Inadequate Packing Leads to Damage!

I remember helping my son with one of his school projects years ago. We had to design a packaging system that would allow a raw egg to survive a 5' drop.   All shippers should strive for that goal and all would be good.

By the way, our egg survived.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Now let me get this straight. You say when something inadequately packed gets shipped it could lead to damage?......no way?!

And then you kept the damaged items and did the repair yourself? What does this teach the dealer?  Its O.K. to expect out of the box damage and repairs?

Where have I heard this before?

Not entirely sure if this was a private sale or not, but the reality is that many manufactures cut corners allot to save money for the bottom line. The items have to make an arduous and often long journey from places like China, via truck, ship, rail and then back into a truck again before they arrive eventually at the hobby store. By the time they do, it is entirely possible that the item might have been damaged no matter how well it was packed.

Generally speaking, most items do not suffer from this debacle, but in reality, one must expect at some point in this hobby to have one item not come as advertised. Which in a word is dismal. Especially when one has waited for a number of months, weeks and even a year for that item.

I have been through this so many times I have actually lost count. I consider myself to be an expert at receiving damaged goods......LOL

Lose packaging is a sure sign of very poor quality control as well as poor management. While I understand the tendency not to blame the retailer, in reality, they must also share in the blame. After all, they should be checking these items quite frequently to ensure these type things do not occur. Just my two cents worth......

Pete

I might add that some, not all, but some manufactures/companies actually conduct what they call rough shipping test to determine if the product can survive the typical pitfalls that happen when being transported by so many means of transportation. The test are designed to improve packaging and the materials used within the packaging. Sometimes, too much packaging can have deleterious affects on items being sent too and fro.

Pete

This WAS a commercial dealer, who DID offer a refund and return shipping costs. 

It is quite possible that the item was damaged in transit from China. 

As I mentioned above, the other three (passenger cars) were undamaged.

Things happen! 

If I had to count all the stuff I've gotten for upgrades or repairs that was poorly packed, I'd have to split it into multiple posts!  I've seen all sorts of shipping damage, and virtually all of it was due to poor packing.

Probably more important than excessive padding is making sure the item can NOT move any way inside the packaging.  If it can move, it can beat itself to death!

Glad you were able to work this out. A damaged item is sometimes so distressing at times. Especially when one has waited a long time and is excited and has expectations.

Pete

I have a little saying when I pack something to ship."If you can't drop it from a plane it's not ready to ship"

I'd agree, but if what you use doesn't fit the guidelines, the shippers will take you to task for it (i.e., say it was packaged improperly).

I suppose there could be an argument for packaging that is too rigid just transferring shock to the item wrapped inside, but I am not a dynamics engineer doing shock analyses.

I remember years ago shipping some Acela cars to Lionel for exchange and the guy at the UPS store asked how I packed them (probably due to the amount I insured them for). 

When I told him I had padded everything very well with crumpled newspaper (rigidly, not just a few loose pieces), he told me I improperly packed it (newspaper is apparently not approved for insurance claims) and should have used packing peanuts (which they just so happen to be selling bags of at the store). 

There is no way I was about to unpack what I had done and "half fast" (apologies to Verizon) it with a quick repack in the store.

I then told him since it was an exchange I was primarily insuring it just in case they lost my package, so if I had to make a claim, no one would ever be able to prove I didn't pack it right.  I'm not sure he liked that part of the conversation.

-Dave

I ordered a replacement power window motor for my wife's Pilot on Ebay.- the part came in the box with NO packing at all, and the window guide was bent, right where the box had been bent/stepped on. It took another 3 weeks to receive a refund, and when I ordered the same part from another vendor (this time Autozone), I made sure I could get a faster refund if the part was damaged the same way. Fortunately it came intact- but these Chinese parts manufacturers really need to increase their Quality assurance. How much does some packing foam cost to prevent a damaged product? It was a total waste of my time.

Geno

This can't be stated enough!

It's so simple. 

