Is the rumor of the DCS handheld discontinuance substantiated?

Jason gartner posted:

If you have run this app on an iPad I’m not sure why you would want to go back to the remote? The functions are millions times easier to get to and you have a huge screen. I don’t get it

Simply put. Now I have to think about the Wi-Fi in my house. Did it drop out. Did my phone attach to a different connection point. My friend has to load an app, or I need to buy multiple “handhelds” in the form of phone like devices anyway. Did the DCS system boot up in the proper order, that I can come home and run. I feel like an apologist here. (I love my mth stuff), but I’m hoping they have a rock solid solution on tap. Because waaahhhhh! I want to play with my toys. 

I tried the app on my phone, that didn't work well for me.  tried it on a i pad mini, and that didn't work out. So I sold my wifi and bought another remote.

I have an operational walk around layout, I spot cars at industries, build train consist's in the yard, and have to watch the road trains constantly, on my single track 300 foot main line. I have to watch the train not the remote. Usually when operating, the remote is in one hand held near my  hip, the other hand is uncoupling the cars or throwing   switches, as I walk around following the train, in sometimes a to narrow isle. 

I think the app is good for those of you that like to watch the train run around while you sit down and enjoy a beverage with good company. Which like to do sometimes.

For me a touch screen just doesn't cut it.

Folks - I posted this in the other thread on yhis topic, but since Fedex doesn’t have my package, my workday is shorter and I can think more about trains :-)

Since we are talking about toys, let me frame my example in the context of toys. Please stay with me past the next sentence. Let’s compare trains to video games that aren’t resident on a handheld device (it works. your trains aren’t on your handheld). 
In a video game you stare at the screen. Finger poised over a tactile button. Your eye sees THE GAME. Your finger is just a tool. It’s the same with model trains. You (I assume) want to enjoy what the train is doing. Your thumb is on the thumb wheel or hovered over the horn, or or or. You enjoy the train. Your thumb is a tool. In either situation, if you have to stare at the controller to do the thing, you miss the thing. Plain and simple. This isn’t a change from touching a throttle to being overwhelmed by 30 buttons. It’s the change from enjoying the train to being sucked into the screen. 

Jason gartner posted:

If you have run this app on an iPad I’m not sure why you would want to go back to the remote? The functions are millions times easier to get to and you have a huge screen. I don’t get it

If you have to ask that question, there's little to be gained by trying to answer it.

It’s technology and it isn’t going anywhere, I remember when tmcc first came out and dcs, everyone complaining about how they can’t use it and so so ..... now everyone is using them and took the time to use it and figure it out, you have to spend time with it . They make lanyards and ways to hold these devices and mounts so it’s easy. I guess being in my mid 30’s puts me at both ends of this but I love the app on an iPad. My 5 and 3 year old run them with app and can scroll through do everything and like it much more than remote. People want they’re engine to have whistle smoke and wipe their rear end but can’t adapt to a new device.

Jason gartner posted:

It’s technology and it isn’t going anywhere, I remember when tmcc first came out and dcs, everyone complaining about how they can’t use it and so so ..... now everyone is using them and took the time to use it and figure it out, you have to spend time with it . They make lanyards and ways to hold these devices and mounts so it’s easy. I guess being in my mid 30’s puts me at both ends of this but I love the app on an iPad. My 5 and 3 year old run them with app and can scroll through do everything and like it much more than remote. People want they’re engine to have whistle smoke and wipe their rear end but can’t adapt to a new device.

Jason

now you’ve hunkered down into a position. No one is saying the app doesn’t have a place. I’m 53. My video game example comes from my own life playing Nintendo golf. It’s reinforced by my adult children, one of which is a computer engineer. Sure there is stuff you can do with the app. But if you want to enjoy that burst of train smoke, wouldn’t you rather watch the train? 

While I tend to side with the "remote" folks, there is still quite a bit of looking at the remote to access some of the more obscure features.  Sure you can throttle, sound the whistle/bell, and a few other functions but beyond that you are looking at a keypad or other button to make something happen.  The remote though to me is still the best way for me.  I know there are folks that can make that smart device sing when running trains and most of them are younger than me.  LOL!

