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I could not help but enter into the fun everyone has or is enjoying with the marvelous set.  Before we get into how dumb I was, I need your help to avoid being really dumb, please.   In my defense, my layout has 2 loops (80+ and 90+ Atlas)  with a good 3 feet as the shortest between 90 degree curves on the depth and about 9 feet on the width.  Pretty much Oval within and oval.   Layout is about 12.5 x 15.  

I will say, my friend and Lionel dealer will inspect and test run it with his 2 high tech gurus (probably millennials) prior to shipping.  My thoughts are as follows to expect upon unboxing:

1)  Doors and other moving parts will need to be lubricated.

2)  Something to do with a worm gear having lube that has dried out or is hardening.

3)  Wheels and rollers obviously will need to be lubed.

4)  Am I repacking any gear boxes?  Didn't look at the drive specs yet.

This is the perfect thing for me to tinker with, as I tend to enjoy these types of challenges.

 

Thanks for looking and more thanks if you respond.

Last edited by Bryant Dunivan 111417
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gunrunnerjohn posted:

PRAY!

scott.smith posted:

Sell it before it is too late.

Scott Smith

And leave you gentlemen with all the fun.  Gunrunner, it has been quite a history lesson reading your post from conception until present.  Quite honestly, your post were very informative and helped validate my reason for purchasing this fine set.  I don't think the build quality, realism and detail will ever be around again for quite some time.  I am looking forward to it being in my collection, especially to join my another standard must have "Veranda Turbine"  I am hopeful that this will be a very good experience for my layout. 

I am open to answers to my questions or points at the start of the thread.

By the way, you guys were the first to get up off the ground laughing.  Congratulations.

Wouldn't be the 1st or worst issue.  My last 3 engines resulted in 1 going back to Lionel and 2 going back to MTH.  I expect, and would be disappointed without something.  I know, "you wont be disappointed".  Beat you to it.  We move on upward and upward.  Full speed ahead, any suggestions, other than getting rid of it or etc..... would be very much appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Don’t let them Bully You!  I have this set from the beginning!  It is fantastic!  What a crowd pleaser to demonstrate !!  The only problem I had was with one of the Panagraphs !  The first time I sent it to Lionel for repair !  When they sent it back, they included a step by stem procedure to remedy the problem, if I ever had the problem again!  It happened one time after that which I was able to remedy, but never happened again!  They are a little fragile, but really fun to run!  Good luck with yours, and enjoy 😊 it!!!

Fredstrains

This is a great thread, you’ve purchased a great set, The Acela, and if you do have concerns, there a many folks here on the forum that can assist you to enjoy your new Crowd Pleaser....Congratulations.....Place Some Pictures for us to see your new Acela, and the layout it will ride the rails.....Happy Railroading 

Fredstrains posted:

Don’t let them Bully You!  I have this set from the beginning!  It is fantastic!  What a crowd pleaser to demonstrate !!  The only problem I had was with one of the Panagraphs !  The first time I sent it to Lionel for repair !  When they sent it back, they included a step by stem procedure to remedy the problem, if I ever had the problem again!  It happened one time after that which I was able to remedy, but never happened again!  They are a little fragile, but really fun to run!  Good luck with yours, and enjoy 😊 it!!!

Fredstrains

There is Light at the End of the Tunnel.....

Three possibly helpful tips:

1.  Whatever you do, don’t dislodge the pantographs when you unbox the engine or put it on the track. They are the devil’s own job to get back in place. The Lionel support webpage for this set:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...roductNumber=6-31714

links to a bunch of service tips including one on how the pantographs are attached. Re-attaching them is a job best avoided.

2.  If this set has been sealed/boxed up since manufacture, it’s quite likely the lubricant on the door opening mechanisms has deteriorated. Page 33 of the manual explains how to lube these. It’s just as well that your dealer is testing this out because to lube the mechanism the doors have to open. If the couplers and their infrared transmitters/receivers are not properly aligned they either won’t open or (more often) won’t close.

3.  Set it up first time slowly - probably a good idea to add the cars between the engines and test them one at a time to ensure you have a good infrared connection established between the engines through the cars' couplers.

Finally, READ THE MANUAL and the service tips from beginning to end.

I for one would like to know how you get on; I am thinking of taking mine out of mothballs.

Last edited by Hancock52
leapinlarry posted:

This is a great thread, you’ve purchased a great set, The Acela, and if you do have concerns, there a many folks here on the forum that can assist you to enjoy your new Crowd Pleaser....Congratulations.....Place Some Pictures for us to see your new Acela, and the layout it will ride the rails.....Happy Railroading 

Fredstrains posted:

Don’t let them Bully You!  I have this set from the beginning!  It is fantastic!  What a crowd pleaser to demonstrate !!  The only problem I had was with one of the Panagraphs !  The first time I sent it to Lionel for repair !  When they sent it back, they included a step by stem procedure to remedy the problem, if I ever had the problem again!  It happened one time after that which I was able to remedy, but never happened again!  They are a little fragile, but really fun to run!  Good luck with yours, and enjoy 😊 it!!!

