K-Line Aluminum Pass. Cars??

I believe that the K-Line aluminum car tooling ended up going to Kader when they bought out the factory that was producing the K-Line by Lionel products. 

There was a rumor that the tooling was purchased by Atlas, but I don't know that for a fact.

While I still purchase the 21" cars when they are priced at under $100, the Golden Gate Depot current generation of aluminum cars are far superior in nearly every aspect.  The cars are lighter, more accurate and have nicer finishes and details. 

For the average modeler, K-Line did indeed make some very nice aluminum cars.  I personally owned two set of 15" cars (Reading and B&O).  I remember that with my sets, the car lighting would be pretty dim unless I really cranked up the power, something I don't do on my conventional layout.  Had I kept the K-Line cars, I would have replaced the original lighting with LEDs.

Since we're on the 3RS sub-forum, the only truely prototypical green and black metal Reading passenger cars that I have seen (I don't know if GGD has offered any?) are the  brass ones offered by SGL.  These cars were semi-streamline cars known as "turtleback blimps" and were re-built by the Reading from PRM coaches.  SGL offered two different five car sets, for the "Schuylkill" and "King Coal" named trains.  They also offered two car add-on sets.  

The SGL cars were made from original drawings and are not the typical ones offered by L, M, or K, where they take/took generic cars and paint them in specific railroad colors.  Five car SGL sets, when they can be found, usually fetch about $1000 per set.   These passenger cars are 18" in length, but require O-72 curves (hence, I'm looking forward to my layout rebuild so that I can run my set!)  I'm also looking for a two car set.

Regarding the cost of aluminum cars, they just seem to get more and more expensive to make.  GGD will, hopefully, be shipping their B&O Columbian cars (coaches only) in the next couple of weeks.  The price for these cars are about $800 for the four car set.  While expensive, the GGD cars will also be prototypically correct.

Jim

Only thing with the K-Line cars,some had stream lighting. These pulled a lot of power and needed a bit of alteration for command mode (dimming with a diode in series). I would highly recommend converting these to LED lighting.

Dale H

Several Yorks ago I collared a Bachmann guy about the K-Line aluminum cars.  (Kader is Bachmann's principal China builder, I'm told.)  He commented that they ran a cost estimate on the product.  The cars would carry a price tag in excess of $200 each if done ala K-Line's final effort, he said.  They could not justify it in the then-current market, even as a 'premium' (Spectrum-ish) product.  The market/economy is no better now then it was then...even though there's plenty of spin out there insisting otherwise().

Ergo, I wouldn't look for the return of these benchmark cars any time soon.  Which is why I've been quick to grab any I might admire while they're around in decent-to-new condition. 

For me, we're talking the 15" cars....which look proportionally best traversing my layout (IMHO, of course) having O-72 min. curves.  When I talked to Atlas and MTH about a K-Line-esque 15" passenger car, they were quick to dismiss the idea.  Atlas is investing in the full scale market...although their Industrial Rail division is more traditionally sized.  MTH said that their old 15" aluminum cars were outpaced by the advent of the longer ABS/plastic cars, so you'll never see the shorty aluminums from them again....period.

Aristo/RMT?  Doubt it.  Kader owns the tooling!....Quo Vadis?

K-Line aluminum passenger cars.....R.I.P., and thanks for the flash in the market pan!

KD

While I have a couple of sets of the new GGD cars, I still really like the K-Line 21" cars.  I am not sure if the GGD cars are lighter, because I can pull more K-Line 21" cars with the same motive power than the GGD cars.  Perhaps the K-Line scale cars track better than the GGD cars?

In any event, although the K-Line cars are somewhat "generic" in their details, particularly with regard to side skirting and window arrangements, they have a look that cannot be beat.  I actually prefer the shinier finish on the K-Line unpainted Budd cars (California Zephyr, PRR Congressional, etc.) to the GGD cars' duller finish.  The K-Line finish may be a bit too shiny, but in the right light it just looks more prototypically accurate than the finish on the GGD cars (which is so dull that it actually looks like plastic from a distance).

