Hidden Pass Junction RR < >

Alex,
Looking real good, and great progress. Are you planning a hatch to access the areas closer to the wall or are you just figuring you can climb up on top of the layout if necessary?

Your benchwork is very nicely executed: it'll suport a couple of elephants at least.

I used Westcott's "Building Model Railroad Bencwork" as a guide when I did mine, and I believe he had open grid down to a science.

I appreceate your background painting as well: a capital job through and through,Geino!

Bruce

Hmmm...obviously not modeling Missouri...no trees on them thar hills.

Benchwork and backdrop look very nice. I like substantial bench work...makes you confident that the wood will not "sag" over years and that it will support the weight of the scenery and track.

It looks like that could be a long reach in some places, so I am sure you have something figured out to address that...access hatch, small child that will crawl out and rerail your cars, a system of overhead rails, cable and a harness so you can fly over the layout...something like that last one would be really cool.

Stout! Fiirst class work.

Alex,

I think your walls came out fine. If worried about it maybe you could add some haziness to simulate distance. Don't know how to go about it though.

Aex

Your benchwork is just fine and so is your backdrop artwork. You did a very credible job with the backdrop.Dont forget to drill the holes in the framework so you can route the wires through the frame and let it support the wiring.

Your leg design is very interesting. I dont think any of us consider how the forces are distributed when supporting the layout and attaching the legs.

How high are you making the benchwork?

Looking forward to your progress.

Greg:
” Are you planning a hatch to access the areas closer to the wall or are you just figuring you can climb up on top of the layout if necessary?”

There will indeed be access hatches. They will be the kind that lift up and will be supported by telescoping tubes so I can lift them up and swing them out of the way as necessary. But I will also climb on top for track laying, etc.

Bruce:
” I appreceate your background painting as well…”

That’s something I have a lot to learn, and my wife will be helping as well. One thing I found: Home Depot sells 8-oz containers of ANY Behr mix paint they offer (over 4000) for $2.94. They call them Interior/Exterior Paint Testers, and they are great for this.

Tony:
” Hmmm...obviously not modeling Missouri...no trees on them thar hills.”

That is correct; mostly west. For now, the railroad is the UPSF, or Union Pacific - Santa Fe merger, which exists is my fantasy world.

Owen:
” add some haziness to simulate distance…”

Precisely what my wife and I have been pondering. I tried spraying it lightly with grey primer paint, but that didn’t work. I wonder if there is some sort of opaque coating, almost clear, as may be used to protect painting drawings, etc., and that doesn’t smell too strong.

Rich:
instead of drilling holes through the bench work.

I may use those as well. The portion that you see above, which is about 1/6 of the layout, already has 140 Ø3/4” holes! What a pile of shavings!

Thank you all for your ideas and comments. I will keep posting progress.

Alex

I've posted this before but . . . Yet another way to hang wires. The backdrop looks terrific. And I can see some trees! Russ

Alex,

Very nice background, alot of work. It looks good. I noticed you standing in the benchwork and it comes up to your chest.
What are your reasons for this? I ve have never read any books on layout design and am curious to what the concept is.

Thank you for the advice you ve giving me on my layout.

Hey Patrick!

(Background painting is quite a learning process - thanks!)

The top of the frame is 47”, and when I add the 5/8” plywood and 1/2" QuietBrace, it will be just over 48”. I have tried different heights, starting at 36” and up to 44” which was my last layout – my first O-Gauge. (BTW, I am 5’11”)

The reason is to make it easier to get under it. My back is not what it used to be, and I like to be able to sit on a short stool to do wiring without banging my head. (I have no hair left on top of my head to tell me that a 1x4 or 2x4 is in close proximity ) Also, the perspective for viewing the details is better in most cases. But since you cannot see the whole layout or get a birds-eye view, I will have a couple of platforms, about one foot high, from which to see the layout.

The main level will be 48”, the second level 57” and the “EL” train will be at 66”. My wife says that while standing on the floor, the “EL” train will appear to her as the real thing – she will have to look up to it. There is a lower level up front that will be 25” high, but that will be a gorge for my long trestle. I should finish this portion tonight or tomorrow night, depending on what time I get home from work, and I’ll post some pictures. BTW, I got that idea from you! (Hope you don’t mind.)



Thanks!!
Alex

I am the same height. I like the height in some areas, But what has me a little disappointed is my front section is mostly 44" where i was going to put the town but i couldnt see past the first row of buildings .
When i work my way around to it I am going to lower the town section back down to 32"(the laterials are there luckily).

Since your at this point ,just wanted to point out you might want some low and high sections.

I get the back thing. LOL. benchwork Looks great!!

Made just a bit of progress the last two nights: the area where the gorge and trestle will go.



To give you an idea of how much (little) I have done so far, here is the layout (lower level only) with the completed portion of the frame in red lines.



But it is progress . . . a little eadch day . . .

Thanks for looking!

Alex

Alex,

Keep at it; it's looking great!

I do try to do something everyday, and the weekends are great!

With the new frame just completed this weekend, I am about 40% of the overall frame. It is going along well, and although I was planning on adding some plywood and QuietBrace to the partially finished frame, I feel like completing all of the frame and then going to the plywood stage.