Fredstrains

There is Light at the End of the Tunnel.....

I thought there would be helpful people regarding this set.  Only lacking people like me liking to buy one LOL.  I'm pretty pumped and feeling a bit of the "luck of the Irish".  I will definitely let everyone know, and I will look at @chooshoopaul for pointers.  Thank you everyone.

RickO posted:

Didn't Alex M post a video of some work on an Acela?

You may want to do a forum search or check his YouTube channel.

You could alway send him an email. He's always eager to help others out.

You're right on all counts and the threads are a mine of information about the engines (and pantographs) in particular. Here's the first one in 2016 and another last year:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-at-the-lionel-acela

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...working-on-the-acela

I’m still laughing from Guns post.

Congrats (I think) on your new set.

We got one secondhand, so maybe the kinks were worked out but ours has been pretty well behaved. Touch wood....

It’s a fantastic set. It always draws a crowd, even more so being on this side of the pond. 

Take your time connecting the cars and you’ll be fine. 

Nick

I have had an Acela set with the add on cars almost from the time they came out, and I guess like many I have always had one car that the IR never worked, so that one sits in a display case.  The set has always run like a champ, but I turned off the pantographs and the "car lean" features early on, as it seemed awkward on my max 72 radius.  The only issue I have ever had is the difficult experience in changing out a rubber tire.  The trucks have some very fine/intricate pieces that you have to be very careful with.  But otherwise it is an amazing set.

OMG!!! 2 hours to change the traction tires! 

Got everything on the track (including the add on cars) and went around the first curve and all communications with the end engine was lost 

Sliding doors lose communication on every additional curve

Pantagraphs on one unit never worked do not know why... board issue, motor issue or motor limit sensor?

tilt car mechanisms are loosing parts on the layout and do not center off.

Packed up set and put under the layout... sitting for 6 years now...

Its like buying a boat...

 

J Daddy posted:

OMG!!! 2 hours to change the traction tires! 

Got everything on the track (including the add on cars) and went around the first curve and all communications with the end engine was lost 

Sliding doors lose communication on every additional curve

Pantagraphs on one unit never worked do not know why... board issue, motor issue or motor limit sensor?

tilt car mechanisms are loosing parts on the layout and do not center off.

Packed up set and put under the layout... sitting for 6 years now...

Its like buying a boat...

 

Ah a Big hole in the water that you throw burning £50 notes into! 

Nick

Yep, and the first and last day you own it is the happiest days of having it.

On a serious note. I have toyed with the idea of rebuilding it. I need to understand why one of the pantagraphs will not work. But that would require some buying some parts that I will or will not need.

Next would be looking at changing out the IR sensors and going to Molex connectors between each car. That way the car will not have to be reset on every radius.

The doors are not really the problem with my set, they are fine. Its the tilt mechanism. Some cars do not center off correctly, or at all. they have a mind of their own, and some times they will stay tilted all the time. The tilt off switch works best here.

I may start looking at it again, but right now, I think I am looking to give it a new home.

 

Last edited by J Daddy
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I could not help but enter into the fun everyone has or is enjoying with the marvelous set.  Before we get into how dumb I was, I need your help to avoid being really dumb, please.   In my defense, my layout has 2 loops (80+ and 90+ Atlas)  with a good 3 feet as the shortest between 90 degree curves on the depth and about 9 feet on the width.  Pretty much Oval within and oval.   Layout is about 12.5 x 15.  

I will say, my friend and Lionel dealer will inspect and test run it with his 2 high tech gurus (probably millennials) prior to shipping.  My thoughts are as follows to expect upon unboxing:

1)  Doors and other moving parts will need to be lubricated.

2)  Something to do with a worm gear having lube that has dried out or is hardening.

3)  Wheels and rollers obviously will need to be lubed.

4)  Am I repacking any gear boxes?  Didn't look at the drive specs yet.

This is the perfect thing for me to tinker with, as I tend to enjoy these types of challenges.

 

Thanks for looking and more thanks if you respond.

