J Daddy posted:
I noticed too, the spacing is different from the head A unit to B unit... and the B unit to trailing A unit. the one in the picture is the worse case gap. Why the difference, is beyond me.
 

There was discussion about that issue with the last run of Legacy F-3s (probably F-7s) as well. I don't remember the reason, but you could go back and find those threads. Might have been that one end of the B had an electrocoupler which was a different length. Some talked about replacing one of the couplers to even them up.

Breezinup- Agreed, thanks for the reminder. I will take some dimensions today

TD- Thank you for the compliments on the layout. As you can see in the video there was still some major construction going on.

One thing I teach my son is, if something is broke, don't get excited, everything can be fixed, just make sure nobody was hurt!

 

TCA Number 16-71884

Well today I spent some time root causing the issue. I popped the shell and trace the program switch wires  back to the board. Sometimes wires are not crimped correctly inside their connectors and can cause the issue. 

20190620_094445

I notice the blue wire looked to be on an awkward angle. So I pressed on this wire while programing the new number. And it worked.  I was able to change the address from 1 to 57... problemed solved!... so I thought.  I cycled the power. once, twice, three times... ok … well on the fourth try it revert back to ID no. 1.

 

TCA Number 16-71884

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Photos (1)

So I sent a note to Dean at Lionel stating what I found. He confirmed the boards need to be flashed again. I then asked the question will the units that have been successfully change off ID 1 and remembered their ID change will they need to be flashed too? His reply was so far, if they remember them you should be good to go. So only the units that cannot be programed or immediately forget their program need to be returned. 

TCA Number 16-71884

Next being on good terms with my LHS. I called the owner. Notified that his sets were suspect. I asked if I could test his stock and if I find a replacement for my A unit could I exchange it. He stated sure. So out of the 15 units I tested 6 were not remembering their program. In this case is was the A units. All the B units with super bass worked fine. 

I was lucky enough to find a replacement that seemed to remember its new ID program. So I am going to set up and run tonight and hope for the best.

 

TCA Number 16-71884

On a much lighter note. Did anyone notice the spring corner steps to allow for tighter radii?

20190620_095434

20190620_095500

 

Note in the top picture. The black screw required tightening and was loose out of the box. You will have to remove the shell in order to do this. I will be removing the ladders later to Paint them grey to match the B unit.

 

TCA Number 16-71884

Attachments

Photos (2)
J Daddy posted:

So I sent a note to Dean at Lionel stating what I found. He confirmed the boards need to be flashed again. I then asked the question will the units that have been successfully change off ID 1 and remembered their ID change will they need to be flashed too? His reply was so far, if they remember them you should be good to go. So only the units that cannot be programed or immediately forget their program need to be returned. 

I’m not well versed on the “Term” Flashed!  What is all that about, before I purchase one of these!!

Thanks

Fredstrains posted:

I’m not well versed on the “Term” Flashed!  What is all that about, before I purchase one of these!!

Thanks

It's a computer term. Flashing in simple words means when a computer is reprogrammed from an outside source. The reason for this is that sometimes the code on a computer is broken and cannot be fixed by restarting it, so user intervention is required and the computer is reprogrammed from the outside which usually guarantees that it will operate right.

In this case, the legacy board is being reprogrammed so that the forgotten ID issue is resolved.

J Daddy posted:

So I sent a note to Dean at Lionel stating what I found. He confirmed the boards need to be flashed again. I then asked the question will the units that have been successfully change off ID 1 and remembered their ID change will they need to be flashed too? His reply was so far, if they remember them you should be good to go. So only the units that cannot be programed or immediately forget their program need to be returned. 

Depending on the required equipment and time it takes to complete, I wonder if Lionel will consider having a “flash” table at their fall York booth area for both customers & dealers to have their PA’s memory chips re-flashed?  Saves on shipping costs, reduces risk of damage and provides excellent turnaround time.  MTH currently provides dcs TIU/remote updates at their booth.  Remember when MTH also had a repair tent outside the grandstand - was it late 90’s?

You can have a steam train ...If you'd just lay down your tracks.

This is a constant headache in the automotive world.  Lots of on board modules that talk to each other.  Or just the latest updates required for user interface. Dealerships are plagued with software updates that are required at the time of sale.  If I  buy another set of PA'S at York.  I'm just going to hand them over to Dave or Ryan.

