Help with GRJ's Chuff Generator/Super Chuffer

Based on how the chuff generator works, my guess is one of two things...

Could the sensor be too close or too far away? This might make it's readings of the tach tape unreliable.

The other thing it could be, is if the tach tape has an uneven white or black bar where it wraps back around to the end. That might throw off the counting of the steps.

That said GRJ will probably be more help, but just throwing a few ideas out there.

That's certainly odd Chris.  It's apparent that the Chuff-Generator isn't actually seeing extra stripes because the LED only flashes when it should.

From your description, this sounds like all was well until you moved, perhaps something got shook loose in the trip?  Did you do a good physical inspection?

Ooh, here's a thought...

Is the original chuff switch still there somewhere? It's hard to tell what electronics are in it from the video. I'm wondering if its flapping about, or maybe the pad for the chuff signal is shorting to ground intermittently on something?

It was doing it back in Oregon as well. I mentioned it in one of my posts after I got it back from Pat after the DC motor swap. You can hear it here. Scroll down just past half way to find the clips.

Lionel Chessie T-1 6-18011 Mods | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

I had to tweak the mount a bit to get the tach sensor to read, the LED wasn't flashing at all. I did apply slight pressure in both directions to the mount to see if the chuffs improved, they did not. The LED stopped flashing when I did.

Thanks for the time John.

@rplst8 posted:

Ooh, here's a thought...

Is the original chuff switch still there somewhere? It's hard to tell what electronics are in it from the video. I'm wondering if its flapping about, or maybe the pad for the chuff signal is shorting to ground intermittently on something?

All of the old electronics were stripped out. Its just ERR and Johns electronics.

It does sound like something is injecting extra chuffs.

Im going to inspect the wiring. I dont believe I have a smashed wire. I have already double checked the ground screws and the front pickup screw. all of those are tight. Possibly a cold solder joint on the super chuffer? I'll check. STBY.

This was the only option for mounting the generator. There is absolutely no room to mount it to the motor. The bracket is plenty stiff,But then again it is a possibility.

One thing is key, make sure the ground to the Chuff-Generator is perfect.  I always run my C-G ground from the Super-Chuffer with the +5V and Chuff signal, that way I know it's as good as it can be.

OK, I found that the generator was a hair too close. I moved it away from the tach tape and it improved. Now, with out listening to the audio, (turned off)...The chuffs and the red LED are in sync. With the audio (on)...this is when I got the double chuffs.  To further complicate things, with the engine not moving (sitting idle) all is good. When I move the tender frame by hand I get chuffs. I was thinking this was a pickup issue, but both trucks are wired to the DC Commander and the Railsounds is connected to the DC Commander. I thought I had a cable issue, but wiggling the cable and plug doesn't cause any chuffs. As the engine speeds up, the cable moves causing the extra chuffs due to the drivers not being perfectly aligned. It wiggles a bit, especially on the rollers. Which in turn moves the tender frame causing the chuffs.

Does any of this make sense? Here's another video.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

One thing is key, make sure the ground to the Chuff-Generator is perfect.  I always run my C-G ground from the Super-Chuffer with the +5V and Chuff signal, that way I know it's as good as it can be.

I'll look, But I believe I wired it that way.

**Edit***

Yes, It is wired that way. All three wires from the C-G go to the S-C.

Here's a thought...I have the S-C and C-G wired in through the chassis pickups. The DC Commander and Railsounds is wired in through the tender pickups. Could this be the problem? My SP Daylight is wired the same way.

Do I need to have a common ground between the two? That's easy enough, I have extra wires in the cable. Just need to add one to the plug.

Yep, you most CERTAINLY need a common ground.  I never do an installation where there isn't a ground between the locomotive and tender unless it's an IR serial data link with no physical wiring between them.  The chuff signal to the DC Commander doesn't have a good reference to the Chuff-Generator, that's very likely the source of the issue.  Of course, with extra wires, I always share the tender rollers for added running reliability across switches, etc. as well.

While the power is important, electronics NEEDS a good ground reference, especially for signals.

Thanks John. Its been a while since I delt with 'trons, and it hit me like a ton of bricks after I retried getting it to work.

Thanks for the time. I'll give it a shot and report back.

The more grounds the better Chris, …….are those tender trucks the old LTI type that have the plastic bearings up inside?…..a copper strip wiper system would help here ……if you can, tie the locomotive frame to the tender frame, and the trucks,….don’t take anything for granted…..I’ve had ground plane issues bite me in the backside more than once …..now I tie everything possible and then some together……

Pat

Chris...we do not allow members to bump up their threads.  If you have new info that is useful, then by all means post it but don't bump up threads for the sake of doing so.  Thanks

@harmonyards posted:

The more grounds the better Chris, …….are those tender trucks the old LTI type that have the plastic bearings up inside?…..a copper strip wiper system would help here ……if you can, tie the locomotive frame to the tender frame, and the trucks,….don’t take anything for granted…..I’ve had ground plane issues bite me in the backside more than once …..now I tie everything possible and then some together……

Pat

Thanks for the heads up Pat. I'll take a look.

***EDIT***

Yes Pat, They are the LTI trucks with the plastic bearings, and they do have the ground wiper across the axles, on both trucks.

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Chris...we do not allow members to bump up their threads.  If you have new info that is useful, then by all means post it but don't bump up threads for the sake of doing so.  Thanks

Copy!

Success! I jumpered the engine and tender to share a common ground and it worked. Now I know...Thank you to GRJ and Pat for their insight. Not only do I need to fab up a ground for the CSS, I need to do it on my SP Daylight as well. Thank you to eveyone who chimed in.

Chris

Glad you beat it into submission.  Electronics 101, a signal has to have a good ground reference!