I want to state that I contacted "Acela Fella"  prior to doing the run test.  His tips and advice were priceless.  Thanks Paul.

l was I prepared for the worst and could not be more wrong:

1)   I did the lubing and oiling as any new train.  (No problem)

2)  Next step was joining the cars and verifying IR communication. (No communication)

3)  Add one car carefully finessing the couplers and IR sensors together. I want to stress that when this is done you need to jiggle a little bit and slight rotate one care until you feel a sweet spot were it "softly clicks" to let you know you are home.  If you place a finger under the male draw bar you can actually feel the "Click".  Properly clicked, it will be very difficult to take the cars apart.    Power up.  Test for operation.  Power off.

5)  Add the next car following the above step, power off each time,  until complete.

6)  When complete, power up the transformer,  There will be no operation sound from the train, doors on cars should close, and unpowered dummy should be silent. 

Run the train around your layout and check out the operation and sounds.  Check catenary arms for proper lowering and raising.  I only had one not operating, and will tackle that.   I ran it through 90 and 80 curves without one communication error. 

People have stated that it is a most impressive set when operating properly.  That is an understatement.  It runs like a fine swiss watch with a ton of bells and whistles.

The scary part is that I purchased 2 of these sets.  I want to see them run as a pair.  Hopefully #2 will come out as nicely.  My summation is that the joining of the cars properly is the key downfall.  I was prepared to convert to tether.  Not now, at least on this set.  It is great when properly joined.  Don't give up.  Get it back out and try again.  It is a cool set. 

Good tip on joining the IR couplers but this is not a set suitable for running on a carpet layout with the fiddlesome connections, which are not meant to be dis- and re-connected often.

Only one panto not operating is about par for the course in my experience. I do know that Lionel issued a revised pantograph mechanism and PCB after the sets first shipped. I got some because mine simply stopped working at all - in fact I was getting no engine sounds at all even with just the engines connected up. But this suddenly cured itself after I disconnected the command base and accidentally ratcheted the voltage on my transformer up to the max. Go figure.

I have had other weird problems with mine that it would take too long to explain and I don’t understand what caused them anyway! However when the engines and four cars that work reliably are operating it is a real treat to see.

Still, nice to know that you got your first set working.

P.S. The cars are the finest/most detailed ever produced in O scale hands down. 

Last edited by Hancock52
Hancock52 posted:

Good tip on joining the IR couplers but this is not a set suitable for running on a carpet layout with the fiddlesome connections, which are not meant to be dis- and re-connected often.

Only one panto not operating is about par for the course in my experience. I do know that Lionel issued a revised pantograph mechanism and PCB after the sets first shipped. I got some because mine simply stopped working at all - in fact I was getting no engine sounds at all even with just the engines connected up. But this suddenly cured itself after I disconnected the command base and accidentally ratcheted the voltage on my transformer up to the max. Go figure.

I have had other weird problems with mine that it would take too long to explain and I don’t understand what caused them anyway! However when the engines and four cars that work reliably are operating it is a real treat to see.

Still, nice to know that you got your first set working.

P.S. The cars are the finest/most detailed ever produced in O scale hands down. 

Definitely right about "no carpet"  One commonality on successful operation, don't futz with the connections once made.  Leave on layout.  I can see that.  I will reiterate, it is the finest/ most detailed produced O scale.  In addition, the drivetrain is silky smooth.  It hums.

The Acela is extremely attractive to me.  Would love to grab one of the distressed sets and give it the same treatment given to my other three Lionel engines.  Remove all electronics, install Kadees and two rail it.

Early auto engineering philosophy; "If you do not  have a certain feature it can not fail and your product will be less  expensive".

c.sam posted:

Let's see some photos of your traversing the gentle curves you have please?

I too would love to have this set but the future layout space is quite limited to 084 and less. Have not seen one run in person but hoping to someday...

I will shoot a video tonight.  Never uploaded a video, but ready to give it a shot.  Always excited to show trains and how they might work for others.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I could not help but enter into the fun everyone has or is enjoying with the marvelous set.  Before we get into how dumb I was, I need your help to avoid being really dumb, please.   In my defense, my layout has 2 loops (80+ and 90+ Atlas)  with a good 3 feet as the shortest between 90 degree curves on the depth and about 9 feet on the width.  Pretty much Oval within and oval.   Layout is about 12.5 x 15.  

I will say, my friend and Lionel dealer will inspect and test run it with his 2 high tech gurus (probably millennials) prior to shipping.  My thoughts are as follows to expect upon unboxing:

1)  Doors and other moving parts will need to be lubricated.

2)  Something to do with a worm gear having lube that has dried out or is hardening.

3)  Wheels and rollers obviously will need to be lubed.

4)  Am I repacking any gear boxes?  Didn't look at the drive specs yet.

This is the perfect thing for me to tinker with, as I tend to enjoy these types of challenges.

 

Thanks for looking and more thanks if you respond.