Here is a picture of part of the finished are as seen standing on the floor.



This is what it looks like from a platform 18” above floor level, as my Control Center will be. I will be able to see most of the part shown, and if I look to the left, I will be able to see all of the other (60%) portion.



Thanks for looking!

Alex

Love it!! Its gonna be great.!!

Wow, very nice work and progress!

wish I lived closer..

" wish I lived closer.."
Well, when you come to St. Louis next time, just send me an email and we'll get together!

Made some more progress last weekend. I finished the third, largest, and last section of the framing for the lower level, and started painting some buildings (more time consuming that mountains!).

As seen from looking south west, standing on the floor.


Birdseye view (standing on 18” high platform) looking south east.


What you see under the frame are the two carts I had built to move the drywall and other construction material around while I was finishing the basement. Now I use them to store the train stuff. I can easily roll them out when I need t get a box or work under the layout, and roll them back in when done. We will keep them to store boxes and other things, and will ‘hide’ them with a curtain or something when they are under the layout.

Carts out:


Carts back under:


I'll post a few more details tonight.

Thanks for your comments and looking.

Alex

Wow! This is great! Your benchwork construction is nothing short of perfect! I already find myself anxious to see what you've done next. I really like what you done with the storage carts on the casters. My guys always say if there's a way to use more space then Ill find it. Well those storage carts are right up my alley. Anyway.... looking fantastic. Please keep us posted.

The storage cart idea is very clever. Good stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by quick:
The storage cart idea is very clever. Good stuff.

I like that idea too

Watching the construction of your layout is part of a learning experience for me as I have not started mine yet.
The consideration for the bald head and stiff back are well noted because I also share those traits.

I really like your idea of resting everything on the top of the support post instead of hanging on the side.
Thank you for taking the time to show your progress.

Yes, the carts are working even better than we expected.

Glad to share what I am doing.

I finally made one of the several hatches I will need. This one is 14 x 18 inches, and although it is OK, the next one will be 14 x 20 inches. I used a Ø1” closet rod that I had, and it works well. Also, I will space the two supports further apart, perhaps 3 inches instead of just 1-1/2 for better stability. As they are they hold the hatch fine, but when raising it and lowering, it vibrates somewhat, and I hope further apart spacing will help.

The pictures should show what I did, but if you have any questions, p-lease let me know – I also have drawings.

The hatch lowered, in place.


The hatch raised and turned or swung.


Birds-eye view.


Underneath – hatch lowered.


Support detail.


Support with hatch raised.


Will have more pictures tomorrow.

Thx for looking.

Alex

I like the way you think.

I have seen layouts with access holes and most often they just hide the hole with a mountain range or some industrial buildings in front of it.
Your idea is rather unique and very effective.

Tom *, Ray – Thanks!

For the second hatch, I added an additional, third support and consequently increased the distance the tube is supported. This not necessary, and I will cut off the added third support. It protrudes another 3” under the layout, and doesn’t really make it better. Two supports as for first hatch works just fine.

The second hatch under the yellow building. The first one is marked with a blue ‘X”, as I do not want to test its strength when working on top.


The second hatch raised. The tube is shorter than I used for the first hatch, and it is better; I can work on the top of the hatch itself this way.


Another view of the hatch raised.


Now I am working on the first graded track, 0 to 9” at 2% or slightly less. Be back soon. . .

Alex

(*) Tom, not long ago you asked about QuietBrace. That is what I am using, and you can see some of the double track roadbed I have cut so far.

Alex, I did some Temple QB searching Friday to no avail. So I just got another load of Homosote. Maybe because we are so close to the Homosote mfg, facilities in Mid Jersey there maybe a favorable freight cost precluding Texas based Temple-Inland, duno.

Tom,
Even though more expensive, I probably would have used Homasote if I had found it around here since it is what I used for years; but the QuietBrace is working fine.

One thing I am doing differently is not using another track bed over the QB. I had always used cork track bed over Homasote over plywood for my HO layouts, but in retrospect, I can't imagine that those trains really needed that much sound-deadening measures!

The O-Gauge layout I had for a couple of years (until last year) was Fastrack over QB, over plywood. I thought that the noise was minimal and I did not mind it at all. On the few occasions when I ran the trains with no engine sounds, it reminded me of the HO trains - really quiet - and I did not like it as much.

So this time it will be the Atlas track over QB over plywood. I will still cover most of the layout with QB, even if there are no tracks, as it is easier to drive small nails, ‘plant’ trees, carve grooves, etc., in it than it is in plywood; same as I used to do with Homasote.

Alex

.

...Alex, good work. But man you must be thin! Those look pretty small.
Ya sure they will be big enough for you?

Hey Jeff,

The first hatch was 14" x 18" and although I could turn around easily when standing on a stool 10" or 16" high, it was difficult when standing on the floor. So I made the second hatch 14" x 20" and did the trick.
(BTW, I am 5'11" and 180 lb.)

I am continuing with the 5/8" plywood top on the first level so I can get started on the supports for the second level. The 5/8" plywood is working fine, and it should please those who think that 3/4" is too much as well as those who prefer something heavier than 3/8" or 1/2"

Be back soon -

Thx!