TCA Number 16-71884

J Daddy posted:

This is a constant headache in the automotive world.  Lots of on board modules that talk to each other.  Or just the latest updates required for user interface. Dealerships are plagued with software updates that are required at the time of sale.  If I  buy another set of PA'S at York.  I'm just going to hand them over to Dave or Ryan.

Since these new Alco's have Bluetooth you would think I could just do the firmware myself from my phone or PC. (HINT LIONEL).

BNSF-Matt posted:
J Daddy posted:

This is a constant headache in the automotive world.  Lots of on board modules that talk to each other.  Or just the latest updates required for user interface. Dealerships are plagued with software updates that are required at the time of sale.  If I  buy another set of PA'S at York.  I'm just going to hand them over to Dave or Ryan.

Since these new Alco's have Bluetooth you would think I could just do the firmware myself from my phone or PC. (HINT LIONEL).

Was about to say this. I am pretty confident Lionel is working on this already. Imagine all the possibilities, changing up sounds, new lighting control, new smoke control, better motor control. Lots of possibilities. I believe MTH is going to jump on that train first though, they do have a history of integrating modern tech into trains first.

breezinup posted:
J Daddy posted:
I noticed too, the spacing is different from the head A unit to B unit... and the B unit to trailing A unit. the one in the picture is the worse case gap. Why the difference, is beyond me.
 

There was discussion about that issue with the last run of Legacy F-3s (probably F-7s) as well. I don't remember the reason, but you could go back and find those threads. Might have been that one end of the B had an electrocoupler which was a different length. Some talked about replacing one of the couplers to even them up.

Didn't they come with a dummy coupler in the box in case you didn't want the 3' gap between units?

J Daddy posted:

Well today I spent some time root causing the issue. I popped the shell and trace the program switch wires  back to the board. Sometimes wires are not crimped correctly inside their connectors and can cause the issue. 

20190620_094445

I notice the blue wire looked to be on an awkward angle. So I pressed on this wire while programing the new number. And it worked.  I was able to change the address from 1 to 57... problemed solved!... so I thought.  I cycled the power. once, twice, three times... ok … well on the fourth try it revert back to ID no. 1.

 

This sounded like bad connection between the Program/Run switch and the board all the time. Not something that required reflashing the memory.

I have seen this problem for other issues like headlights randomly going on and off. Pins not fully inserted into their housings or connectors not fully inserted in the boards. Every wire connection can be a source for failure.

Pete

Norton posted:
J Daddy posted:

Well today I spent some time root causing the issue. I popped the shell and trace the program switch wires  back to the board. Sometimes wires are not crimped correctly inside their connectors and can cause the issue. 

20190620_094445

I notice the blue wire looked to be on an awkward angle. So I pressed on this wire while programing the new number. And it worked.  I was able to change the address from 1 to 57... problemed solved!... so I thought.  I cycled the power. once, twice, three times... ok … well on the fourth try it revert back to ID no. 1.

 

This sounded like bad connection between the Program/Run switch and the board all the time. Not something that required reflashing the memory.

I have seen this problem for other issues like headlights randomly going on and off. Pins not fully inserted into their housings or connectors not fully inserted in the boards. Every wire connection can be a source for failure.

Pete

I was not sure if the run switch circuit needed continuity all the time? 

TCA Number 16-71884

BobbyD posted:
breezinup posted:
J Daddy posted:
I noticed too, the spacing is different from the head A unit to B unit... and the B unit to trailing A unit. the one in the picture is the worse case gap. Why the difference, is beyond me.
 

There was discussion about that issue with the last run of Legacy F-3s (probably F-7s) as well. I don't remember the reason, but you could go back and find those threads. Might have been that one end of the B had an electrocoupler which was a different length. Some talked about replacing one of the couplers to even them up.

Didn't they come with a dummy coupler in the box in case you didn't want the 3' gap between units?

Nope. I usually use a dummy Weaver coupler cut down to shorten the gap 

 

TCA Number 16-71884

AmeenTrainGuy posted:
BNSF-Matt posted:
J Daddy posted:

This is a constant headache in the automotive world.  Lots of on board modules that talk to each other.  Or just the latest updates required for user interface. Dealerships are plagued with software updates that are required at the time of sale.  If I  buy another set of PA'S at York.  I'm just going to hand them over to Dave or Ryan.

Since these new Alco's have Bluetooth you would think I could just do the firmware myself from my phone or PC. (HINT LIONEL).