I want to state that I contacted "Acela Fella"  prior to doing the run test.  His tips and advice were priceless.  Thanks Paul.

l was I prepared for the worst and could not be more wrong:

1)   I did the lubing and oiling as any new train.  (No problem)

2)  Next step was joining the cars and verifying IR communication. (No communication)

3)  Add one car carefully finessing the couplers and IR sensors together. I want to stress that when this is done you need to jiggle a little bit and slight rotate one care until you feel a sweet spot were it "softly clicks" to let you know you are home.  If you place a finger under the male draw bar you can actually feel the "Click".  Properly clicked, it will be very difficult to take the cars apart.    Power up.  Test for operation.  Power off.

5)  Add the next car following the above step, power off each time,  until complete.

6)  When complete, power up the transformer,  There will be no operation sound from the train, doors on cars should close, and unpowered dummy should be silent. 

Run the train around your layout and check out the operation and sounds.  Check catenary arms for proper lowering and raising.  I only had one not operating, and will tackle that.   I ran it through 90 and 80 curves without one communication error. 

People have stated that it is a most impressive set when operating properly.  That is an understatement.  It runs like a fine swiss watch with a ton of bells and whistles.

The scary part is that I purchased 2 of these sets.  I want to see them run as a pair.  Hopefully #2 will come out as nicely.  My summation is that the joining of the cars properly is the key downfall.  I was prepared to convert to tether.  Not now, at least on this set.  It is great when properly joined.  Don't give up.  Get it back out and try again.  It is a cool set. 

Good deal!!

You have followed the protocol with success. I have successfully operated mine with all of the features functioning on tubular 0-72 curves provided that the track work is good and crazy configurations are avoided (See, also, Lionel Nation 2). Most samples operate (or can be made to operate) properly. Just takes a bit of patience ... which is always rewarded in the end. At some point, those few who suffer from ADS (ACELA Derangement Syndrome) might consider refraining from posting their unhelpful ad hominem remarks whenever the topic of ACELA comes up.  

Have fun!

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck
Bob Bubeck posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I could not help but enter into the fun everyone has or is enjoying with the marvelous set.  Before we get into how dumb I was, I need your help to avoid being really dumb, please.   In my defense, my layout has 2 loops (80+ and 90+ Atlas)  with a good 3 feet as the shortest between 90 degree curves on the depth and about 9 feet on the width.  Pretty much Oval within and oval.   Layout is about 12.5 x 15.  

I will say, my friend and Lionel dealer will inspect and test run it with his 2 high tech gurus (probably millennials) prior to shipping.  My thoughts are as follows to expect upon unboxing:

1)  Doors and other moving parts will need to be lubricated.

2)  Something to do with a worm gear having lube that has dried out or is hardening.

3)  Wheels and rollers obviously will need to be lubed.

4)  Am I repacking any gear boxes?  Didn't look at the drive specs yet.

This is the perfect thing for me to tinker with, as I tend to enjoy these types of challenges.

 

Thanks for looking and more thanks if you respond.

I want to state that I contacted "Acela Fella"  prior to doing the run test.  His tips and advice were priceless.  Thanks Paul.

l was I prepared for the worst and could not be more wrong:

1)   I did the lubing and oiling as any new train.  (No problem)

2)  Next step was joining the cars and verifying IR communication. (No communication)

3)  Add one car carefully finessing the couplers and IR sensors together. I want to stress that when this is done you need to jiggle a little bit and slight rotate one care until you feel a sweet spot were it "softly clicks" to let you know you are home.  If you place a finger under the male draw bar you can actually feel the "Click".  Properly clicked, it will be very difficult to take the cars apart.    Power up.  Test for operation.  Power off.

5)  Add the next car following the above step, power off each time,  until complete.

6)  When complete, power up the transformer,  There will be no operation sound from the train, doors on cars should close, and unpowered dummy should be silent. 

Run the train around your layout and check out the operation and sounds.  Check catenary arms for proper lowering and raising.  I only had one not operating, and will tackle that.   I ran it through 90 and 80 curves without one communication error. 

People have stated that it is a most impressive set when operating properly.  That is an understatement.  It runs like a fine swiss watch with a ton of bells and whistles.

The scary part is that I purchased 2 of these sets.  I want to see them run as a pair.  Hopefully #2 will come out as nicely.  My summation is that the joining of the cars properly is the key downfall.  I was prepared to convert to tether.  Not now, at least on this set.  It is great when properly joined.  Don't give up.  Get it back out and try again.  It is a cool set. 

Good deal!!

You have followed the protocol with success. I have successfully operated mine with all of the features functioning on tubular 0-72 curves provided that the track work is good and crazy configurations are avoided (See, also, Lionel Nation 2). Most samples operate (or can be made to operate) properly. Just takes a bit of patience ... which is always rewarded in the end. At some point, those few who suffer from ADS (ACELA Disorder Syndrome) might consider refraining from posting their unhelpful ad hominem remarks whenever the topic of ACELA comes up.  