Alex

The hatches are genius!

Great Idea Alex,

how about Dorthy and Toto on the lift ?

Looks great.

Thank you Jeff! They do the trick in some areas.

Patrick: And I will have a yellow road leading to the basement!

Progress Report -

Added some plywood, cut first of two graded track spacers, cut QuietBrace for first curved graded track and a straight section, started city backdrop –

Plywood is almost done:





Grade spacers in 1/8” increments to be place every 6” under the QuietBrace (QB). That’s 1/4"/foot or about a 2% grade. Going up to 9” high.



Cut one sheet of QB for the first graded curve and some straight sections. Drew lines on the QB for the inner and outer diameter cuts as well as the inner and outer track centerlines. Even though I am using sectional track here, I prefer to have the centerline as a double-check.



Testing the spacers.





The double main.



Trying my hand at painting buildings for a city. This is a lot harder than mountains!






Be back soon, and thank you for looking.

Alex

Alex, I can't tell you how impressed I am with your ability to pre plan and execute and have it shape up as nicely as your layout has done so far. I can't imagine painting buildings that far a head in the right place and the proper elevation. Super job!

Looking real good Alex. I like the grade. Please keep us posted.

Greg: Planning is much easier now with RR-Track and CAD. I still have some of my old (25-40 years old) HO layout plans drawn on the drawings board – paper and pencil and lots of eraser for editing - that was a challenge. What I find now is that we are more likely to make more changes, since it is so easy. I am on the 25th iteration of the track!

I start out with just the track; upper and lower levels separate, design the frame for them, and then superimpose the frame on an image of the RR-Track rendition. For example, here is an image of just the track, color coded, and then the same image with the CAD drawn frame on it:





Thanks, bmac, I will do.

Alex

If you dont mind me saying again, Fantastic! You have so many different talents!

Alex I looked at your photos last night, I must say WOW,
awesome bench work and love the background. Just all around
beautiful layout room and pristine work. I wish you were
ahead of me so I could get ideas from you. Also love the
access panels.

JUST AWESOME

P.S. Now I see where you post so I will keep looking.

Thanks again Alex

Thank you, Patrick, Alex. It is because of the examples we have the privilege to see here on the forum, starting with your very own work, that we discover that we may be able to do things that we had not suspected. In other words, we attempt to imitate the works that we admire.

I’ll do the best I can. I do want to get the basic layout, track, and controls done as soon as possible so I that can run the trains. After that, I can take my time with the scenery and the other items that are not essential for the operation of the trains.

Thanks!

Alex

Progress is somewhat slow, but not for lack of trying. The way I designed the layout requires a lot of cut straight and curved track sections, and I am spending quite a bit of time with the cutoff wheel and the file. Anyway, here are some pictures.

Some of the track at Etieca Valley as seen when standing on an 18” platform.









Track that will connect the West and East sides.





City Backdrop: I paint some every week end, but I find this somewhat difficult.



This portion of track will be supported by a wooden trestle. It will span nine feet, with a 30” bridge under the straight track section. I will build the trestle from scratch and will post pictures soon.



Track gauges, as posted by Don (DMASSO). These are great and really help lay track easily and accurately. I made one for three tracks and two for two tracks, as shown, and have been using them with great results.



To join Ross Custom switches to the Atlas track, I simply cutoff one end of the standard Atlas track joiner so it is flush instead of having the protruding lower end. This allows the joiner to engage more of the RCS rail.



Back soon, and thank you for looking!

Alex

Alex, Congratulations on your progress, this track is pretty cool here in Brazil, and the size of your model is fantastic!

Thanks for the photos,

Leandro ...

Alex, great layout. Your work ethics and skills are admirable. Glad you are using my track spacer gauge idea. Enjoy.

Dear Alex

Thank you so much for sharing your progress. What an astonishing layout!

Yours and Patrick's engineering skills are inspirational--and intimidating--to me.

I love your long, very gently graduated elevation. Your trains are going to look marvelous running on your layout.

Thanks again for sharing.

--Jaddie

That's one heck of a nice job you did. You say you can't paint? I think you can paint. Beautiful background. You can come over and do one for me.

Alex, fantastic benchwork by a master craftsman. This benchwork would be a great article in the OGR magazine.

Questions on the track gauges, what type blade did you use, and center rail spacing. I've been searching for Don's posting without any luck.

Thanks.

Jack

Here is the original post. http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve...072920807#8072920807

Thanks for the quick response Don, I will be starting the benchwork shortly using Alex's design & your gauge for the trackwork.

Jack

Your welcome Dr. Jack. I just made another pair like Alex's design but five inch on center to have another choice.

Jack,

As follow up to Don's reply -
I used a 60-tooth, thin kerf Freud blade (10" table saw). The slots are a slip-fit (snug) on the rails, so you have to get the distances just right. You can use an 1/8" kerf blade, I imagine, and have a little looser fit, and it wouldn't hurt.

I used 4-1/2" center distance since that is my curve spacings (Ø108-Ø99), but you can make your gauges to fit your spacing, as Don mentioned above.