Was about to say this. I am pretty confident Lionel is working on this already. Imagine all the possibilities, changing up sounds, new lighting control, new smoke control, better motor control. Lots of possibilities. I believe MTH is going to jump on that train first though, they do have a history of integrating modern tech into trains first.

Problem is the tool, software, and files to do this is probably all proprietary 

TCA Number 16-71884

J Daddy posted:
Norton posted:
J Daddy posted:

Well today I spent some time root causing the issue. I popped the shell and trace the program switch wires  back to the board. Sometimes wires are not crimped correctly inside their connectors and can cause the issue. 

20190620_094445

I notice the blue wire looked to be on an awkward angle. So I pressed on this wire while programing the new number. And it worked.  I was able to change the address from 1 to 57... problemed solved!... so I thought.  I cycled the power. once, twice, three times... ok … well on the fourth try it revert back to ID no. 1.

 

This sounded like bad connection between the Program/Run switch and the board all the time. Not something that required reflashing the memory.

I have seen this problem for other issues like headlights randomly going on and off. Pins not fully inserted into their housings or connectors not fully inserted in the boards. Every wire connection can be a source for failure.

Pete

I was not sure if the run switch circuit needed continuity all the time? 

Run is open circuit. The switch has to be closed to program. If there is an open circuit anywhere you will never be in program mode and the engine never accepts a new number.

Pete

J Daddy posted:
BobbyD posted:
breezinup posted:
J Daddy posted:
I noticed too, the spacing is different from the head A unit to B unit... and the B unit to trailing A unit. the one in the picture is the worse case gap. Why the difference, is beyond me.
 

There was discussion about that issue with the last run of Legacy F-3s (probably F-7s) as well. I don't remember the reason, but you could go back and find those threads. Might have been that one end of the B had an electrocoupler which was a different length. Some talked about replacing one of the couplers to even them up.

Didn't they come with a dummy coupler in the box in case you didn't want the 3' gap between units?

Nope. I usually use a dummy Weaver coupler cut down to shorten the gap 

 

Looked in the boxes, all the new ones have a short dummy coupler to replace the long electrocoupler.

BobbyD posted:
J Daddy posted:
BobbyD posted:
breezinup posted:
J Daddy posted:
I noticed too, the spacing is different from the head A unit to B unit... and the B unit to trailing A unit. the one in the picture is the worse case gap. Why the difference, is beyond me.
 

There was discussion about that issue with the last run of Legacy F-3s (probably F-7s) as well. I don't remember the reason, but you could go back and find those threads. Might have been that one end of the B had an electrocoupler which was a different length. Some talked about replacing one of the couplers to even them up.

Didn't they come with a dummy coupler in the box in case you didn't want the 3' gap between units?

Nope. I usually use a dummy Weaver coupler cut down to shorten the gap 

 

Looked in the boxes, all the new ones have a short dummy coupler to replace the long electrocoupler.

Mine is missing.

TCA Number 16-71884

Norton posted:
J Daddy posted:
Norton posted:
J Daddy posted:

Well today I spent some time root causing the issue. I popped the shell and trace the program switch wires  back to the board. Sometimes wires are not crimped correctly inside their connectors and can cause the issue. 

20190620_094445

I notice the blue wire looked to be on an awkward angle. So I pressed on this wire while programing the new number. And it worked.  I was able to change the address from 1 to 57... problemed solved!... so I thought.  I cycled the power. once, twice, three times... ok … well on the fourth try it revert back to ID no. 1.

 

This sounded like bad connection between the Program/Run switch and the board all the time. Not something that required reflashing the memory.

I have seen this problem for other issues like headlights randomly going on and off. Pins not fully inserted into their housings or connectors not fully inserted in the boards. Every wire connection can be a source for failure.

Pete

I was not sure if the run switch circuit needed continuity all the time? 

Run is open circuit. The switch has to be closed to program. If there is an open circuit anywhere you will never be in program mode and the engine never accepts a new number.

Pete

Good to note. However, after I was able to change the number, after several power off cycles it reverted back to 1. That is when I realized it was not a switch issue. 

TCA Number 16-71884

So good news. I was able to find another A unit at my LHS and as I was there I tested the existing stock.

I was able to confirm out of the 12 units tested all the units that were able to reassign an ID held their ID. 

About half of them will have to go back. I am on day 3 of running my set and so far so good. 

TCA Number 16-71884

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