HELP !! .... I Need MTH Expertise

I recently purchased 5 MTH trains along with a AIU and a WIU.  All of the trains are running rather well on my small test track (it's my source to test and run trains while my layout is being built) except my NS OCS F-7 Train.  When I was testing and familiarizing with the train I noticed that the trains' Ditch lights only operate in the Reverse direction.  I accessed the menu on the remote and turned the ditch lights off, on, on Auto and on FLS mode.  Nothing has changed, it still lights up and blinks only in reverse mode.  Additionally, I purchased a new WIU and the premier MTH Wifi App and when I tested the NS OCS Train, it runs in opposite directions of the direction button (example: Reverse direction in Forward, Forward in Reverse direction), and the Ditch lights will operate only in Reverse direction also.  I checked my track connection, cleaned the track again, checked the wiring connections, I'm stumped for the moment.  I Need some MTH expertise.  I'm fine with Lionel Legacy, I'm still at the novice level with MTH.  Your Help will definitely be appreciated.   MARSHELANGELO

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

Original Post

How does the headlight react? If Rule 17 lighting applies, the headlight should get brighter when forward motion starts. 

When the engine is first powered on what direction does it travel in when you scroll up speed on the thumb wheel before ever touching the direction button?

H1000

The train travels from right to left in the forward direction before touching the direction button.  The # should be 20-20557-1, I'm at work now so I can't be absolutely sure.  I believe when I was running it the headlights were bright, they were definitely on, and come to think of it, in reverse the light goes off.

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

2 more things come to mind. Always try the menu, control, ditch lights, on with the remote. Just incase they were shut off like after using the engine in a helper mode. Resetting the engine usually does that. Yes, the PS3 LED ditch lights only come on with the engine moving.

Some MTH ditch lights (and other lights) are supplied power thru springs that make contact when the shell is tightened down. I have seen these springs out of place, both from the factory, and from users removing the shell and not taking care when putting the shell back on. I've even had a cracked spring holder bracket.

Another thing if you're inside, is to take small DC voltage ( under 3 volts?) and test the LED lights directly. I have a holder that I keep on my bench that usually has two AA batteries that have been inside a remote and are heading for the garbage. If they have any volts left, I put them in this homemade tester. No sense in going nuts searching, if the lights don't work directly.

 

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

Engineer Joe, the engine was bought last year for Christmas and it has had limited usage because my layout is being built.  It's actually in the embryo stage.  At most maybe a half hour of usage.  While running the train for about 10 minutes, somehow I pressed a button on the remote and the Ditch lights haven't worked properly for about a month now.  The shell has never been removed.

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

Last night while learning how to use the Wifi App, I did utilize the remote and pressed the Menu-Control-Ditch lights window and attempted to use the 4 options available via the corresponding soft keys.  I then pressed the scroll wheel as per instructions from the DCS manual and nothing happened when I ran the train.  The Ditch lights only operated while going backwards.  Perhaps I'll look a little closer at Rule 17 lighting to see if that helps.

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

Greg,

It sounds as if the motors are reverse-wired, i.e., board connection for front motor wired to rear motor and vice-versa.

That would account for the engine's directions to be reversed and the dish lights only to be on when the engine is moving backwards.

Desoldering wires on both motors and re-soldering to the other motor should correct the problem. Observe wire colors when swapping wires.

Barry

 

DCS Ambassador & author of The DCS Companion series of books

Train-Ca-Teers - All For O and O For All!

 

Thanks Barry, that's sounds like I'm heading in the right direction, but the train only ran backwards when I used the WiFi App, when I used the handheld remote it ran in (supposedly) the right direction but the results were the same with the Ditch lights.  I even physically flipped the train around when using the Wifi App and it stayed constant in its backwards operation.  But thanks, that answer sounds logical so far.

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

I mis-read the post again. I thought being a NS engine, it had rear ditch lights. So they would go on in reverse and you just weren't getting the front ones to work.

This engine only has front ditch lights

https://mthtrains.com/20-20557-1

If the forward or front ditch lights go on when in reverse, then we have an issue. Now, reading your latest post, I am really confused. I have never had an engine's lights go on differently using the app and the remote.

 An easy way to see if it's a board issue or just wiring mistake, is to put small DC voltage to the motors. If you put the batteries+ onto the yellow wire and the engine goes in reverse, then you need to reverse the wires.

 If it's the opposite reaction, then you need to look at the board's schematic, and see if the yellow and white wires for the motor are reversed at the board.

If still not the problem, then you could either reverse the wires anyways, or look at swapping out the sound file as something would be wrong with the programming. That would be a new one for me!

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

marshelangelo posted:

Engineer Joe, the engine was bought last year for Christmas and it has had limited usage because my layout is being built.  It's actually in the embryo stage.  At most maybe a half hour of usage.  While running the train for about 10 minutes, somehow I pressed a button on the remote and the Ditch lights haven't worked properly for about a month now.  The shell has never been removed.

