I love O Scale but....... thoughts and ponderings

I just don't find myself satisfied by locomotives, rolling stock and structures smaller than 1:48 scale. During the past four years I have been building a realistic 10'-by-5' layout that represents a single-track New England branch line including a tunnel, a truss bridge, a trestle, a stream, and a small downtown - with just an O-54 oval of track. For me, these elements create sufficient interest just by watching the train circulate through the realistic scenery, although I realize that it might not satisfy most people. I run small scale-sized locomotives and cars with short freights or an occasional two-car passenger train. I considered it a challenge to create a realistic O-gauge layout in such a small space and feel that I have succeeded in that regard. I had also thought about doing this layout in 1:48 On30 narrow gauge or S-scale but decided to stay with O-gauge because I have a large collection of O-gauge trains.

You can see some photos of the layout from early 2017 at this link:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-2-8-0-501-on-layout

MELGAR

TEXASSP, I feel your pain! I had a shelf layout in my garage a few years ago that was 20x20 or so. The layout was 6 feet above the floor with 3 mainlines, sidings, crossovers, scenery, buildings and a 16 foot long suspended bridge at the garage door supported by a cable system so no post to be in the way ( it only deflected 1/4 inch with two die cast steam engines on it). I could still park my cars in the garage and relax running trains after work.  I ran long freight and passenger trains as well as locals delivering to industries. But that all came to an end when I had to move.

Fast forward to today. I still have a lot of 3RS trains but no longer run them since I no longer have a layout. I joined a local HO club here in the Niles district of Fremont CA. just to be able to keep trains in my life and I kind of fell hard  into HO. This is a large club layout that has a lot of great people. What is available in HO blows my mind! I am having a lot of fun and can run very long trains but it is still not "O". Just not the same! Love the heft and the detailing that can be done with a larger scale. My heart will always be in O scale but Ho is fun. My eyes are to old for N scale with all those tiny wheels!

That being said, you may want to give more thought to a shelf / ceiling layout as you can still do all the scenery and details and still be able to have your floor space. Done right it can be spectacular! Bonus is with a shelf layout at 6 feet or so, you do not see the middle rail! If I can find my pictures of my old ceiling layout ( it really was cool) I will post them for you or message me and I can do it that way too.

There are a few other forum members that have shelf/ceiling layouts so hopefully they will chime in also.

Paul

MELGAR posted:

I just don't find myself satisfied by locomotives, rolling stock and structures smaller than 1:48 scale. During the past four years I have been building a realistic 10'-by-5' layout that represents a single-track New England branch line including a tunnel, a truss bridge, a trestle, a stream, and a small downtown - with just an O-54 oval of track. For me, these elements create sufficient interest just by watching the train circulate through the realistic scenery, although I realize that it might not satisfy most people. I run small scale-sized locomotives and cars with short freights or an occasional two-car passenger train. I considered it a challenge to create a realistic O-gauge layout in such a small space and feel that I have succeeded in that regard. I had also thought about doing this layout in 1:48 On30 narrow gauge or S-scale but decided to stay with O-gauge because I have a large collection of O-gauge trains.

You can see some photos of the layout from early 2017 at this link:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-2-8-0-501-on-layout

MELGAR

I'm impressed with what you have done. Many times, modelers going into O are put off by seeing and thinking they need large space for a layout. Many of those with 12' or less have built and building amazing scenery and running trackage within the confined given and limited areas available to them.

Hope to see more smaller layouts.