Alex

Alex, thanks for the blade sizes, I was at sears yesterday checking on blades, big assortment to choose from, your answer is a big help, as is your benchwork leg design. I know sheetrock screws can break under stress and in my book your method is the way to go. Thanks again.

Jack

It has been a while since my last update, but I have been making some progress. Besides track laying, I also upgraded my DCS TIU’s to the latest software, and even ran some trains! I had a new MTH F3 ABA Santa Fe and passenger car set, and also an MTH Big Boy that I had received for my birthday and Christmas and had never run. They are fantastic!

Anyway, I am about done with the lower level track; just need to do one section that will not take long. Here are some pictures that you may enjoy.

My wife and my granddaughter just before I started laying track at this end.



I found that the RR-Track layouts are very precise and if the tracks are cut and laid accurately, they will match the RR-Track perfectly. One of the tricks is to establish the proper radius for the curves. Even when using sectional track as I am using, if the centers are not established, the tracks can be off considerably. Here are some examples from this last track laying session.

My granddaughter took this picture standing on a stool while I was checking some curves.



Other centers:





Trying my hand at painting clouds of the stormy variety.



The tracks that connects the two main areas.



Bird’s Eye views







My now favorite way of connecting the wires to the track (extremely easy to do)


Overall at Eye Level



I’ll be back soon with more pictures. Thank you for looking!

Alex

Coming along very well. Great job.

Getting excited ? Really looks great Alex.

Alex,

Looks great so far! Keep the updates coming!

I was wondering how you like your decision to go with the ross switches and the Atlas track. I just started ordering Atlas track, and am still up in the air over the switches. I guess the only reason not to use Ross, would be because the ties look so much larger than on the Atlas track? What were your thoughts on that?

Also you posted above "My now favorite way of connecting wires to track." What exactly are you doing there?

Keep up the great work!

Zett,

No problem installing or mating the Ross switches with the Atlas track or switches. Here are some examples using plastic rail joiners and also the regular Atlas joiners. When using the latter, I cut off about 1/8” from one end of the joiner with the cut off wheel because the exposed Ross switch rails are short. But the joiners fit just perfectly of the Ross rails.





My concern is that none the DZ machines have worked as I would expect – at least not yet. I test every Atlas and Ross switch before installing them, and so far none of the over 30 Atlas switches I have used so far has malfunctioned.

But not a single one of the eight Ross switches I have used up to now (all curved, BTW) has worked as I think they should. The switches themselves (without the DZ machines) are fine – they operate freely. But the machine does not throw all the way consistently even when not on the switch! That is, instead of traveling fully (from one end of the crescent shaped slot to the other) they are shy about 1/16 to 1/8 inch. I have tried 14v and 20v, and the result is the same. I have also added two or three drops of fine oil as has been recommended, but that has not helped so far.

As far as my favorite way of connecting the wires to the rails, for the full story look at this thread:"Screw It!" – but you can get the idea with these three pictures:







After trying several #0 sheet metal screws, (Button Socket Head, Slotted Pan Head, and Phillips Pan Head) I have settled on the #0 x 1/4" Pan Head Phillips Sheet Metal Screw, Black Oxide.

Thank you for looking.

Patrick. Am I excited yet? You got that right! When I finally ran a train last week, even though it was only over 40 or 50 feet of track, I was beyond myself. Thanks!

Alex

Here is my wiring scheme (track power only) as of now – it will change!
• Two Z4000’s to two TIU’s. (12 AWG wires. Two about 100-ft, two about 400-ft)
• TIU’s fixed and variable inputs jumpered to provide four output channel s.
• Four output channels from each TIU to four terminal blocks for a total of eight terminal blocks. (14 AWG wires, each about 20-ft long) Some of these will be relay controlled to cut power off to selected track blocks.
• Eight terminal blocks power up to six track blocks. (16 AWG wires, each about 12-ft long)

The wiring diagram:




The track layout



Alex

Alex, your talents are limitless. Our you placing the TIUs and the Z1 and Z2 in the locations on the diagram or will they be all together?

Don,

I mounted (late last night) the TIU's pretty close to where they are shown in the wiring diagram. Looking at the RR-Track layout, TIU No. 1 is just under the small bridge over the lake above the "Madera Heights" name, and TIU No. 2 just to the right of the word "Aisle" on the right of "Villa de Rocas".

The two Z4000's will be where [CONTROLS] is, at the bottom of the diagram, to the left of "Etieca Valley".

I hope to install a couple of terminal blocks tonight, but I am making these with terminal strips that I had from previous HO layouts and is taking a little time. Also, I can find only two of the magic bulbs of the 10 I bought three years ago, so I just had to order some more. (Well, at least I won't be moving again and misplacing things.)

And Thanks again.


Alex

Thank you.

It has been a while since I update my progress, but believe me – I have been working on my layout!

I worked on the DCS system for a few days, laid more track, and then started on the trestle. Since I could not find the type of prebuilt bents I wanted, I decided to go from scratch. I downloaded a lot of information on full-scale as well as model trestle design, and came up with what I wanted.