Have fun!

Bob

To take it one step further.  If anyone is depressed at looking at their non-functioning investments, I will be more than happy to accept donations.  I would even cover the shipping.  These sets are great and can be on layouts with a little work and a fair amount of patience.  Never give up, and keep the faith.

Hancock52 posted:

I’m very glad to see interest in this set revived, although I have little hope of Lionel issuing a Legacy version. 

BTW, I won’t be donating any of mine to anybody. Instead I will send the problem components to Alex M. to see what he can do to make them work!

That's the spirit.  I'm glad you are going to send to Alex.  I don't see them reissuing myself.  The current ones can be made to work, and reissues will probably lack some of the features.

HANCOCK52:

The "tilt" feature was on in the video, but it only works when the consist is above 25 scale miles per hour.

Since Lionel does not have a speed readout on the CAB-2, it is anyone's guess as to speed.

After many hours of testing, because the way the sensors on the cars work, the set works best on 72 curves, and does not need or work on the 108 outside curves.

choochoopaul posted:

HANCOCK52:

The "tilt" feature was on in the video, but it only works when the consist is above 25 scale miles per hour.

Since Lionel does not have a speed readout on the CAB-2, it is anyone's guess as to speed.

After many hours of testing, because the way the sensors on the cars work, the set works best on 72 curves, and does not need or work on the 108 outside curves.

All very interesting - thanks for the insight! 👍

Bob Bubeck posted:

Bryant: "I am looking forward to it being in my collection, especially to join my another standard must have "Veranda Turbine"  ..."

Oh, by the way, I am blessed with one of these (the original die cast TMCC Lionel version), too. The addition of a Veranda to your roster is a moral imperative. 

Bob

As long as we are talking about the good ol' days let me add that the Veranda is a must have, several orders of magnitude better than any MTH version and my main wish list candidate for Vision Line treatment. Some hope of that (like a Legacy Acela), however:  it was manufactured in Korea so I expect the excellent body tooling is tied up there somewhere. 

Fortunately they come up at auction fairly regularly, which is how/where I got mine. 

Hancock52 posted:
Bob Bubeck posted:

Bryant: "I am looking forward to it being in my collection, especially to join my another standard must have "Veranda Turbine"  ..."

Oh, by the way, I am blessed with one of these (the original die cast TMCC Lionel version), too. The addition of a Veranda to your roster is a moral imperative. 

Bob

As long as we are talking about the good ol' days let me add that the Veranda is a must have, several orders of magnitude better than any MTH version and my main wish list candidate for Vision Line treatment. Some hope of that (like a Legacy Acela), however:  it was manufactured in Korea so I expect the excellent body tooling is tied up there somewhere. 

Fortunately they come up at auction fairly regularly, which is how/where I got mine. 

The original Veranda Turbine and the Acela may be imitated down the road, too much cost to be duplicated.  I will have to put a post asking for members choices  of 1 or 2 iconic MTH pieces.

I've seen reference to this tool before but never inquired whether any copies are available as it appears to be handmade.

In any case, I wonder if the alternative of wired connections between the locos and cars in place of the infrared transmitters/receivers is a better solution for those of us who can't leave the set on the tracks all the the time? I have read elsewhere on this Forum that the connection is basically two wires but have never gone into it in detail - in particular whether there is anyone who offers the service of doing the conversion.

I've had a couple of really very odd problems with the stock couplers, which I won't go into detail about here. A wired connection would be of interest to me.

Hancock52 posted:

I've seen reference to this tool before but never inquired whether any copies are available as it appears to be handmade.

In any case, I wonder if the alternative of wired connections between the locos and cars in place of the infrared transmitters/receivers is a better solution for those of us who can't leave the set on the tracks all the the time? I have read elsewhere on this Forum that the connection is basically two wires but have never gone into it in detail - in particular whether there is anyone who offers the service of doing the conversion.

I've had a couple of really very odd problems with the stock couplers, which I won't go into detail about here. A wired connection would be of interest to me.

Your right about the 2 wire fix.  I was going there, and even bought the Molex Micro-fit connectors.  When I received the set and coupled them properly, worked perfectly.  Paul mentioned the tool during a phone conversation.  I was not sure by his description.  This is the tool.  It is a tool for more convenience.

The IR sensors work flawlessly if properly connected together.  They got a "bad rap".

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
Hancock52 posted:

I've seen reference to this tool before but never inquired whether any copies are available as it appears to be handmade.

