Help with values of 3RD Rail brass engines

As you probably know, a lot of eBay asking prices are way out of line.  Searching completed listings can give you some kind of idea for sold items (actual selling price) and non-sold items (reserve not met will show what the top actual bid was, and unsold "buy it now" items means any actual selling price is below the asked price).  

TM books put out a price guide over 10 years ago that had list prices for the early 3rd Rail stuff (as well as Weaver and Williams brass) but I don't know of a source of list prices for anything newer than that.

I have a bunch of 3rd Rail Pennsy locos that were bought on the secondary market and I'd say they averaged about 50% of original list.  I wish I was at the auction you attended!  I have bought some of the earliest locos (electronic e-units, QSI or no sound) for about 35% of original list.

Bob's prices reflect what I have paid for previously owned 3rd Rail. 1/3rd for non TMCC. 1/2 or less for TMCC w/o cruise, 50-60% for newer TMCC with cruise.

Pete

ebay COMPLETED auctions is the value today. 

put the items on ebay with a $99 starting value and the locos will sell for it's current value....it's that simple. 

AMCDave posted:

ebay COMPLETED auctions is the value today. 

put the items on ebay with a $99 starting value and the locos will sell for it's current value....it's that simple. 

I agree with the above having recently tried to get a handle on the value of a couple of 3rd Rail engines that I think are surplus to my requirements. These are not quite as old as the ones you mention, which might in fact make it more difficult to find comparable eBay sales. I would not go by what the dedicated train auctioneers like Stout realize because I've found they consistently tend to get less for 3 rail brass. 

A few 3rd Rail engines do command a premium; I have seen Anniversary Series models (especially the Big Boy) and the elusive gray boiler cab forward go for much more than their original MSRP. What you actually have on hand will clearly be relevant to estimating value before the models are put up for sale.

Not only 3rd Rail, but older Williams and Weaver, all without TMCC or DCS. The price I'm willing to pay has to include the $200+ it will cost to upgrade them electronically, plus either the effort or the cost of paying someone to do the upgrade.
Plus, of course, the older engines either don't have smoke (or the anemic older smoke units) or whistle steam or whatever. An upgrade to current expectations can be a big deal, if at all practicable. Having said that., since I don't use smoke, etc, I can get perfectly lovely engines for a relative bargain. Given their low prices it's less  daunting to go the full detailing upgrade effort, as seen by the current thread on upgrading a Williams Hudson.

Of course, what they originally cost has no real bearing on their current value (like big-dollar "Euro" automobiles at an auction - 7-year-old BMW's going for under 10K), so, as suggested, eBay "Completed" (check the "Asking" too, however, just to get an idea on expectations) is the best barometer. 

I don't know of a reference book on 3rd Rail production, but don't forget that they also make their items in 2-rail O, and there are some "brass" books around, catering to the 2-rail types, I think.

3rd Rail is seen as a "premium" line, but not all of us feel (from ownership experience) that way about them. This will affect prices among some shoppers.  Just a FWIW.

Oh, for many years Weaver offered a line of high-end brass steam locomotives (I have some) that were of a desirability and quality similar (sometimes better, at a bit less money) to 3rd Rail's. "Completed" prices on these may help, too. 

I've bought a number of 3rd Rail brass engines in the 10-15 year old range, and none of them have gone for more than 40% of the original MSRP, usually more in the 30% range.  This is just a sample of one...

3rd Rail is awesome. Do you have a B&LE Texas or a NYC L3b? The Texas almost never shows up, especially in B&LE. I also wouldn't mind getting the SF 2-10-4 someday. The last one on eBay had a BIN price of stupid and a fully smashed in pilot.

I have a Pennsy t-1 that I know is not really worth anything except a paperweight due to it not having TMCC. I have no run time on it except for testing when bought brand new. Funny, I remember when I bought it that 3rd rail would talk about low production #'s to keep up the value......yea right. Sorry to say the locos probably wont go for a lot on Ebay.

There's no reason you can't add TMCC to your T-1, I do a lot of 3rd Rail brass upgrades.  I also add fan driven smoke, etc.

I have a 3rd Rail PRR T1 that I converted to TMCC, cruise and Railsounds.  It is a fabulous locomotive.  The only tricky part is that the locomotive drawbar on this tender is connected to the shell and not to the frame.  Since I use the tender shell as my TMCC antenna, I made a new drawbar from a Plastruct I-beam.  A metal drawbar would short out the TMCC signal by touching the frame of the locomotive.

jini5 posted:

I have a Pennsy t-1 that I know is not really worth anything except a paperweight due to it not having TMCC. I have no run time on it except for testing when bought brand new. Funny, I remember when I bought it that 3rd rail would talk about low production #'s to keep up the value......yea right. Sorry to say the locos probably wont go for a lot on Ebay.

 Us few conventional only runners LOVE the fact they are worth only paperweight money. My 3rd Rail T-1 is one of my favorites.....along with my Lionel conventional Shay I got cheap........bring them on!!!

"Us few conventional only runners LOVE the fact they are worth only paperweight money."

So do those of us that do our own TMCC conversions!

I bought a used 3rd rail Big Boy off the Bay a few years ago for $600 a great deal, for a steam locomotive with tons of detail. I'm surprised at the prices but then again my locomotive is a runner not a shelf queen.

A hardly "thank you!" to all who have responded.  Its sounds like the numbers I saw at the local auction were about the same as most here are experiencing - 30 to 40 percent of list price for older 3RD rail brass.

At this time, she is only gathering information.   If she wants me to help her sell them, I will list them on this forum first.

Thanks again for the information and your thoughts,

Don

Don,I am interested  in buying  older third rail steam. What does she have? Thanks John DellaGrotte  jdella45@yahoo.com 

I'll be watching for your posts Don, I could see myself picking up a couple of them.

I've bought a lot of older 3rd Rail locomotives.  Paid between 35-50% of original price.

It's really subjective on price for this stuff.  I love their stuff, can't get enough.

I'd be interested in what she may sell also.  E-mail in profile if she decides to sell.  Thank you.  Good luck and very kind of you to help her out with this.