Instead of buying all the ‘lumber’ already to size, I cut my own 1/4-inch square pieces from 6-inch wide x 24-inch and 36-inch long poplar stock from HD and Lowe’s. The smaller stuff is Midwest basswood that I bought from Tower Hobbies.

The Judy Jane Trestle at Etieca Gorge over Lake Rowena is 10-feet 4-inches long (496’ FS), its average height over the lake is 25-7/8 inches and it is on a 2% grade. It supports the dual-main track, and will consist of 29 bents ranging in height from 4-13/16 to 19-9/16 inches. Each bent has 10, 1/4-inch square posts (12” square FS) of varying lengths, and a number of horizontal (sill) and diagonal (sway) bracing depending on height. The mud sills are 1/4 x 3/8-inch as I have grooved the piers 1/8-inch for better stability and alignment, so they will protrude 1/4-inch and appear to be 1/4-inch square.

The center portion of the bridge, over the lake, will not have bents that extend to the ground. Instead, those bents will be 6-1/4 inches long and rest upon heavier lumber.

After much deliberating and reading, I decided to make the sway braces out of 1/16 x 1/4-inch (basswood), as many full-scale trestles use this size (3” x 12”) lumber. Other lumber will be 1/8-inch square (6” x 6” FS) and 1/16 x 3/16-inch (3” x 9” FS). Altogether there will be around 2,000 sticks.

I have all the bents finished except I ran out of ‘lumber’ for the sway braces for the last 12 bents; the shorter ones. I will finish them this week. My wife Judy, after who I named the trestle, stained all the ‘sticks’ and has built a handful of bents. I’ll post specific details of construction soon.

Here are some pictures:
(Some of the bents in place but not glued yet as I have to finish the 'rock walls' first.)









Thank you for looking!

Alex

PS. The pink foam was an after thought (thanks, Patrick) and I ran out. Had only bought one 4x8' sheet to try it, liked it, and will continue using it. Will buy more tomorrow.

Looking good Alex.

Humm..........enough wire to fill a gutter ..........Maybe go look again at Ed R's "They said it could not be done" thread on the 2 rail side.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Tee:
Humm..........enough wire to fill a gutter ..........Maybe go look again at Ed R's "They said it could not be done" thread on the 2 rail side.

...I like Rich's idea a lot better, but the gutter is hidden by the velcro skirt, and the wire is very accessible. The described layout was two-rail with a very sophisticated electrical command and control system started before the invention of DCC in HO. The control room had an electronic wall displaying the position of every train and every turnout on a 2400 sq. ft. layout. Lots of wire, and many members with very sophisticated computer and electronic backgrounds. The gutter was great, because you could modify a 70' wire by just reaching into the gutter, and locating and servicing that individual wire.

Alex, your layout is exceptional. Thanks for the photos!

Cordially,

Dennis

Alex,

This is looking great!

I really like your trestle bents, you did a super nice job.

Don, Dennis, Rich -

Thanks! Fun to post some of the work.

Had I found the type of trestle bents I wanted, I would have bought them instead of building them from scratch. Is not that they are not fun to build; they are. But they do take a lot of time.

The calculation of the bent heights, and the height of the piers and bases, combined with the 2% grade, and their location on a curve, was somewhat challenging. But once I had the XL spreadsheet done, it was a matter of cutting sticks and spacers to match the calculated heights; and measuring the spacing between the inner and outer bent cap ends for proper location.

Alex

Alex,

Looks awesome!

I really like your benchwork leg design.

It looks like the main leg determines the height.

I have two questions:

1. Did you do anything special to level the benchwork?

2. After doing the construction do you think that 2x4 is necessary for all the benchwork, or would 1x4 be sufficient for all or part of the framing?

Looking forward to more pictures

quote:

Originally posted by StreamLiner01:
Alex,

Looks awesome!

I really like your benchwork leg design.

It looks like the main leg determines the height.

I have two questions:

1. Did you do anything special to level the benchwork?

2. After doing the construction do you think that 2x4 is necessary for all the benchwork, or would 1x4 be sufficient for all or part of the framing?

Looking forward to more pictures

Tom,

Thanks.

1. I leveled it as I built it using a 4-ft and a 3-ft level. I cut all the legs the same length, and then used shims as needed.

2. I had always used 1x4'x for the frame of my previous layouts, and they worked fine. I made the legs out of the 1x4's as well, in 'L' shape. I went with the 2x4's this time because the 1x4’s were (are) getting harder to find straight and are more expensive. I used over 100 2x4’s for the layout, which my wife and I hand-picked at Home Depot and had them delivered. (I don’t have a truck.) Going with 2x4’s saved over $100 and allowed me to use the frame pneumatic-nailer. I used a combination of 3-1/2” screws and nails, depending on the joint, and glued all of them as well.

Now that I have the 2x4 frame, I am really glad I went with it. Not only is it very sturdy (I climb on top of it to lay the track and it is A-OK solid and stable), but it does not require as many legs as the 1x4 frame. Also, when it comes to joining two sheets of plywood, I always make the joint or seam fall on a frame member. This is much easier to do when you have a 1-1/2” edge instead of just 3/4".

I will post more pictures soon, and do keep us posted on your progress as well.