In any case, I wonder if the alternative of wired connections between the locos and cars in place of the infrared transmitters/receivers is a better solution for those of us who can't leave the set on the tracks all the the time? I have read elsewhere on this Forum that the connection is basically two wires but have never gone into it in detail - in particular whether there is anyone who offers the service of doing the conversion.

I've had a couple of really very odd problems with the stock couplers, which I won't go into detail about here. A wired connection would be of interest to me.

Your right about the 2 wire fix.  I was going there, and even bought the Molex Micro-fit connectors.  When I received the set and coupled them properly, worked perfectly.  Paul mentioned the tool during a phone conversation.  I was not sure by his description.  This is the tool.  It is a tool for more convenience.

The IR sensors work flawlessly if properly connected together.  They got a "bad rap".

Modifying the linkages with two-wire connections would be a help in running ACELA on less than great track work (say, such as one might find on a modular layout). As built, the 3-pack add-ons were assembled with a alternative "improved" IR sensor coupler clip. I personally prefer the original design and had the modified couplers switched out for those of the first design. I have always used the side of an appropriately size screw driver or stick in a fashion similar to Paul's to lock the IR couplers together. I agree that the IR sensor couplers function just fine if one's track work is true and if the entire outfit is left assembled on the layout until it is intended to re-box the train. Contained on this thread are enough information, testimony, and new video of ACELA running flawlessly to firmly lay to rest the snarky comments that have generally passed as 'wisdom' on this subject.

Have fun!

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck
Bob Bubeck posted:

Modifying the linkages with two-wire connections would be a help in running ACELA on less than great track work (say, such as one might find on a modular layout).

As built, the 3-pack add-ons were assembled with a alternative "improved" IR sensor coupler clip. I personally prefer the original design and had the modified couplers switched out for those of the first design.

I have always used the side of an appropriately size screw driver or stick in a fashion similar to Paul's to lock the IR couplers together. I agree that the IR sensor couplers function just fine if one's track work is true and if the entire outfit is left assembled on the layout until it is intended to re-box the train. Contained on this thread are enough information, testimony, and new video of ACELA running flawlessly to firmly lay to rest the snarky comments that have generally passed as 'wisdom' on this subject.

Have fun!

Bob

Well, I’d like to agree with the last comment and hopefully will when I next put this set on the rails.

I never heard before about an improved IR coupler being issued for the add on set. Am learning something new every day .  .  .

What exactly does the tool do? Support the bottom coupler because it drops too easy when the tab gets hit by the slot side while railing? Or to simply shift it into alignment because the car spacing is so close.

 I'm sorry but the pro vs con of the units are even spelled out by this thread. IR issues, couplings, and the track/IR alignments. Others too. From leaning and sticking there, to doors that wouldn't open, others that wouldn't shut. I.e. there were an awful lot of folks that simply didn't care for it's peculiarities.  It doesn't mean it is awul; just that some folk didn't want to be dependent on sticks or doing things differently than from other locos.

  My old hobby was air cooled VWs.  Not for everyone; they require more regular maintance and oil changes. Americans didn't really like those VW "POSs"... but I found them to be the most reliable vehicles I ever owned... always starting when too cold for the EFI to even go rich/ retard timing enough to start.

It worked for me because I was willing to put in that bit of extra effort others were not. I can't fault folks for not wanting to do these little things I saw as "nothing". Now, how many times have you lashed the valves on your car this centrury to make sure you get to work?

  Same thing. I see it as "nothing" you see it as a pita

It's one of the all time neatest model trains made, but it's not for the light hearted and takes a little more care and effort to really enjoy it.  Be glad your abilities come easy

Adriatic posted:

What exactly does the tool do? Support the bottom coupler because it drops too easy when the tab gets hit by the slot side while railing? Or to simply shift it into alignment because the car spacing is so close.

 I'm sorry but the pro vs con of the units are even spelled out by this thread. IR issues, couplings, and the track/IR alignments. Others too. From leaning and sticking there, to doors that wouldn't open, others that wouldn't shut. I.e. there were an awful lot of folks that simply didn't care for it's peculiarities.  It doesn't mean it is awul; just that some folk didn't want to be dependent on sticks or doing things differently than from other locos.

  My old hobby was air cooled VWs.  Not for everyone; they require more regular maintance and oil changes. Americans didn't really like those VW "POSs"... but I found them to be the most reliable vehicles I ever owned... always starting when too cold for the EFI to even go rich/ retard timing enough to start.

It worked for me because I was willing to put in that bit of extra effort others were not. I can't fault folks for not wanting to do these little things I saw as "nothing". Now, how many times have you lashed the valves on your car this centrury to make sure you get to work?

