.  It never hurts to add one more voice asking for a fix.  

On the plus side, the remote is designed in such a way that it can easily be updated with new firmware, so a future patch should be able to solve the problem.  

JGL

Ive been thinking about getting one of those but then again I'm waiting to see if/when/and how the LC+ engines will work on Bluetooth! 

Atlas Shrugged is one of my favorite film series!   

Thought an update regarding the Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller problem that I was experiencing back in early February might be of interest.
I did alert and report the malfunction to Lionel LLC Customer Service and eventually was issued an RA for returning the remote to them (return shipping paid by me). They were also supplied with multiple videos and communications fully describing the issue. My Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller was sent back to them on February 17th...the thought was at that time...that because nobody else had reported the same issue, it would be tested but more than likely a new replacement would be sent in its place. A month later, March 20th, a replacement Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller was received from Lionel LLC.
It was removed from the box...batteries installed...programmed and after a few minutes of operating trains...it too experienced the same malfunction. So this was also communicated to Lionel LLC and a 2nd replacement was sent to me...after operating trains with it for a few minutes...it too experienced the same malfunction. This was again reported to Lionel LLC along with a couple of additional videos.
The original Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller that I returned was then sent by them to their engineering department for further testing. The latest communication that I received, as of the first part of April, was that they have determined that there is a bug in the code. The fix will be worked on by engineering but it could take up to six (6) months, maybe by October?
So if you purchased one of the Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controllers and have experienced anything similar to what I have...be sure report it to Lionel LLC Customer Service.
For now, I won't be using the Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller that I have until they do come up with a fix...and it could possibly be out of warranty by the time they do? There is just something about operating trains on your layout and knowing at some point that the locomotives will all simultaneously stop dead on the tracks...that really takes away from having a enjoyable session. This malfunction has never happened when using the dedicated remotes that came with each of the four (4) LC+ locomotives and one (1) LC Thomas that I have purchased, so I'll be using the dedicated remotes for the time being.

A video showing the sequence of events...malfunction, shutdown and restart, is attached to this post.

The head of Lionel LLC Customer Services has been my primary contact and is very forthcoming and helpful, so this communication is meant to be solely and only for informational purposes.

Paul,

I experienced the same issue with my LC Universal Remote, and have gone back to using the individual remotes for now.
Any word on how the LC/LC+ Universal remotes can get the updated firmware once the fix is released?

Thanks

Bruce

Bruce,

I'll apologize first...And then, hate to say it, but glad to hear I'm not alone with this problem. If you haven't already done so...might be helpful if you reported it to Lionel LLC Customer Service so that they and you have it on record.

I don't have any idea when or how they would make the firmware update once they find the bug in the code...not really sure that they do!

Of interest to me though, was what they are advertising the Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller with on their website, it has a new color scheme as well as button graphics changes and the change engine buttons have been relocated as well. When I inquired, I was told that it was only an artists rendition and was not in production??? You can check it out here:

https://lionel-uploads.s3.amaz...moteC2_78-79.pdf?v=1

I also have the identical problem, you are not alone.  I hope a firmware update is possible.

Under the assumption that the firmware that is currently on the remotes is written in the way it has been explained by a couple Lionel folks here on the forum,  once a patch is available it should be able to be installed over bluetooth, likely with an app made for this purpose.  

I do hope this one gets sorted out, as it seems like a pretty big problem. 

JGL

Paul - thanks for bringing this to Lionel's attention. We had spent over a month testing the remote, and never experienced this issue. It seems to only be happening with the RF locos and not the BLE. But it is a code bug. I have your old remote on my desk, have been testing it thoroughly, and duplicated the issue.

We are beginning code rework now and will take a few months. The code then needs thorough testing, etc. So I would expect an update for the remotes late summer/early fall. With this 'initial' update, this issue will be taken care of along with having the remote be able to control more of the older RF engines and some other features we have in mind.

To update the UR, we have developed an APP that will be released at the same time as the update. It will be for Android or Apple, and uses your phone's Bluetooth to send the new code to the remote. Takes about 4 minutes for the code to upload. Works quite well and is easy to use.

Sorry for the inconvenience this initial code release has caused. There always seem to be some unseen code bugs in the initial releases of products, but we're working away at solutions and stand by our product.

Also - the link above shows the original artwork for the remote. It was finally decided to make the entire case orange and we changed the button design slightly. So as shipped is how they will look from here out.

One last comment - we are getting closer everyday on an Android version of the LionChief APP and are hoping to have that out mid Summer.

Thanks!

Dave Olson posted:

One last comment - we are getting closer everyday on an Android version of the LionChief APP and are hoping to have that out mid Summer.

Thanks!

Excellent to hear this news on Android version.

This is the video I made on the Universal Remote, January 7, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHiClJLFCLk

This issue has come up on my layout,  I use this with my grandchildren and at first I thought they were doing something wrong. 