Alex

You mentioned how the DZ 1000 switch machines do not always throw the points all the way. I am new to these and mine do the same thing. I have never read of anyone else mentioning this problem on any of the O gauge forums. Currently I have only one loop operationable and it has one switch with the points against the stock rail so I dont worry about it. But soon another loop will be going and it has several switches. I need to buy one more DZ 1000. Should I buy it or something else. Do other peoples DZ 1000 throw the points all the way consistantly? Also you really have to locate Caboose Industries ground throws accurately or they wont throw the points all the way on one side if your off a little.
Dennis San Fernando Valley CA.

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Rempel:
You mentioned how the DZ 1000 switch machines do not always throw the points all the way. I am new to these and mine do the same thing. I have never read of anyone else mentioning this problem on any of the O gauge forums. . . Dennis San Fernando Valley CA.

Dennis,
Yes, I still have the problem with the Ross switches. I posted this issue a couple of times and the suggestion has been to add a little oil to the DZ machine. I added the oil as indicated, but the problem persists.

NOT ONE OF MY RCS+DZ is working correctly - if by correctly we mean that the DZ machine throws fully each time. Again, the switches by themselves are free - no binding - AND the DZ machines exhibit the same problem by themselves. I have nine of the switches installed so far, have two of them wired so they will automatically throw (non-derail) and they simply do not throw fully most of the time. Sometimes the points throw fully even if the DZ machine does not, but they are not locked in place.

I don't want to start an RCS & DZ rant, but I always read how much better they are than the Atlas, for example. Yet, I have installed over 30 of the Atlas switches, and have not had any problems with any of them. Go figure!

Maybe someone will chime in?

Thanks for posting

Alex

Alex. Have you increase the voltage a bit? We have these at our club layout and have not had a problem. Our upper dog-bone is set up with two non derailing turnouts and they snap every time.

I will be having these on my layout which is still under construction. I just have not wired them as yet. Have you tried a bench test to experiment with the voltage?

quote:

Originally posted by DMASSO:
Alex. Have you increase the voltage a bit? . . . Have you tried a bench test to experiment with the voltage?

Hey, Don -
Yes. I bench-test every turnout before I add it to the layout. I use my KW's 14-v and 20-v for the test. Neither the 14-v nor the 20-v makes the DZ advance fully every time. With the 20-v, it looks as though occasionally they bounce back almost to mid point. I don't think that this is an optical illusion, but I have not taken the time to video tape it and then playing it back in slow motion. The Atlas turnouts work fine with 14 volts.

This has raised another issue that I had not faced before (with the HO Atlas turnouts - anyway): How do I know that the turnouts have actuated properly? With the Lionel Fastrack on my last layout, which was only about 7-ft x 20-ft, I could see the lanterns and knew whether they worked properly. (BTW, the Fastrack turnouts ALWAYS worked fine!)

What I am going to do is to place cameras over the areas that I cannot see from the control center. Some of these will be inside tunnels, and others just mounted on the wall and trained on the turnouts. This will be something else to work on AFTER I finish the track and wiring (so I can run trains other than point-to-point).

Thx!

Alex

Very enjoyable topic. Thanks,

As for the Ross switch problems, suggest you give Steve B at Ross a call. I've always found the folks at RCS very helpful.

Austin Bill

It has been a while since I updated, and that is because I have been busy building the trestle - remember? I named it the Judy Jane Trestle since my wife has really been helping me all along both finishing the basement, and now the layout.



More pictures here here: Judy Jane Trestle

Alex

Excellent job!

Peter

Thanks, Peter!

It was fun to build.

Now to continue with the track

Alex

quote:

Originally posted by Ingeniero No1
............................................................................

NOT ONE OF MY RCS+DZ is working correctly - if by correctly we mean that the DZ machine throws fully each time. Again, the switches by themselves are free - no binding - AND the DZ machines exhibit the same problem by themselves. I have nine of the switches installed so far, have two of them wired so they will automatically throw (non-derail) and they simply do not throw fully most of the time. Sometimes the points throw fully even if the DZ machine does not, but they are not locked in place.
................................................................................

Maybe someone will chime in?

Thanks for posting

Alex

Alex: I have both switch machines. My Atlas switches go back almost ten years. I've done an extensive upgrade with the Atlas 6924 relay boards and 6931 dwarf lights. This added the electric non-derail and power routing I needed to smooth out a lot of electrical holes in a small layout with a lot of switches installed back to back. The 6924 relay boards have also eliminated motor burn out which was common with the Atlas switch motors.

The DZ 1000 are a completely different beast, with a small motor and gear drive assembly. Atlas snap switch are what I term a linear motor with two coils that shuttle the throw mechanics. The DZ switch has a NO/NC Three pole switch that cuts the motor circuit once the throw bar reaches it's limit. There is no adjustment on this limit switch which may be part of the problem. I have quite a few of these switch motors installed on the modular club T module. They can be problematic as you have described. I oiled, tightened, and loosened the screws several times and am operating at a 18 volts AC. Still there are some glitches.

Note the green limit switch in the two throw positions. Most likely it is cutting out before the throw is complete. At least that is the way my switches seem to work. I very seldom ever see the manual throw bar on top of the switch all the way left/right.