  Same thing. I see it as "nothing" you see it as a pita

It's one of the all time neatest model trains made, but it's not for the light hearted and takes a little more care and effort to really enjoy it.  Be glad your abilities come easy

I think you stated it perfectly.  Made room last night to bring the 2nd of my Acela adventures to life.  Dummy on #1 lost catenary action.  Will pull the shell.  I suspect I will need to replace the Catenary PCB with the upgraded one they released after rollout back in the day.  Ran 1 hour last night with no IR loss.

c.sam posted:

Let's see some photos of your traversing the gentle curves you have please?

I too would love to have this set but the future layout space is quite limited to 084 and less. Have not seen one run in person but hoping to someday...

A couple of videos.  You can see the tilt as the passenger cars traverse curves.  Very subtle

Attachments

Videos (2)
IMG_2458
IMG_2459
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I think it was just the cars.  Passenger comfort before Engineer comfort.  Lionel would have been out of the room if they tried to do that with the engines also.  You can see the tilt better as the car is coming out of the curve when it is righting itself.  Pretty cool, huh?

You are correct about the complexity of enabling tilt in the locomotives. There are limits. As one having input into the design of the Lionel ACELA, Neil Young wanted to (even!) have operating windshield wipers on the engine units, but one just has to stop somewhere. The tilt is somewhat more obvious on 0-72 curves and is actuated by sensors with the front (nose) truck of each end unit. Please remember that both the real ACELA and the model which it closely mimics tilt ~3 degrees. The design team at Lionel was attempting to go all out for realism on ACELA and the resulting complexity is why the outfit requires a bit more patience (and skill) on the part of its owner. 

Neat stuff.

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I could not help but enter into the fun everyone has or is enjoying with the marvelous set.  Before we get into how dumb I was, I need your help to avoid being really dumb, please.   In my defense, my layout has 2 loops (80+ and 90+ Atlas)  with a good 3 feet as the shortest between 90 degree curves on the depth and about 9 feet on the width.  Pretty much Oval within and oval.   Layout is about 12.5 x 15.  

I will say, my friend and Lionel dealer will inspect and test run it with his 2 high tech gurus (probably millennials) prior to shipping.  My thoughts are as follows to expect upon unboxing:

1)  Doors and other moving parts will need to be lubricated.

2)  Something to do with a worm gear having lube that has dried out or is hardening.

3)  Wheels and rollers obviously will need to be lubed.

4)  Am I repacking any gear boxes?  Didn't look at the drive specs yet.

This is the perfect thing for me to tinker with, as I tend to enjoy these types of challenges.

 

Thanks for looking and more thanks if you respond.

Fully finished testing #1 last night.  Not bad on what needs to be done:

1)  4 of the doors on the add on set or not operating.  Flashing lights indicate fault.  Motors probably on a dead spot or need of fresh lube.  Will apply 9 vdc directly to motor (with wires disconnected from control board) to verify motor status.  Then clean and lube all gear assemblies.  Should not be too tough.  Most work should be in removing the shells. 

2)  Dummy catenary arms not working at all.  No motor noise either.  When out of the box, one worked and I fiddled with the other and it started to function also.  Lubed pivot points, and both now dead.  I will do the motor test, and confirm suspicion that I need to swap out the catenary control board with the updated (fix) one.

I will unbox number 2 and do the inspection procedure.  When I determine what parts are needed for both I will place my order with Lionel parts to take advantage of the $10.00 flat rate shipping.  After that, pure enjoyment.  I am looking forward to running both in opposite directions on my 2 outer loops.  Video to follow.

When this is all done, I will be writing a bit of a tips and tricks page with the draft going to Choochoopaul for his experienced sage additions and notes.  I think if there was a procedure available, it would help everyone who owns this "much too maligned" set.  One thing for sure is: "when joining couplers the plastic IR connectors and draw bars must be aligned on top of each other".  If one is off a little bit, it will drive one nuts.  More to follow.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Fully finished testing #1 last night.  Not bad on what needs to be done:

1)  4 of the doors on the add on set or not operating.  Flashing lights indicate fault.  Motors probably on a dead spot or need of fresh lube.  Will apply 9 vdc directly to motor (with wires disconnected from control board) to verify motor status.  Then clean and lube all gear assemblies.  Should not be too tough.  Most work should be in removing the shells. 

2)  Dummy catenary arms not working at all.  No motor noise either.  When out of the box, one worked and I fiddled with the other and it started to function also.  Lubed pivot points, and both now dead.  I will do the motor test, and confirm suspicion that I need to swap out the catenary control board with the updated (fix) one . . .

This sounds exactly like my own experience. I'll be interested to know what you find on making the battery/motor test on doors as well as pantographs. As reported in my earlier post, my own pantograph issue was accidentally resolved by an unintentional high voltage jolt from the transformer I was using (then a Z-4000). Obviously I can't recommend that as a repair technique but after so many years in the box it would not be surprising if the motor/gear assembly was a little sticky. 