I won a rare 3rd Rail locomotive on an auctions site.  You can imagine my disappointment when it arrived and was beat to hell during shipping-seller left a 1/2" gap between box and locomotive.  Easily prevented with adequate packaging.

If you ship a lot of items, it's a matter of when, not if, this is going to happen.  Usually, it's that rare item you've been searching years for!

Wife received a box of plates from Kohl's last week. I we were in trouble when I opened the large outer box to find a much smaller box just set in there, no attempt to protect it or fill it with foam. Luckily Kohl's has easy returns at the local store

My train store is always getting stuff beat to hell. Rips, tears, dents etc. I am there and here them complain about it, but what can one do when one is at the mercy of such careless and thoughtless shippers?

It is what it is.

Pete

I used to buy and sell art glass online.  Despite my offer to pay extra for double-boxing and bubble-wrapping an expensive piece, you would not believe the idiots out there that would ship on the cheap, wrapping glass in newspaper and loosely shoving it into the wrong sized box.  Nothing worse that receiving a $250 dollar box of glass, complete with the ominous rattle of broken glass.

What a timely topic. I have had a rash of poorly packed items lately. The last was a Mccoy boxcar that was shipped in the original box with original single sheet of paper wrapped around it. It arrived crushed. Proper packing would have prevented the problem. Still trying to get that issue resolved.

Bob

Reading this reminds me of last year when I won an auction for a postwar Lionel radar tower. The seller did a horrible job of packing at best with plastic grocery bags and recycle thin cardboard boxes with lots of tape. The thing arrived crushed and **** near bent 90 degrees. The seller was a jerk and demanded a lot of pictures and then wanted me to pay shipping back he could inspect the damage. What? Pay for now packing, new bigger box to place this in, and then pay out of my pocket? I was so mad that I just left a horrible rating and moved on. I now use what is left of it with a big spider for a Halloween display.

You guys might also enjoy model rocketry...Jeff Davis

I should mention that there was only ONE other dealer on the MTH Product Locator that had a set of these passenger cars. So, to get a new replacement car, and also a duplicate extra coach, I decided to get another set.

I once had to ship a $3000 RC-controlled G scale (1:22.5) live steam loco and insure it via UPS. I purchased a foam mattress roll and after wrapping the engine in some Lionel plastic engine sheets, I then rolled the engine up in the mattress pad. I used additional sections of the roll on each end of the loco and then packed it in an extra heavy duty TRIPLE-walled corrugated carton. The tender was similarly packed.

Shipping cost with $3000 worth of insurance was about $150, but it arrived there in perfect condition!

I once met a fellow collector of Murano glass clowns.  He had successfully bid against me for a clown riding a high wheeled bicycle. The clown was shipped to Pittsburgh from England and took an extended amount of time.  When it arrived, in perfect condition, my fellow collector found that the seller had taken the time and effort to make a custom walnut felt and foam lined box to perfectly house the clown.  I think the clown was auctioned for $1800.00.  Now, that is an example of good packing.. Bob Severin

I had this happen years ago with a 226E engine and tender.  The seller put both in a large flat rate Priority box with 2 or 3 sheets of newspaper wadded into balls.  When it showed up, one cab side was bashed in and fractured and the tender had a dent in the side from the two bouncing off each other in transit.  To make it worse, shedidn't put the right amount of ins on it.  I ended up keeping it and she did actually give me a partial refund with no issues, but it sure can happen!

I recently purchased 3 prewar O72 switches at a popular online auction.  I was appalled when the switches arrived.  They were wrapped in a single sheet of newspaper and tightly bound in a USPS priority mail box.  The pins from one of the switches had poked holes through the side of the box and were protruding through the box wall.  It was plain for me and anyone else to see before the box was even opened.

If you're familiar with these switches, you'll know that the tinplate rails are directly clamped to the die-cast zinc bases and any sort of jarring action to the rails either rips them free or, worse, damages the base.  I have seen and passed on numerous switches in the latter condition.