I had a decent size O scale layout several years ago in which I eventually dismantled it to  make additional room for our other hobby "Pinball Machines". As the years went by my son wanted to have another layout again but space was an issue having all these pinball machines so we decided to try out hand with DCC and picked up some Atlas Gold series engines and a ton of Broadway Limited Imports, Paragon 3's and some Paragon 2's.  The sounds in the bli units are outstanding and some of their diesels actually smoke now as well. So now I'll fast forward to the part where we started to lay the tracks, I think we got maybe 13 pieces of track section down into the foam boards, I tried one of diesels back and forth on it and to be honest that was it, I took up the HO tracks and decided to go back into O scale where my heart is. Although the sounds were great, coming from O scale which has bigger speakers the sound has a much better drive to it, and smoke well all my O scale units are MTH so I'm sure we are all familiar that and I honestly felt  there was no comparison in addition O scale is a bit easier on my eyes to see and for my detailing. We decided just to have a smaller but well detailed O scale layout that I'm in the process of doing now, as well as selling a ton of HO stuff LOL. I guess it just comes down to what your preference is. Best of luck with ever you decide, and just have fun.

Were I to do it over again ...

I would go N, and I would go with Kato track on my fledgling 8'x8' layout. So much more can be done. 

The sound attack from O scale locos is second to none, but the cost and the space required is a turn-off. 

Plus, and as I have said elsewhere, I am NOT pleased with MTH quality. 

I will more than likely end up doing an O-Scale layout in the basement of our house and do an N Scale coffee table layout, since I received my Father-in-laws N-Scale Trains after he passed away.

I tried N and HO years ago. Though I could get more railroad in a smaller space, I enjoy the heft, detail and durability of O. I was frustrated with constant derailments in N, and HO (at that time) did not have all of the sounds, and the switches were fragile.  I have emotional ties to O in that my Dad and I ran O and I inherited a good part of his collection. Also, My eyes aren’t as good as they used to be either  .

I had enough of H.O. back in the 90's. The Athearn locos were great, gluing those tiny handrail stanchions on...not so much.

 The constant need for impeccably clean track. When I attend the big "Worlds Greatest Train Show" with all scales present. The H.O and N scale layouts always have trains lurching around, while the O guage stuff purrs along.

There were always those pieces of  my H.O. rolling stock that derailed for no apparent reason, no matter how smooth the trackwork.

After modelling O for 13 years I could never go back to H.O. it just looks too tiny, N wouldn't even be a consideration. What good are extra rivets if you can't even see them?

No matter how accurate, IMO, the sounds in the smaller scales are just too flat and unimpressive.

Lastly, nothing beats the heft of a scale O guage steamer. When visitors question the expense of my hobby, I carefully put one in their hands and watch the expression.

Those are merely MY opinions on the subject "Texas SP". Ultimately its your choice to do what makes you happy. If thats a smaller scale, then by all means, go for it!

MELGAR posted:

...During the past four years I have been building a realistic 10'-by-5' layout that represents a single-track New England branch line including a tunnel, a truss bridge, a trestle, a stream, and a small downtown - with just an O-54 oval of track....I run small scale-sized locomotives and cars with short freights or an occasional two-car passenger train. I considered it a challenge to create a realistic O-gauge layout in such a small space and feel that I have succeeded in that regard....

MELGAR

Spoke with Mel today. OGR magazine readers will be seeing more of his layout and craftsmanship in future issues.

I’m no way finished with my O gauge trains.

However in the past 3 years or so I have really been having a lot of enjoyment working and learning  with G scale, One Gauge.

Just a challenge that I’m enjoying playing with trains in the yard.

Larry

Texassp, I appreciate where you're at.  I arrived at O last fall after years with HONGZ (but no Z).  Maybe while you get your head right you should do the ceiling layout?  That'll get you moving forward with O and see where it all takes you.  I like O the best but there's no perfect solution.  If I only had an empty warehouse in my backyard and a few million...

My layout now is much smaller then I had when I owned a home but now I'm in a one bedroom apt. and yes I still have a layout.  It is 4x16' so that restricts me to O36 and I'm using superO track which looks great IMO. 

I really like scale but running on O36 means smaller prototypes and running trains like RK scale and some semi-scale that fits in my layout. You have to choose carefully. Although my layout is not large I make it as close to scale as I can. 

The most important thing is to not get tied up about scale, if it looks good go with it and have fun.  