My thought is send them back until you get one's that work properly.
Mike

Alex You have really put a lot of effort into showing this forum what it takes to put a top notched layout together. That's time you could have easily used to advance your project.
Much appreciated and Again
Mike.

Mike,
I just read your post, above. I did not suspect that the DZ1000's were like that at all! I thought that they were of the dual-coil/solenoid variety.

Now that I see your excellent, fine detail pictures, I will look a little further, and post what I find, which I expect to be the same as what you just said.

You also said, " I very seldom ever see the manual throw bar on top of the switch all the way left/right."

And do they work OK that way for you?


THANK YOU!!!!



Alex

quote:

Originally posted by Ingeniero No1:
Mike,
...............................................................................

You also said, " I very seldom ever see the manual throw bar on top of the switch all the way left/right."

And do they work OK that way for you?


THANK YOU!!!!

They do work, on occassion they will hang-up. Most of these switches are paired cross-overs, with two throws at once. That may effect performance. There are two throw buttons per switch set, one on either side of the module, along with a Lionel SC-2 control. Switches pictures are Ross 204 three-ways

Finish paint


Alex

Alex, that's one sweet trestle! I'm taking notes for when I do mine.
Steve C.

Mike,

I videotaped the DZ1000 (with bottom plate off)

With 14v: Sometimes it works OK, other times it just goes part way BUT the switch points advance fully. The gear and pinion still lock them in place somewhat, so I guess it should be OK.

With 18v: I had one that buzzed! It went back and forth several times before it settled.

Adjustment: You are correct; there really isn't adjustment to be made. BUT, the limit switch (LS) does have a little play, and I was able to stop the 'buzzing' or continuous actuation under 18v by rotating the LS fully in one direction and then tightening the screws.

Bounce: It definitely bounces halfway back in one direction. It advances fully, then bounces back half way. You can see this plainly when playing it back one frame at a time (0.033 seconds/frame).

The three turnouts I tried seemed to work better at 14v, but now I have to go back to the other eight and try them out.


Steve C:
Glad you liked the trestle, and let us know how you do with yours. It actually is easier than it looks; just some patience and be careful where you stick your fingers and brush with your elbows when close to complete


Alex

Alex,
Today was the first that I saw your postings. I am awestruck, Your benchwork, backdrop painting and popups are among the best ever offered here. I am amazed at the attention to detail on your trestle; just reading the process that you went through to ensure accuracy was inspiring. Having the space to build, the skills to accomplish what you are doing, AND the support of your Wife; you are truly blessed.

I can't wait wait for the next posting.

Oh, and thanks to you and Dom for the track gauge and wiring technique!

quote:

Alex, fantastic benchwork by a master craftsman. This benchwork would be a great article in the OGR magazine.

I can easily spot half a dozen very neat how-to articles for the magazine in this one thread alone, any time Alex is in the mood (or has the time) to do them. I'm easy to get hold of, and definitely will be following the progress of what is shaping up to be one dynamite layout.

Alex,

As a fellow Missourian, I gotta compliment you on the layout. Really coming along nicely, and done right. You must have the patience of a saint, or at least an aeronautical engineer!

Allan,
I will be emailing you shortly to review this further .

Rob,
Thank you, but a EE will have to do . Actually, I enjoy doing this type of work, and never look at what I have yet to do, but at what I have already done.

UPDATE
Since finishing the big trestle a few weeks ago, I have been building grades, building the upper level frame, laying and wiring track. All of the upper level track is in place, though not yet ‘screwed’ down. A lot of it is wired and tested, and only five blocks remain to be wired. So far everything runs great (I use DCS).

After the upper level is complete, as far as track and wiring goes, I will start on the “L” train. It will be a loop about 35 feet long and six to seven inches above the upper level. The single track girder bridge shown below, on top of short pieces of 2x4’s and next to the double-track Pratt Truss bridge, will be part of the “L” train. I made this bridge from scratch for my previous layout, and will have to shorten it by about 14 inches, but it will work fine.

Here are a few pictures I took just a few moments ago to share with you. Not great, and I will have better, more detailed pictures soon, but these will be OK for the time being to show some progress. I took all the pictures, except for the last two, while standing on a 17-inch high platform. I will have several such platforms for people to watch the trains. Hope you enjoy them!

East side frame underway.



West Side - grades.




Tracks connecting the East and West sides.



East Side (main side: has lower, upper and "L" levels)









This next picture taken while standing on the floor.



This is another picture taken from ‘ground level’. It is of the track sections that connect the East and West sides, and it is behind the stairwell. This is where I want to install cameras to monitor the turnouts.



And thanks for looking

Alex

Congratulations, Alex !!

It's always great to see your progress!!!

Leandro ...

Great job!

Peter

speechless

Have some more pictures to share with you. Some would precede the last pictures I posted chronologically, but I did not post them because I thought they may not be of interest. But maybe they would be . . .

Laying out the second graded track





Some construction details of the East side, where the lower, upper and “L” levels will be. (The West side has lower level and graded tracks.)