The demand for the K-Line cars seems to still be high.  As a result, the K-Line scale passenger cars have held their value very well, in fact, depending on the road name, they are right up there with the retail on the GGD cars.

Just my opinions, of course...

I have quite a few of the 21" K-Line passenger cars.....some 18" cars too.  While they may be somewhat generic, they are still some of the best ever produced.  If an aftermarket window insert was made that simulated the gasket and, when appropriate, window dividers, then the K-Line cars would be right up there detail wise (not counting the underbelly).  The finish of the fluted versions in my opinion is just about right for a new out of the shop car.  They just plain look like they are made of metal....there is something about that metal look over the plastic look.  I will agree with Jonathan that the Atlas cars take the prize but their finish does not reflect like metal....thus they still look like plastic to me.  Perhaps if a chrome finish were applied slightly dulled down....??  I seem to recall that the first run or two of GGD lightweights were missing certain details that many forum members went back and added.  The K-line cars had those roof top details.....  Anyway, I feel fortunate to have my K-Line cars AND especially the Amtrak Superliners as well as the Santa Fe El Capitan Hi-Levels which I feel may not be reproduced for a very long time if ever....even if they are not completely accurate.

Thanks,

Alan

Now you have gone and done it!  I am obsessing over my set of K-Line 21" El Capitan cars.  However, as a hi-railer, I am bothered by my "club lounge No. 575."  Of course there are no windows in the roof, but the illustration in my original 2005 catalog shows what appears to be a chair car with a strange interior insert while my actual 575 is identical to the diner.  Did any sets really come with a lounge car (at least a lounge car interior).  Have any of you had the courage to try milling windows into the curved portion of the roof?  I am thinking I could settle for Lionel's version of a similar car (included with a sleeper--gulp--in 6-15315 2 pak) in order to get the overhead windows even though the spacing is incorrect and the lower windows seem too tall).  Of course, much of Santa Fe's advertising of that time highlighted the hi-level lounge.  It just bugs me that everything is really close to scale, but a diner is not a "Hi-level Club Lounge."

Otherwise, I love those shiny beasties.

Don't let it bug you too much.  If K-Line had tried to get it all perfect, the price would have been through the roof.  As it is, they provided buckets of passenger cars for those of us who cannot remember a window arrangement from here to the kitchen.

i should have laid in more of those Hi- Level cars.  Two for $150, and I could sell the trucks for more than they cost new!

I agree.  Wish I had cornered the market then.  Anyhow, I shall be meeting with a friend with a fantastic machine shop about milling in some extra windows into my second diner.  So, I guess it is still bugging me--so close, yet so far!

AH YES!!  Got me going again on those K-line passenger cars.  Larry, if you find that you can get your machine shop to do the modifications, I would like to know the details.  In the meantime, here are a few pictures of the ATSF Hi-levels in my passenger station train shed...

Alan

What a way to begin my Friday.  Those have to be the most photogenic passenger cars ever conceived.  My morning coffee has never tasted so good.  Thanks for the pix.

Great Larry....glad I added that extra "flavor" to your morning java!  Please let me know what is involved in getting those windows put in that diner.  I have a couple extra ones and would be willing to try on one of them....

Alan

Yes! I like those k-line aluminum cars!

Larry,

I had the same thought a while back.  I believe that if you look at the window arrangements, you might be better off using a chair car shell rather than a diner (you could change the car number to be correct for a lounge car, and also change the interior from an existing lounge car).  The chair car window arrangement appears to be closer to that of the lounge car (the diner is a bit different).

My thought was to use an extra chair car and have the extra windows cut out above the existing windows in order to simulate the lounge car window arrangement.  I was thinking of contacting O.K. Engines about this since it is my understanding that they cut custom window arrangements on Budd aluminum shells.

I cut windows all the time in blank aluminum extrusions.  You need to be aware of what awaits:

Unless you have a very good friend in the business, this kind of stuff can cost over a hundred bucks an hour.  The first step is a fixture - for your project it will have to be two fixtures; one to hold the body upright for the top cuts, another for the finishing side cuts.  That is a minimum of three hours.  I made mine out of wood, but it took several attempts to get it just right.