Dave

Just to clarify, I currently have a layout in progress, but will probably scrap it and rework to ceiling style.  I intend to keep only a couple of locos, 3 at most and a set of passenger cars along with a set of freight.

I envy those who are satisfied with making O work in smaller spaces or with non scale and traditional size equipment.  It just doesn't work for my mind.  I feel like I have to make too many compromises to achieve what I want.

So for me it comes down to space as I can't get even partially the idea of what I want in my space with O.  Then money  and time because to achieve the scale looks I want would take so much money and extra time I could spend focused elsewhere.

Luckily N has really come along way, even further than O in many ways.  Also the amount of detail achieved in such a small scale now is amazing.

I grew up with O scale for most of my life. I recently just started thinning out some of my O scale items I didn't use anymore and buying more HO (DCC). I joined a ho club near me and overall I have been pretty satisfied with it. Although I am into scale modeling, there really isn't anything I dislike in the hobby. I even like the toy train side almost as much as scale modeling. I still have most of my O scale and plan on keeping it since I might someday decide to go back. Although I will try to focus more on one scale, I think I will probably always have several scales. The space you can get out of HO and N is definitely a benefit if you are looking for a lot of buildings and scenery but also the detail in O scale (especially steam locomotives) is hard to beat. For me right now, I think HO maybe even N will fit what I am looking to get out of the hobby right now due to space and money, but things can change in the future. I think if thats what will keep you happy then go for it. 

I understand what you are feeling. I currently have a 25' X 15' Layout and plan to extend this into the adjacent room. Space is definitely and issue but as it has been stated before the heft and durability of O Scale can't be beat. Though many , in other scales and O Scale, have accomplished some very convincing/realistic layouts I believe much of the creativity comes from working with what you have. 

All of us can't have huge homes with the "ideal" space it takes to have a large O Scale layout with 099 or higher curves so I admire those who can create the illusion of one, and this is what I intend to do with my layout. There are also disadvantages in what is available off the shelf to us. Especially in comparison to some of the smaller scales. That's where more of the creativity comes in.

Based on your topic, not much of what others have said in this thread you haven't already considered, but finding what makes you happy is very much a personal thing.

I would venture to offer this advice to you. Think your next project through to insure you won't shake your head in disappointment once you have spent your precious time constructing it. To get the thrill of that "ideal" layout maybe join a railroad club if one is available to you and heck if there isn't maybe consider starting one. 

This hobby, like any, is meant to be a source of relaxation, accomplishment, and most importantly fun... not stress. So keep enjoying trains and having fun and keep us posted on your model railroading endeavors. I'm sure whatever you decide will be great.

Dave

The small size of HO just doesn't 'do it for me'.  I find it too fiddly and toy-like.  As others have said, trains tend to lurch around the tracks.  For me, HO & N & Z all lack visual impact.  As RICKO says, holding a weighty O scale locomotive in your hands makes quite an impact.  I'm also committed to O scale because I inherited my father's childhood O scale locos and rolling stock.

However, having said that, if I was starting afresh with no knowledge of any scale and each scale had an identical range of items to purchase, then I might be tempted to go for S scale.  S scale seems to be a nice compromise between visual impact and fitting a layout into a restricted space.

Gentlemen,

Run what you most like, me I am a Tin Plate O Gauge kind guy, that keeps looking at the STD Gauge Dark Side.  Very Dangerous expensive stuff, that big STD Gauge Silver Presidential Train keeps calling my name.

PCRR/Dave

We all have to realize that ANY model scale is at best a caricature of the real thing.  Even in N- an actual scale train would have 100 cars + 2- 4 locomotives.  That adds up (using 80' freight cars) to something like 1-1/2 miles- 50 actual feet, if you add some space for couplers!!  Grand Central Station alone is (by my calculations) is 8-1/2 feet on a side in N.  It had 47 tracks.  

