Lionel 6-11114 Odyssey Mohawk Smoke Unit

@Jim Harrington posted:

I have a Lionel 6-11114 ,

I set it to “high”. I was quite pleased with the increased smoke output - until it didn’t work a day is so later when I turned it on.

I assume it is the resistor.  Not having another engine with this smoke unit, is there anything I should know before I open it up and diagnose?

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...tive-Only-6101114001

A betting person says you killed the smoke regulator NOT the resistor.

That's the typical scenario- smoke great, better than ever- then dead.....

Thanks.  

Apparently obsolete/ unavailable.  

How would I test the regulator?

Is there a typical component that fails?

Other options?

The regulator in these locomotives is a joke. Flaky operation at best when new. Some of us have designed a way to bypass the reg, and use a standard TMCC type resistor …..20-27 ohm ideal for a bypass. Not difficult to do ….

Pat

First, check the resistor, it should be around 8 ohms, at least 7 ohms and not more than 9 ohms.  Also, make sure the screws and nuts that secure the smoke resistor are tight, they frequently get loose.

If it's the smoke regulator the bad news is, it's frequently the microprocessor.  There is no fix for that as it's a programmed part and nobody other than Lionel has the code to program it.  It could be the triac, it's the same one that's used on the R2LC, the 2N6075BG or equivalent.

The good news is, with a couple fairly simple mods to the wiring and a smoke resistor change, you can bypass the regulator and restore your smoke since this is a TMCC locomotive.  First off, the regulator is removed, clip the wires close to the regulator so you can splice into them.  Follow the red wire and the solid brown wire and remove them from where they're connected, making sure they're not going to short to anything.  There will be one or two black wires, they are ground wires.  One will doubtless be connected to the frame somewhere, the other may connect to the smoke unit.  If a black wire goes to the smoke unit, that has to be connected to the frame.  You will want to wire the new smoke unit power from the motherboard HOT (see diagram below) to the smoke switch.  The other wire from the smoke switch will connect to the brown/black striped wire that goes to the smoke unit.

Change the smoke resistor from the 8 ohm smoke resistor to a value of 20 ohms to 27 ohms.  For maximum smoke, don't go lower than 20 ohms.

Job done, enjoy the revived smoke function.

Thanks.
What is the purpose of the regulator, if it can be so easily bypassed?

Seems like an unnecessary component.  

@Jim Harrington posted:

What is the purpose of the regulator, if it can be so easily bypassed?

Seems like an unnecessary component.  

OK, so remember how pleased you were to find different levels of smoke you could adjust? The smoke regulator was what you were adjusting.

@Jim Harrington posted:

after I discovered that the smoke level is adjustable, when  I set it to “high”. I was quite pleased with the increased smoke output - until it didn’t work a day is so later when I turned it on.

In conventional operation, where the track voltage varies- the use of a lower resistor value like 8 Ohms and then use of a regulator to adjust and regulate the smoke regardless of track voltage- yet another purpose of the smoke regulator and specifically chosen value of resistor.

Bypassing that- you lose that functionality. Replacing the resistor with a 27 Ohm unit so as to not overheat the smoke TRIAC output of the R4LC, you have a fixed ratio of smoke here- ON or OFF. It also will be track voltage dependent and likely not work as well in conventional operation at lower track voltages- simply because the fixed resistor value is designed for higher voltages because there is no regulator.

Thank you for the explanation.  

@Vernon Barry posted:

Bypassing that- you lose that functionality. Replacing the resistor with a 27 Ohm unit so as to not overheat the smoke TRIAC output of the R4LC, you have a fixed ratio of smoke here- ON or OFF. It also will be track voltage dependent and likely not work as well in conventional operation at lower track voltages- simply because the fixed resistor value is designed for higher voltages because there is no regulator.

FWIW, tons of people are running just fine without the smoke regulator and get very satisfactory smoke performance.  I've done fairly extensive testing on the minimum resistance you can use and still stay within the safe limits of the R2LC smoke triac, and 20 ohms is the floor value.  Obviously, it's also the value that gives you the best smoke performance.  For diesels, I typically use 27-30 ohms as I don't want the same volume of smoke from a diesel.

Note that virtually all my work and testing have been for command operation at 18 VAC track voltage.  There is, however, a significant difference between conventional and command operation when running with R2LC controlled smoke.  For conventional running, the smoke triac puts out full-wave track power, for command operation the smoke triac puts out half-wave track power, only the positive half cycle.  So, the smoke with conventional running isn't as anemic as you might think, assuming fairly normal loads on the locomotive.

Most of my command upgrades use the R2LC smoke triac and not the regulator, and I don't have any problem with smoke performance.  Truthfully, the regulator has been so trouble-plagued that I tend to remove them at the drop of a hat.

A couple of examples of recent upgrades with R2LC controlled smoke.

Thank you all for your responses. Turns out this screws for the resistor were loose.  Glad this was the easy fix.  Every once and a while, we get lucky...

John, Thank your for the detailed procedure for removal of the regulator and re-wiring.  I will save that for the future.

-Jimmy

@Jim Harrington posted:

John, Thank your for the detailed procedure for removal of the regulator and re-wiring.  I will save that for the future.

And if you have a number of the locomotives with the regulator module, odds are that you will need that in the future.