Once the body is securely held it can be cut.  But the cut lines either have to be laid out or a computer program mustbe written.  Minimum another hour.

Cutting can be done in less than an hour if you are doing it by hand.  It is not risk- free, but with care you can get it right on the very first blank.  I have only trashed two blanks, and I bet I have cut a dozen.  Use a 1/8"end mill and lots of green cutting fluid, and always cut so the cutter tends to pull toward the center of the window.  Counter-clockwise.

And for your project, remember that when done you will have lost a lot of structural integrity.

Now you will have just shy of $700 in the project, and can add windows and reassemble. Surely there is a better way?  If you have your own end mill, this can be very satisfying as a hobby, but otherwise I would wait for Sunset.  They are surely coming, unless the Chinese decide they want living wages.

I agree entirely, except I do have the extra diner and not an extra chair car.  I wondered about OK, but I have a "friend" who might enjoy the challenge after a bit of buttering up.  Anyway that is the plan.

Larry, I have 3 El Cap chair cars that I wish to convert to Lounge Cars.

If we pool our resources, the cost for design, tooling, jigs, etc. will drop considerably.

I bet we could attract other O Gaugers and have a large run that would make economic sense for all.

Please count me in if you decide to proceed with the project.

Bill

Somebody on here posted a list of all the Atlas reefers that have been made,,,is there

a listing of all the K-Line aluminum passenger cars made...roadnames, coach, baggage, etc?  What the heck, how about also a list of all the heavywieghts, too?

I bet we could attract other O Gaugers and have a large run that would make economic sense for all.

That's kind of what I meant by waiting.  When Sunset does these cars, I am sure they will do the one of which you speak.  Probably $300, and all you have to do is put it on the track.

if you want to rush it a bit, find out how many deposits you can get, and see if Scott is interested in bumping this project.

from Scott:

Our factory is working on the FP7s and Santa Fe Super Chief Cars, to be delivered in late October.

coloradohirailer....yes, if you go to www.legacykline.com.  Enjoy!

Alan

The single level 21" vista has a nice set of windows shown below.

Love the pictures of the K-Line cars and your train shed Alan.

I miss K-Line.

Gerry

Thank you Gerry....I agree, K-line produced some really nice models.  Many of them compete favorably to current production. 

Alan

Just for "fun"?, I just paged through 50 pages of K-Line auctions (more on there) that

I hadn't looked at for these cars for some time.  They look like they have actually

appreciated, even considerably, in price from what you could have bought some for soon after the compamy's failure, and one thing has not changed.  These came in three lengths, 15", 18", and 21", and a lot of auctions on there still carefully avoid listing the length.  I remember often having to email.  Neither my friend, for whom I was looking for specific cars, nor I ever found everything we wanted, and I gave up and went off on another tangent.  I can say, that like the big two, K-Line made an

awful lot of stuff I did/do not want.  But they definitely had some coups that won't be

forgotten.

"Bob2",

Any idea how many El Cap deposits we will need to generate in order to get Scott's(Sunset) attention?

An ATSF El Cap train would be a great follow up to Scott's Super Chief train that is on his production schedule.

Yes, I would prefer to merely "put the car on the track" and not get involved in

changing out the K-Line El Cap cars.

thanks,

Bill

Here is a shot of my streamliner display.  The 15 inch K Line cars are the New Haven.

Baltimore & Ohio, Pennsy Fleet of Modernism, SP Daylight, Rio Grande, and Great Northern.The Great Northerns are perhaps the most beautiful cars I own. My NYC set is on the layout and not in the photo.

I have extra SPs/

Lew Schneider

They say every man has his price.  First I would check to see if the El Cap and Super Chief cars are not the same - by the time the bi- level cars arrived there was a bit of standardization going on.  Not sure, but I think I rode in the car you want on the Coast Starlight a few years back.  Free wine and cheese!