Scale modeling ANY of this stuff is just impossible, no matter what scale you use.  So- make it a pleasing (to yourself) representation of what YOU like.  Have fun with it!!!  Otherwise you are headed for the "Model Railroaders Looney Bin"!!

Hey - play with some Z Scale for a few days - suddenly HO looks big!

All good points in this thread...

I can only add - the one thing that irks me about O gauge is the short trains...I can handle the rest of the illusion.

An ABA consist might be over 3 feet long - before you add any cars...

I want to build a layout with a run of hidden trackage - so the train can be extra long - leave the layout - and then return.

For me being poppopmike, I have had HO set up around the tree for the past 10 or so years. This January I ran across Lionchief sets. It was then I decided that HO was just not all than much fun for 4 year old little kids. With fastrack, I can now have a year around carpet central set up. He comes over every Sunday for dinner, we now play trains every week. He knows how to turn on the main power, the remotes and all the functions,the set up is the first thing he runs to when arriving. 

Oldmike

haven't started a layout and i love o scale especially stuff from the 1990s  but i also crave a LGB G scale layout

 another thing is the name i freelance so fictional is my game

here are names and time periods

MK Rail 1990s - modern day

Allegheny Federation 1998-2004

Red-Mir Western 1990s

At 76, for me it's simple...O and S have childhood memories for me.

TexasSP posted:

Just to clarify, I currently have a layout in progress, but will probably scrap it and rework to ceiling style.  I intend to keep only a couple of locos, 3 at most and a set of passenger cars along with a set of freight.

I envy those who are satisfied with making O work in smaller spaces or with non scale and traditional size equipment.  It just doesn't work for my mind.  I feel like I have to make too many compromises to achieve what I want.

So for me it comes down to space as I can't get even partially the idea of what I want in my space with O.  Then money  and time because to achieve the scale looks I want would take so much money and extra time I could spend focused elsewhere.

Luckily N has really come along way, even further than O in many ways.  Also the amount of detail achieved in such a small scale now is amazing.

TexasSP, I have a small area to build my small empire. Years back I bought the BSA engine for my son when he made eagle. But having a small area was a problem to run it, Especially since the town board (wife) would not let me expand 12 inches to run it. So instead of selling or not running I built the ceiling layout attached. It was a lot of work as I had to dismantle layout below to accomplish. But it worked out very well. I thought of down scaling, but like others I grew up with my dad running postwar. I have mostly postwar and a few newer items. It is a challenge finding what I like that will fit on the layout. But the ideas keep it challenging. And getting up in age I.M.H.O. its easier seeing and building with the larger scale, not a rivet counter (which is ok) just a train guy using whatever i can imagine..it is fun.

I owned only HO (beginning 55 years ago) or Z (beginning 35 years ago) scale trains until I was 40.  Little or no money, very little time and almost no space, mostly.  No layout except for around the tree and a small Z scale layout.  Played with the Z scale trains with my 2-3 year old son for a few years. 

Since then, have purchased almost exclusively O three rail, sold all the HO, but also bought some LGB large scale for around the tree, and started collecting N scale, mostly for display.  Much more money these days, still no time, but lots more space, and it's been fun.  Building a layout has been a distant and secondary goal to the pleasure of just handling and looking at these trains on display, although I do have small Z and N gauge layouts (no scenery) and a carpet O three rail layout.  Just another story....

I have considered joining a club, but then comes time and commitment issues.  There are some good clubs in Houston (although I am not interested in the 1 O gauge club).  The big problem with living in such a sprawling area is that none of the clubs are really convenient to me.  

Funny enough though the closest to me is the live steam group.  I have given some consideration to joining there and have found their fees, terms, and expectations very agreeable and well thought out.

They have free public run days once a month March through October and feature a large "layout" at a public park.

Honestly I feel my life being pushed in a different direction anyway.  I may not even make a move to N scale and sell the O I do have.  After all, they are just "things" in the end.  Life is full of seasons, I understand this more and more the older I get.  Appreciate and get joy from the season you're in, and when that's over embrace the next.  Maybe a move to just having a Christmas layout.  I know one poster on here who gets much joy from this his only layout which is shared in memories weekly.