FWIW, I had some correspondence with Jon Z. back in the day after I had got these sets (X-mas 2010) and on digging it out I see that I reported to him that the pantograph operation was more consistent using a CAB1 and its base station than my CAB2 setup. I've always wondered exactly how Lionel"ported" the Acela settings that are built into Legacy/CAB2 setup and whether using a pure TMCC control was better.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I could not help but enter into the fun everyone has or is enjoying with the marvelous set.  Before we get into how dumb I was, I need your help to avoid being really dumb, please.   In my defense, my layout has 2 loops (80+ and 90+ Atlas)  with a good 3 feet as the shortest between 90 degree curves on the depth and about 9 feet on the width.  Pretty much Oval within and oval.   Layout is about 12.5 x 15.  

I will say, my friend and Lionel dealer will inspect and test run it with his 2 high tech gurus (probably millennials) prior to shipping.  My thoughts are as follows to expect upon unboxing:

1)  Doors and other moving parts will need to be lubricated.

2)  Something to do with a worm gear having lube that has dried out or is hardening.

3)  Wheels and rollers obviously will need to be lubed.

4)  Am I repacking any gear boxes?  Didn't look at the drive specs yet.

This is the perfect thing for me to tinker with, as I tend to enjoy these types of challenges.

 

Thanks for looking and more thanks if you respond.

Fully finished testing #1 last night.  Not bad on what needs to be done:

1)  4 of the doors on the add on set or not operating.  Flashing lights indicate fault.  Motors probably on a dead spot or need of fresh lube.  Will apply 9 vdc directly to motor (with wires disconnected from control board) to verify motor status.  Then clean and lube all gear assemblies.  Should not be too tough.  Most work should be in removing the shells. 

2)  Dummy catenary arms not working at all.  No motor noise either.  When out of the box, one worked and I fiddled with the other and it started to function also.  Lubed pivot points, and both now dead.  I will do the motor test, and confirm suspicion that I need to swap out the catenary control board with the updated (fix) one.

I will unbox number 2 and do the inspection procedure.  When I determine what parts are needed for both I will place my order with Lionel parts to take advantage of the $10.00 flat rate shipping.  After that, pure enjoyment.  I am looking forward to running both in opposite directions on my 2 outer loops.  Video to follow.

When this is all done, I will be writing a bit of a tips and tricks page with the draft going to Choochoopaul for his experienced sage additions and notes.  I think if there was a procedure available, it would help everyone who owns this "much too maligned" set.  One thing for sure is: "when joining couplers the plastic IR connectors and draw bars must be aligned on top of each other".  If one is off a little bit, it will drive one nuts.  More to follow.

Number 2, Catanary arms perfect.  All doors on Cafe don't open.  1 door on 2 cars not opening.  Not bad for 15 years in a box.  No rush.  Fun project to do in the kitchen after dinners.  Really neat to run 2 at the same time.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Number 2, Catanary arms perfect.  All doors on Cafe don't open.  1 door on 2 cars not opening.  Not bad for 15 years in a box.  No rush.  Fun project to do in the kitchen after dinners.  Really neat to run 2 at the same time.

That's great, you have discovered that it functions just as bad at 15 years old as it did when they were brand new.

Scott Smith

scott.smith posted:

That's great, you have discovered that it functions just as bad at 15 years old as it did when they were brand new.

Scott Smith

OK, pretty hard to resist that conclusion! But let’s rise to the challenge - or those of us who are exceptionally stubborn will. 

I found that with a couple of cars it was necessary to lock out the opening door function on one side to prevent it or the other side from tiggering the blinking lights. Not a solution of course but allowed the car to be run. 

I don’t think that anyone ever established that this was a software problem as opposed to an IR signal or mechanical one. 

We will know after I tune these problems out.  Some of the doors grunted during movement.  Oil on the worm took care of it.  Also a door or 2 started working.  Struggling without fresh lube.  Oiled, viola, perfect.  Only bummer is that shells need to come off when door is closed.  I will summarize and detail procedures for people who want to give it one more try.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

We will know after I tune these problems out.  Some of the doors grunted during movement.  Oil on the worm took care of it.  Also a door or 2 started working.  Struggling without fresh lube.  Oiled, viola, perfect.  Only bummer is that shells need to come off when door is closed.  I will summarize and detail procedures for people who want to give it one more try.

I'm sure you'll do this anyway but knowing exactly which cars show problems, and how many out of the total you have actually have been made to work without replacing original components (especially the electronics),  would probably help the likes of me. 

Last edited by Hancock52

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