No doubt you have to look at the remote for some seldom used features, but my fingers can easily find the thumbwheel and the commonly used functions without looking at the remote.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

No doubt you have to look at the remote for some seldom used features, but my fingers can easily find the thumbwheel and the commonly used functions without looking at the remote.

I thought I said that.  LOL!

All this talking about the remote, which I have four and love, vs the the app, which I have the premier app, and love for some things (setting up routes is way easier in the app) makes me appreciate MTH even more. Have you ever used a legacy remote from Lionel? Definitely not the easiest way to run a train and enjoy it! Just saying.

MartyE posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

No doubt you have to look at the remote for some seldom used features, but my fingers can easily find the thumbwheel and the commonly used functions without looking at the remote.

I thought I said that.  LOL!

You Did! LOL!

CurtisH posted:

Have you ever used a legacy remote from Lionel? Definitely not the easiest way to run a train and enjoy it! Just saying.

All the time.  I guess its what you are used to.

I love computers and my cell phone and my Alexa. But for some reason, my WIFI/DCS doesn't work on my club layout. (The app does work for other members.) So without a remote, I can't run my engines. I have the same problem with my Lionchief app. So I strongly believe there is a roll for the specialized remote.

Who said that MTH has shut the door on a dedicated remote? WiFi and the app open up different possibilities for interaction. 

First, MTH could (and should) add an API to there app that would allow a user to attach a PS4 style gaming controller to a phone or tablet and add the tactile button to the app. This would be similar to the Nintendo switch style experience. Use the built in screen when needed and look at the big picture when needed. For demonstration purposes I already use a Bluetooth mouse attached to my Droid device so that I can operate the app without my fingers being in view over the screen.

WiFi also doesn't mean that MTH can't or won't develop a new dedicated remote to operate with the WIU. Dedicated hardware to operate over WiFi can be built and implemented into a newer DCS style remote if they so choose. WiFi (much like Bluetooth and 900MHz radio used in the DCS remote) is just a carrier of the data for the device whether that be a dedicated remote, or an app running on a smart device.

H1000 posted:

Who said that MTH has shut the door on a dedicated remote? ..................

 Mike Wolf himself stated (TCA Museum York week a few years ago) that once it's not possible to make the current remote due to parts obsolescence, he was not planning on creating a new design for one to replace it.  He pointed to a phone and said he could not justify the expense to develop new hardware when such a capable alternative that most (not all) people already have available to them (much cheaper to develop and upgrade software than hardware).

There was a lot of feedback then, as there continues to be.

The more recent announcement of a new "final run" of the current remote that did include a minor redesign to address a part that was no longer available was after the initial announcement and reaction.

Unless there has been enough backlash to change that path, the remotes will be no more once they are gone.

But I maintain, no one should rush out to buy them up, leaves more for me to create my collection of spares.

-Dave

Even if you prefer using phone control, all kinds of issues and inconveniences can arise if you're restricted to a cell phone. I use my iPhone for a lot of things, and sometimes I want to leave it set on a certain site. And sometimes I let my wife use it if she has misplaced hers (or she may even take it with her in a pinch), or if her phone has gone dead (happens a lot ).  Even things happen like this past weekend, when my phone got hijacked so my wife could use it to show friends a bunch of grandkid movies I'd made. All sorts of things can get in the way of train operations.

When any of these things happen, train operations come to a screeching halt, or can't get started, without a handheld. And of course you can't use your phone for other things if it's tied up running trains, which is a big negative to me. Even Batman knows that sometimes you need to have backup. 

H1000 posted:

Who said that MTH has shut the door on a dedicated remote? 

Mike Wolf at October York...

Dave45681 posted:

H1000 posted:

Who said that MTH has shut the door on a dedicated remote? ..................