It seems to happen after about 10 to 15 minutes of run time.  The shifting between the locos, will cause a shud down.  About 1700 viewers have watched this YT video and two of my viewers, sent me an e-mail question bout the shut down issue.

Question for Dave Olson:  Is Lionel going to be able to fix this issue? If so I will call in for a re-turn authorization number, when you have a fix.  Mean while we are still using the Universal Remote.  When it does happen, we do a reset and keep running the trains.

At the end of the day, I have four LionChief Plus locos on my layout, and they provide Classic Lionel Fun,  each person get's their own controller with speed control.  I have also ordered the:

Thanks: Gary

Gary...Looking at the updated Lionel shipping schedule...I see the Pere Marquette Caboose is listed as June 2017. The Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controllers are showing in August 2017...must be a second run? Then, unfortunately for you and I...there are a bunch of LC+ Mikato's...but NO LC+ Pere Marquette Berkshires scheduled for 2017 delivery! I know I had pre-ordered both and as I recall...you did too.

As for your question to Dave, he mentions in his response that they will have an APP and the update would be available through Bluetooth on your phone.

Back to the Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller...you mentioned above that you continued to use it after the restart procedure...did it malfunction a second or third time during the same operating session? My experience was that the malfunction would occur after about 5 to 6 minutes of initial operating time. I might continue using it if it did keep working as designed...and didn't malfunction again after the first stoppage and a restart? I didn't think of testing that aspect of it...guess I'll give it a try...just don't have any interest in having to restart all of the locomotives every 5 to 7 minutes.

Thank you, Dave, and everyone else over at Lionel that is working on this!

I look forward to the firmware update and again, thank you for all the work.

JGL

As mentioned in my previous post, I wanted to test the Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller again, but in a different way. My hope was that it might operate as designed and intended, once it was restarted following the initial malfunction and shutdown, by leaving the power switch in the on position. So went through the normal startup procedure with three (3) LC+ locomotives being controlled. The function and engine select buttons could all be pushed at any time switching between the locomotives as well as operating the horns, and bells, etc. Then at just about the seven (7) minute mark, the malfunction occurred while switching engines and all of the LC + locomotives shutdown. I left the power switch to the remote on...went through the startup procedure again...and they ran fine as above, until around the seven (7) minute mark. Once again the malfunction occurred while pressing the engine select buttons and all of the LC+ locomotives again shutdown. Decided to run the test one more time...left the power switch on...went through the startup...and again was able to press any and all of the buttons until about the seven (7) minute mark where the malfunction and shutdown occurred once again.

Unfortunately not the results I was hoping for...so it's back to the shelf for the Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controller and will at this time, be using only the dedicated remotes.

Hoping that it really doesn't take Lionel LLC Engineering a full six months to come up with a fix for this problem...as there are now more than just me that are saying they have experienced the same malfunction as well!!!

I suspect Lionel LLC will be alerting their dealers about the bug in the code...additionally, their updated shipping schedule shows more of the Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controllers are due to arrive in August 2017.

Not sure if Lionel LLC is going to temporarily suspend sales of the defective Universal LC/LC+ Remote Controllers until a fix is found? Doing so, in my opinion, would give them some added incentive to making an update available sooner...rather than later!

PPDMI, or others that are experiencing this issue, I have some questions or things to to test out just out of curiosity.  I have all my engines compatible with the remote in storage right now so can't check it out on my own right now.  

With the test above, where the remote must be reset at about the 7 minute mark, is this only when you make no adjustments at all over that time, or will it happen even when changing speed and such on the first engine throughout the time, then try to switch engines?  

Also, if you switch back and forth through the engines, say every minute, does the problem still happen?  Like if every 60 seconds you switch to the next engine and keep rotating through them?  Or is it only if you don't switch engines over the whole time?  

Lastly, if you do not switch engines, say only running one engine, is there any problem?

Some random thoughts:

Seven minutes is a weird number.  It doesn't matter for the end users, but I think I have an idea how it is that the fault happens at 7 minutes.  At first glance it doesn't seem to be an amount of time that neatly breaks down into one of the number limits a micro-processor would have.  After some thought, though, it does roughly break down, if the processor's clock, for some reason, is counting in tenth's of a microsecond.  That is if once every 1/10,000,000 of a second the clock is advanced a step.  If the clock is stored in an unsigned long integer format, that type of number can get to 4,294,967,295 before it rolls over to zero.  That breaks down to roughly 7 minutes and 9.5 seconds of  .1 microsecond counts.  So, not that it matters for folks that are having problems, but my theory on the cause of the problem is that the clock is rolling over to zero, and when it does so the remote thinks it has been reset.  Sort of like the infamous Y2K bug with two digit years in dates.  

JGL