Then, when you are sure no production is currently planned, find out how many folk want what you want, and how many of them are willing to front the bucks.  Then call Scott. He will talk to you, I am sure.

I was thinking of contacting O.K. Engines about this since it is my understanding that they cut custom window arrangements on Budd aluminum shells.

Yes they will.  They also have standard Budd plans they use to cut windows from.  I have 3 Seaboard Budd passenger car bodies I have purchased from them.  Mine were done from existing plans, but you can send them a drawing to show them precisely where you want your windows.  I think just the 21" car body extrusion will run about $50.  You can also get the car body without windows cut for $15/foot.

I made my own floor, ends, and end doors, but purchased their clear window piece when I bought the bodies.

Their latest catalog was emailed to me in a Microsoft Publisher document format that I couldn't open, but my whizkid nephew was able to convert it into a PDF document for me.

They also have Pullman fluted extrusions, but I think the fluting above the windows is wrong.  The Seaboard Sun-Lounge cars were built by Pullman, one of the extrusions I have is of the Sun-Lounge car and I had to Dremel every other flute/rib off to make it correct, not something I would want to do again.  Except...I NEED to have a model of the Pullman 10-6 sleeper PORTSMOUTH, so I may be doing more surgery in the future.

Any chance of getting the contact information of OK Engines?

Not to be blunt but two 18 inch PRR blunt end observation cars by K-Line.

Business is off a bit at the Santa Fe.  

Google OK Engines and it will come right up. They have some interesting stuff....not cheap and simple on detail....but a GREAT start to nice scale cars. I had lots of them in HO scale but only one in O right now.

Here ya go:

http://www.okengines.com/

Like Dave says, simple design (old Herkimer cars), no interiors.  You can buy a car with body, ends, floor, window piece, and trucks, the 1st car I bought was the whole hog.  But the pieces other than the car body are far too simple to be of much use these days, so the next 2 I bought were just the car body and window piece (long piece of clear sheet plastic).

There's a channel on the inside of the car body that you can slide a floor onto.  On the vestibule end I glued 2 bulkheads in place and then built the doors/frames from styrene and glued them to the 2 bulkheads.  The bulkhead on the other end is attached to the floor, that way the floor and any interior can simply be pulled out.  I used GGD trucks on 2 cars and old K-Line (new Lionel) trucks on the Sun-Lounge car.

If you do a search on Silver Meteor on the forum here you should come up with a number of photos of some of these cars from OK Engines.

Well,I have been having interesting conversations with Ted at OK Engines/Streamliners regarding convertin my diner to a true lounge car (same procedure would work for a chair car as well).  I am sending him my body shell on Monday.  If all goes well, I should soon be able to announce a great value on such a conversion.  This involves adding the needed roof and lower level windows only.  We modelers will be required to perform the window glazing and interior conversions.  For the first time in a while I can see a near scale El Capitan in sight!  Have a great RR weekend.

Thank you.

Sent off for their catalog today, sounds interesting, one more project to add to the to-do list. 

Larry, You stole my idea!  Seriously, though, could you please ask Ted to save the "blueprint" for the window cutout conversion because I would like to send him a shell too.  And maybe others would like to have the same thing done.  Are you sending him a diner shell or a K-Line faux lounge (#575) shell?  (I think that they are the same.)

Larry...add me to this list!!  I am with James above, I want to have one of these conversions too.  Perhaps if Ted at OK knows there are several, the price will be less for all of us.  Let us know if you have mentioned this to him and if not, then I will give him a call....just let me know if I need to.

Thanks,

Alan

If he has a computer controlled mill you will probably get quantity discounts.  If he does it by hand, each succeeding car will cost more, because he will have to mark them.

Any estimates on what problems such large windows and small webs between will engender?  I would worry that the second window will chew up the aluminum vertical piece between it and the first.  EDM or laser cutting would obviate those sorts of problems.  And the car body by definition will be lots weaker - don't let your ham handed neighbor grab it.

This is a facinating project.  Good luck!

Larry, count me in. I hope all goes well with Ted at OK..

Bill