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

I love O scale but pre-ordering just does not work for me. #stillwaitingformytheatrecar

it don't work for me either most of these trains i can't afford anyway and the sadness is if you don't preorder you usually can't get.

and i definately considering g scale because O scale almost costs the same as G  but G you get a bigger size train for the cash that you can run outside in SNOW and RAIN try that with O and you could run into a problem.

At 75, for me it is a no-brainer: "Lionel Classics" and MTH "Tinplate Traditions" standard gauge and ORIGINAL LGB plus a little Marklin LGB! I like new and shiny, hence the SG repros! All done with S, HO AND O and glad of it!  LOL!

TexasSP posted:

I have considered joining a club, but then comes time and commitment issues.  There are some good clubs in Houston (although I am not interested in the 1 O gauge club).  The big problem with living in such a sprawling area is that none of the clubs are really convenient to me.  

Funny enough though the closest to me is the live steam group.  I have given some consideration to joining there and have found their fees, terms, and expectations very agreeable and well thought out.

They have free public run days once a month March through October and feature a large "layout" at a public park.

Honestly I feel my life being pushed in a different direction anyway.  I may not even make a move to N scale and sell the O I do have.  After all, they are just "things" in the end.  Life is full of seasons, I understand this more and more the older I get.  Appreciate and get joy from the season you're in, and when that's over embrace the next.  Maybe a move to just having a Christmas layout.  I know one poster on here who gets much joy from this his only layout which is shared in memories weekly.

It sounds to me like you are coming up with a solution that is right for you at this point in your life.  Pursue this route for now, and later on you will have a better handle on how you want to change your interests again.  I have had trains since I was 12.  In the last 50 years I have focused on different scales at different times, and didn't actively run trains at certain points in my life.  All the while I still read magazines and enjoyed model trains even if it was just an occasional visit to a show or hobby shop.  Right now, I find O gauge to be the right answer for me even though my largest space is less than 12 x 12 feet.  I may join a modular club when I retire, but for now my little space is actually as much as I have time and funds to handle.  I wish you well in pursuing the hobby as suits during your entire life!!

I am a Toy Train Layout - started my layout in 1983 and went through a major overhaul in 1998. When we moved to my present location. Built an addition for the train room because the main part of the house has a Michigan Basement. Below is a panoramic photo shot with an iPhone.

The layout is about 24' x 9' • Shelf layout. • House built in 1936 • In new basement

You can find my layout on the cover of O Gauge Railroading, Run 278 June / July 2015

Built a Man Cave Layout, on pages: 48 - 53

My story & yes for O Trains, 3-rail, still have a lot more work to do....  Gary 

 I  guess there are more challenges for the marketing people than i thought. 

I about 98% certain I prefer the smaller scales but have mostly O right now.  I think my main interest is HO not because of its size but because its available around the world and my interests are there.    For example, recently I came upon a site for chinese model trains, mostly HO.  I was fascinated and if I had enough infrastructure in HO would purchase a few.   Rinse, repeat -- someplace else.

BTW totally off topic, there's some great vids on that website of in the last 10 yrs chinese steam trains doing their thing -- which the author of the website assures is dying out there very quickly there.

http://www.chinesemodeltrains.com/webvideos.html

Good Morning Everyone! I believe this site is to promote O Scale even though others are welcome. The gentleman wrote a heartfelt issue that he was having with staying with O Scale. With those two dynamics those that have similar thoughts have been responding but in the end, deciding to stick with O Scale. 

Though I appreciate the thoughts about deciding to go with other scales I hope that the goal, for this site, would be to support O Scale model railroading.

No stones please...

Dave

luvindemtrains posted:

Good Morning Everyone! I believe this site is to promote O Scale even though others are welcome. The gentleman wrote a heartfelt issue that he was having with staying with O Scale. With those two dynamics those that have similar thoughts have been responding but in the end, deciding to stick with O Scale. 