 Mike Wolf himself stated (TCA Museum York week a few years ago) that once it's not possible to make the current remote due to parts obsolescence, he was not planning on creating a new design for one to replace it.  He pointed to a phone and said he could not justify the expense to develop new hardware when such a capable alternative that most (not all) people already have available to them (much cheaper to develop and upgrade software than hardware).

There was a lot of feedback then, as there continues to be.

The more recent announcement of a new "final run" of the current remote that did include a minor redesign to address a part that was no longer available was after the initial announcement and reaction.

Unless there has been enough backlash to change that path, the remotes will be no more once they are gone.

But I maintain, no one should rush out to buy them up, leaves more for me to create my collection of spares.

-Dave

You must not have read anything after the first line.  The app could be turned into your new remote with tactile buttons.  Back before the WIU was even a rumor, everyone thought that MTH should redesign the the DCS Remote to include new features such as the CAB2 did.  There was talk of a a larger screen with color and then eventually it should have a touch interface... all the things found in a modern smart phone of the time. 

MTH doesn't need to design new hardware to make a new DCS remote.  They simply need to include some additional code in the current app that allows the end user to use any of the 1000's add-on gaming controllers available and already being used.  Heck, MTH could even contract with one of those gaming pad developers and brand the hardware via a third party for much less cost than ever redesigning the remote.

Think outside of the box a little, the app could do more if MTH would just unleash chains on it a bit more.

H1000 posted:

Dave45681 posted:

H1000 posted:

Who said that MTH has shut the door on a dedicated remote? ..................

 Mike Wolf himself stated (TCA Museum York week a few years ago) that once it's not possible to make the current remote due to parts obsolescence, he was not planning on creating a new design for one to replace it.  He pointed to a phone and said he could not justify the expense to develop new hardware when such a capable alternative that most (not all) people already have available to them (much cheaper to develop and upgrade software than hardware).

There was a lot of feedback then, as there continues to be.

The more recent announcement of a new "final run" of the current remote that did include a minor redesign to address a part that was no longer available was after the initial announcement and reaction.

Unless there has been enough backlash to change that path, the remotes will be no more once they are gone.

But I maintain, no one should rush out to buy them up, leaves more for me to create my collection of spares.

-Dave

You must not have read anything after the first line.  The app could be turned into your new remote with tactile buttons.  Back before the WIU was even a rumor, everyone thought that MTH should redesign the the DCS Remote to include new features such as the CAB2 did.  There was talk of a a larger screen with color and then eventually it should have a touch interface... all the things found in a modern smart phone of the time. 

MTH doesn't need to design new hardware to make a new DCS remote.  They simply need to include some additional code in the current app that allows the end user to use any of the 1000's add-on gaming controllers available and already being used.  Heck, MTH could even contract with one of those gaming pad developers and brand the hardware via a third party for much less cost than ever redesigning the remote.

Think outside of the box a little, the app could do more if MTH would just unleash chains on it a bit more.

 

Nope, I read the whole thing, thanks.  But thanks for the condescending attitude!

Hopefully you are right and the controller people want to diverge into supporting model train systems as well.

They sell millions of video games, huge opportunity for return on investment.  No so much for any effort expounded in the realm of model trains.

-Dave

Jason gartner posted:

It’s technology and it isn’t going anywhere, I remember when tmcc first came out and dcs, everyone complaining about how they can’t use it and so so ..... now everyone is using them and took the time to use it and figure it out, you have to spend time with it . They make lanyards and ways to hold these devices and mounts so it’s easy. I guess being in my mid 30’s puts me at both ends of this but I love the app on an iPad. My 5 and 3 year old run them with app and can scroll through do everything and like it much more than remote. People want they’re engine to have whistle smoke and wipe their rear end but can’t adapt to a new device.

I well remember '95-'96 when TMCC came out.  My memory is completely contrary to "everyone complaining".  Hook up one wire, Run the TMCC loc.  No problem.

Now, DCS did bring on "complaining" as it was more complicated (wiring, remote) ... but that was 5-6 years later than the introduction of TMCC.