When I got them out of the box, all was ok, fortunately.  Perhaps the track pins were protected by being next to some old lady's sweater in the postal truck ... and perhaps my pins mangled the crap out our her sweater item ...

The shipper was an idiot. He's a toy train guy who should have known better.  Grrrrr.

I bought a number of 3rd-Rail locomotives from a popular on-line seller that had lots of them listed for some time.  Out of the three, I only kept one as the other two were badly damaged in shipping by poor packing.  The 3rd, and last one, was double packed and actually survived the trip.  I'm guessing they finally saw the light!  A guy at our club bought a 3rd-Rail E4 Atlantic from the same seller, and it had punched through the box similar to the switches described above.  Obviously, it was heavily damaged and also went back.

I marveled at how they could send so many fairly expensive locomotives with sub-standard that almost guaranteed they'd be damaged in shipping!  All I can see is it must be a high profit enterprise to withstand the losses!

I wanted an engine repaired and send it to a "forum member" who did a super, great job on my little L&N Engine but in a very polite manner suggested I take some packing lessons.

When I need some more repair work, I will make sure the item will survive a trip to Denver.

Brent

I always pick up the factory box after putting the locomotive into it and shake it in multiple dimensions.  If I feel anything moving, I open it up and insert more padding until nothing moves.  Then I put it into the outside carton for shipment.

When I order items from Trainworld I always request that they "double-box" the item in contrast to just applying a shipping label to the Lionel shipper. They always graciously comply. Always ask courteously. Offer to pay for any additional packaging. Most importantly, ask for this service before the transaction/billing details are started. Even the busiest places will comply if you are fair and respectful. Those places who object or start in with "if I had to double box everything......" are met with a click as I hang up....others will gladly comply and take your business. 

You found a live steam engine for 3 grand!!!  WHERE????

I'm still hunting a live steam berk!  

That's the way I would have handled it too, instead of sending good money after bad.

Way to go.  It seems to me that fewer and fewer shippers are double-boxing anymore.

Well done.

You're much more understanding than I would be. 

That description basically reduces the item to scrap in my mind (though I am admittedly not knowledgeable re: the 226E, so maybe even a beat up one is worth something?). 

I would not have considered a partial refund in that condition to be a satisfactory arrangement.

-Dave

This also applies when folks ship trains for repairs.  Even when shipping in the original box (best method) they fail to use the wrapping paper or foam inserts.  This allows the train to move inside the foam and collect foam, break the box foam and still damage detail parts.

Or it is wrapped in bubble wrap, but placed in open box and again allowed to float and bang around in the box.  This bends couplers and steps/plows, breaks bells and other detail parts. 

Tight wrap, no movement, and at least 2" clearance all around if not in the original box.   G

One of the reasons I prefer to by from Mario's Trains is that it always box-within-a-box packing. Train box is inside a bigger box surrounded by foam peanuts.

Yeah, but you pay for it. Mario's is somewhere in the middle when it comes to price, and they do hit you up for shipping pretty good during most of the year IIRC.

People are going to the rock-bottom places, that sell everything for $50 less than everyone else, with free shipping, and expect these places to pack stuff to survive "Hurricane UPS" 100% of the time. Think about it. They're cutting costs somewhere...

It seems like everybody wants quality, but nobody wants to pay for it.

I debated whether to pay return shipping on a damaged item. In the end, I did. A partial refund at this point is better. 

Bob

per grj:

Probably more important than excessive padding is making sure the item can NOT move any way inside the packaging.  If it can move, it can beat itself to death!

Yep. I've had two locomotives, a 3rd Rail PRR I-1 and a Right-of-Way C&O K-4, badly damaged. In the first instance the I-1 was shipped in the original super-soft foam (OK for HO only). In the second instance the K-4 was basically slapped into its box with a little foam thrown in for good measure. Got the I-1 for a never-to-be equaled price so I paid a master brass-monger to fix it for me. Fixed the K-4 with help from a soldering-meister friend.