Though I appreciate the thoughts about deciding to go with other scales I hope that the goal, for this site, would be to support O Scale model railroading.

No stones please...

Dave

Dave,

I see the OP posted this topic in the HONGZ Forum, so he does have it in the right place.  I have the same problem, where I forget to look at the Forum where something is placed sometimes.  So no stones from me; I totally understand!!

I'll have to agree with some of the previous postings.  There is nothing like the weight of my scale FEF, heck even the tender, and aux tender are heavy!  I love placing my DD40 in the hand of a visitor to my layout.  Besides, I would have a very, very difficult time seeing HO scale and N scale. 

TexasSP posted:

..................to meet my vision of what I want to see. 

.

So, that pretty much defines everything.  If you're not going to be satisfied with compromises and limits to that vision, then just go with the scale that makes you happy and permits you to achieve your goals.  Don't waste time and energy on hand-wringing and 2nd-guessing yourself - just go do what make you happy.  Not much else really matters.

I do find the comments on detail in O scale interesting versus the smaller gauges.  Especially HO.  Most of my HO locos had much more fine detail and separately applied parts than what is comparable in O.

While O does have nice heft and the smoke/sound is fantastic, there are things in N and HO that blow it away.  When you take a Athearn N Scale BB for example and see all the intricate details that it still has and watch it work, it's like a fine watch.  As for the lurching in N this is not something I have witnessed outside some locos and dc only power.  Even without DCC almost every Kato runs like a swiss watch and Atlas is not far behind.

One really cool thing N has that a lot of the HO guys are jealous of is this wonderful site at www.spookshow.net which ranks every single loco ever almost.  Guy does an amazing breakdown with all the ins and outs.  He also has details on freight and passenger cars as well as trucks.  It's a fantastic resource to help you know what you're getting into with every loco new and old, the good and bad.  Even tips for making many of the lower performers run better.

I love O, but MWB really summed it up well.  What ties me the most back to O is it was my first from my childhood like so many others.

My childhood train was a Lionel, then I built a 4x8 HO layout when I was about 10.  I started a HO model train club in Middle School.  I left the hobby behind in HS and College.   Then when my 2nd son was 3 Grandpa gave us a Lionel set.   That re-ignited my interest in O-gauge and we built a small tubular layout in the unfinished basement.   I (we) were impressed by the sound, durability and ease of setup and operation of O.   I remember spending as much time cleaning my HO track as running.   I also liked the simplicity of configuring 3 rail reverse loops (which requires blocks in HO).   We got back into O in 2000, just when MTH was introducing DCS.   When we moved to a house with a finished basement we started building the Harpers Ferry layout.   Though the main train room is only 14x12, I'm happy with the not-to-scale representation of the location.   The size, heft, sound, detail and ease of operation and maintenance/repair of O will keep me from other scales.

TexasSP,  You make good cases for N or HO.  Through high school I ran a Tyco F7 that I bought in '68 or '69.  It was okay for a kid back then.  Then my wife got me a Bachmann 4-8-4 train set back in '84.  That engine left a lot to be desired.  I went back to HO in the late '90s and even steam engines weren't bad.  Now both scales have some wonderful engines and rolling stock.  I just decided they were too hard to see running on the layout.   Unless you are sporting a very old photograph, I would say your eyes are about half the age as mine are, so you should do great seeing either HO or N scale trains!!  

TexasSP posted:

I do find the comments on detail in O scale interesting versus the smaller gauges.  Especially HO.  Most of my HO locos had much more fine detail and separately applied parts than what is comparable in O.

 

I've never been in any other scale but 0 but the H0 stuff I've seen often blows the 0 scale stuff away and TODAY seems to run great as well.

You have to look at some of the guys who start out with "I was into H0 in the 90's" and wonder if they are comparing apples to oranges.