Clearances with the MTH Premier Big Boy on Ø99 inner curve. The SF passenger train is on the outer Ø108 curve. So far I have had no interference problems, even when running the Big Boy and the Coal Turbine No. 80 side-by-side, whether either is on the inner or outer curves. The Ø108 and Ø99 are spaced 4-1/2" apart throughout, as are the Ø99 and Ø90 used in a few places.





Newly completed and painted Pratt Truss Bridge. The ‘higher’ bridge is for the “L” train.







And one overall of the East side.



Thank you for looking!

Alex

Alex, just amazing! and its trains are also beautiful, my son was mad at bigboy he loves this train!

Excellent work, please continue posting!

Leandro ...

Alex,
All I can say is 'AWLSOME'. I hope I can do one tenth as good with my next layout, if my house wasn't for sale I'd start tearing down my layout now. I am new to this hobby and have my first layout since I was very young, made a lot of mistakes, hope I have enough years left to do better.

How often do you connect to the track, what is the spacing between connections? Your wireing diagrahm shows spread out connections.

I hope when your layout is at least near completion you will accept visitors.

Keep up the 'GREAT' work and thanks for sharing.

Mike Orite

Mike,

Coincidentally, I just happened to briefly describe my track connection in a thread in the DCS forum. Here is what I said:
“Presently, I have the entire track in place and wired; that is, except for the “L” train, which will be a separate, isolated 30-ft loop. (See below). The turnouts are not wired yet for control, and neither are the relays and switches to turn the track districts and blocks on and off.

Each of the dual mainline tracks (275 feet per) is divided into 10 districts, and are fed by one of the eight channels (two TIU’s) so no two adjacent districts are fed by the same channel. The 24 sidings and spurs are also distributed among the eight channels, such that each channel terminal block has no more than six tracks connected to it.

The wires from the terminal blocks to the tracks range from eight to 16 feet long, 16 AWG. The eight wires from the TIU output channels to the terminal blocks are 12 to 20 feet long, 14 AWG. And the four wires from the two Z4000’s to the TIU’s are 40 and 100 feet long, 12 AWG. I still have the magic light bulbs at each TIU output channel, and now have Deats Filters at the end of each spur. I am in the process of adding more filters.”

There have been comments made, all of which are fine, and some of our friends do not believe that it is necessary to have so many track blocks and feeds. They may well be right, but it will not hurt to do it as I have done it. Also, this approach is recommended by Rick Melvin in the DCS video, as well as by Barry Broskowitz in his DCS book, on page 60.

I have made a few modifications to the layout, and this is the track plan now. I will probably add a turntable (CSX AL will be hearing from me soon) and roundhouse at Villa de Rocas.

UPPER & "L" TRAIN LEVELS




I am making the support for the ”L” Train out of plastic molding from Home Depot, and will use Railking Elevated Trestle Sets. The long empty span on the left of the picture is for a bridge over Lake Chiemsee, which already is up on the layout.




And thank you for your comments!

Alex

Alex GREAT WORK.

quote:

I have made a few modifications to the layout, and this is the track plan now. I will probably add a turntable (CSX AL will be hearing from me soon) and roundhouse at Villa de Rocas.

Alex,

Looking forward to working with you.

All the track is done (except for a couple of minor changes where the turntable will be) and I am ready for scenery and switch-track and accessory wiring. Once the scenery is in place, a lot of the lower level track will not be seen from the main viewing area. It will always be seen from the back of the layout.

Anyway, I decided to take some pictures of the overall as it now stands to share with you.

This is one of the viewing platforms. It is 16” high, 60” wide and 24” deep. There is a step up to it. Other platforms, in the aisles, will be a little lower.



Finally unpacked a few more of the locomotives.



The rest of the pictures I took while standing on the floor or from a viewing platform.





















The "L" train track 'loop' is 32-ft long.





The longest straight stretch, along the back - about 36-ft.







This is where I will have the turntable and 3-stall roundhouse, so the layout will change somewhat.























I hope that wasn’t too boring.

Thanks for looking!

Alex

It looks great Alex. Turntable will look nice in that spot. I have been stalled on my layout doing summer stuff but should get back to it soon.

Impressive!
Alex where did you get the elevated structure from the one the subway is riding on?
George

Thanks, Don!

George,
The support beams for the “L” train track is made of 1/4” x 3/4" simulated-wood plastic molding, as shown in my post of 05 August, above.

The silver piers are Railking, and the taller supports are made of 1x4’s on top of 2x4’s with an intermediate 1x4 piece. I then added some 1/4" square pieces on the sides of the 2x4’s. There is no prototype for this – I just made something easy to make and hope that it looks somewhat real.











When I first made the “L” train structure, I measured the double-stack cars and containers I had, and I had enough clearance. But then I bought other cars and containers, and oops! I had a problem. This required the additional 1/4" piece at the bottom of every pier and support. This results in a clearance of about 6” above the rails of the track under the “L” train.



Interference before the additional 1/4" base.


Hope this helps.

Alex

quote:

Originally posted by Paulinskill:
Alex,

I think your walls came out fine. If worried about it maybe you could add some haziness to simulate distance. Don't know how to go about it though.

Dullcoat

Alex,

Your layout is looking fantastic, great job!

Cesar