This statement confuses the heck out of me on what's really going on here?

If they used to work correctly, how could the wires be reversed?

Somehow, if they were working correctly, the engine has lost what direction is forward???

I have seen the engine lose lights. I never saw one get forward mixed up. I have had them get locked in one direction and scrambled... even lost in DCS land.... missing remote addresses, worked one day and not the next,....etc., etc., etc.

so nothing would surprise me here.

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

The engine was bought brand new, last year at Trainland in NY.  Let me try and simplify this problem as best as I can. The Ditch lights operate only in reverse direction whether I use the remote or the DCS WiFi and app. When I use the DCS WiFi exclusively is when it becomes confused on FORWARD AND REVERSE. 

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

I am leaning towards the software. Sometimes, when you run consists of mixed PS2 and PS3 engines, something can happen and one gets scrambled. I thought it may have been fixed as it stopped happening here. I did change my habits and won't run a PS2 engine without first charging the battery. Some engines sit here for months without being used. So I had to rule out what might cause the issue.

 I had a brand new PS3 engine get scrambled and I had to do a factory reset to clear it. I blamed it on the software. I then had another BN scrambled engine right out of the box and again was cured with a factory reset. Both those happened about a year ago and I've been fine since. So maybe it was engines made around the last year or two? There were a rash of them out of the box locked in direction or neutral I thought I had read about here from others last year.

 Because it stopped happening I first blamed it on the older DCS release by nature, without pinning it down. The brand new engine that was locked made me think it was a software in the engine problem.

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

marshelangelo posted:

The engine was bought brand new, last year at Trainland in NY.  Let me try and simplify this problem as best as I can. The Ditch lights operate only in reverse direction whether I use the remote or the DCS WiFi and app. When I use the DCS WiFi exclusively is when it becomes confused on FORWARD AND REVERSE. 

Did you run this engine in a consist right before this occurred?

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

marshelangelo posted:

The engine was bought brand new, last year at Trainland in NY.  Let me try and simplify this problem as best as I can. The Ditch lights operate only in reverse direction whether I use the remote or the DCS WiFi and app. When I use the DCS WiFi exclusively is when it becomes confused on FORWARD AND REVERSE. 

My vote is the motors are wired backwards. You can switch the wire polarity at the motor or switch the yellow and white wire around at the 8 pin connector if you are good at taking them apart.

Simple test. Start the loco in conventional mode. It should start up in neutral without ditch lights and headlight at low brightness, cycle the power once, the headlight will get brighter, the ditch lights will turn on and the engine will begin to move forward. Cycle the power two more time and the ditch lights and headlight should turn off and the engine will move backwards.

H1000

I’m grasping for straws here, when I downloaded the new Premier DCS App, my IPad strength was below 50%, more like 30%.  I made a mental note to use the IPad next time at max strength. I was thinking maybe the software wasn’t acting in peak performance because of the low battery strength.  ???

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

marshelangelo posted:

I’m grasping for straws here, when I downloaded the new Premier DCS App, my IPad strength was below 50%, more like 30%.  I made a mental note to use the IPad next time at max strength. I was thinking maybe the software wasn’t acting in peak performance because of the low battery strength.  ???

I wouldn't think that has anything to do with it.

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

I’ll let y’all know what happened when I perform a reset from the handheld device Friday nite. Thank y’all for assistance but feel free to reignite this post if y’all come up with an answer. - MARSHELANGELO

 

 

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

DCS 5.0 had some bugs. Not sure that has anything to do with this, but it might.

Other problems will occur if you stay with 5.0 in the remote and a later version in the TIU.

I would also perform a factory reset of the engine with a transformer having bell and whistle buttons.

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

First of all if this is new DO Not start unsoldering wires from the motor unless your an expert at electronic work and soldering.  In either case I am not sure that is your issue.

Using the remote and TIU update to 6.10.  You need this for the Wifi anyway.

Once update is done.  Load engine into DCS and do a factory reset.  Once this is complete.  Reload and try to run it. G

MTH Authorized Service Center

Authorized ERR Dealer

Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

Hey G, from one G to another G, thanks, I picked up a train today at Trainworld and talked to the technician at the shop and he recommended sending it back to MTH.  I was gonna prepare it for shipping but you’re advise sounds worthy of an attempt.  I got nothing to lose and knowledge to gain.  Like I said earlier, the handheld say 5.0 and being new to MTH, I assumed I wasn’t that far off.  I’ll go to the MTH site and update the 6.10 and follow your advise. Thanks again, I let you know how it turns out. - MARSHELANGELO 

GREG

TCA 15-71035

U.S. ARMY RETIRED PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER

COMPUTER/NETWORK TECHNICIAN

CEO, COO and any other set of O's @ MARSHELANGELO'S UNDERGROUND MODEL RAILROAD

 

Add Reply

Likes (1)
Alan Mancus
The DCS Forum is sponsored by


OGR Publishing, Inc. PO Box 218, Hilliard, OH 43026 330-757-3020
www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
×