Lionel Base 3

You mean the one on Page 226 of the current catalog?

Jon

The last time this came up. The eta was for 4th quarter of this year. There is no concrete shipping date.

I don't even think Lionel knows when it'll ship.

It will ship when it ships and not before.

Jon,

You are correct as I was just focused on the portion of the catalog that is normally mailed out, shame on me.

Being it was a new and coming introduced product I would have thought Lionel would have kept it in the mailed out catalog?

From the reply's it is pretty much what I expected regarding shipment "it will get here when it gets here".

I would also like to see a new Legacy hand controller to go along with the CAB 3 although that is probably not realistic?   Not sure how many other folks would be interested although I do have an abundance of both Lionel Legacy and MTH TIU and controllers to keep me going for quite awhile.

Larry Brown

@Larry Brown posted:

I would also like to see a new Legacy hand controller to go along with the CAB 3 although that is probably not realistic?   Not sure how many other folks would be interested although I do have an abundance of both Lionel Legacy and MTH TIU and controllers to keep me going for quite awhile.

Well, the retained the CAB1L, so we get at least a hand-held controller that works with it, even though it's not a fully capable one.

@Junior posted:

I gotta tell ya....Lionel's Product Succession Planning completely alludes me.

They came out with CAB1 and Remote...GREAT! Then CAB1L and Remote came out (for Legacy support]....makes sense. Then CAB2 and totally redesigned Remote came out (for full Legacy functionality)....fantastic.

Now CAB3 is due out and......there's no Remote!? And its not backward compatible with the snazzy, fully enhanced CAB2 Remote? I'm so confused.

I've seen train club members run trains on their phones (I've not seen anyone run trains from a tablet.....so far). It's not pretty. Maybe Lionel should consider selling "official reading glasses" for those running trains from the tiny screens on their cellphones.

If the objective is to attract the younger generation to model railroading..I get that. But how many of the younger generation can drop $2 grand on an engine?

Anyway...am I buying a CAB3? Mmmmmm....no.

And yes, its my understanding MTH is heading in the same direction. Sigh.....

I guess I need to chalk it up to "progress".

Just my 2 cents (now where's the cents sign on my tablet's keyboard).......sigh.

Now CAB3 is due out and......there's no Remote!? And its not backward compatible with the snazzy, fully enhanced CAB2 Remote? I'm so confused.

You are so wrong you are able to use the cab 2 remotes with the cab 3 I think you need to go back and watch Daves videos on youtube.

@Vernon Barry....I deleted my post. I realized that I was venting and that has no value here.

@Junior posted:

I gotta tell ya....Lionel's Product Succession Planning completely alludes me.

They came out with CAB1 and Remote...GREAT! Then CAB1L and Remote came out (for Legacy support]....makes sense. Then CAB2 and totally redesigned Remote came out (for full Legacy functionality)....fantastic.

Actually, TMCC was first. Then lionel came out with the Legacy Cab 2 .

At that point the TMCC cab 1 was discontinued and deemed obsolete. Then (after folks complained possibly) the Cab 1 reappeared as the Cab1L with legacy compatible electronics. Then years later, Lionchief Locos 2.0 became equipped with Tmcc 🤔

So really, it's even more confusing than you first thought. The Lionchief stuff is worse. Having said all that, maybe... if enough folks complain. Maybe Lionel can come up with a Cab 3. I'm not concerned,  I grabbed and extra Cab 2 for under 300 bucks right before the official discontinuation announcement.

Compatibility is always an issue and not just in running trains and sometimes you have to wonder what manufactures are thinking and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't and sometimes they finally come around.

I was not initially a LionChief advocate but after seeing kids who have not seen or played with a train before and you hand them a LionChief controller, give them a little overview and they are off and running having fun running a train for the first time.

Now we have trains that are compatible with all the controllers which allows the younger generation to move forward with the technology that is presented to them and they seem to pick it up pretty fast, especially in the world of computers.

We are all passionate about how we run our trains and we spend a lot of hard earned money doing so and it never ceases to amaze me how this forum works together to make that happen.  I learned a lot from Marty Fitzhenry when I first got into this hobby as he always worked with all the manufactures to better the hobby, not to mention all the help he provided to everyone in the world of trains.

I am optimistic that everything will come out in the wash, it might just take a little time.

Nothing we can do about it We will be getting the CAB3 at some point whatever we like it or not. I still do not understand Lionel's long term reasoning for this product. Oh yea i get 'everyone has a phone...blah blah...and they can do SW/FW updates over the air...blah blah' but where are they going with this?  No remote?? Who is really at the switch at Lionel making these long term technology decisions? Obviously, they are having MAJOR issues getting this thing to market...OY

@Don Beck posted:

No remote?? Who is really at the switch at Lionel making these long term technology decisions? Obviously, they are having MAJOR issues getting this thing to market...OY

The bean counters at Lionel have the wheel, and they've decided not to invest in a new remote.  It's all about the bucks, they save money by not having any physical remote.

Could the Legacy hand controller be updated for 4 digit I.D.'s and any future functions?

@Don Beck posted:

Nothing we can do about it We will be getting the CAB3 at some point whatever we like it or not. I still do not understand Lionel's long term reasoning for this product. Oh yea i get 'everyone has a phone...blah blah...and they can do SW/FW updates over the air...blah blah' but where are they going with this?  No remote?? Who is really at the switch at Lionel making these long term technology decisions? Obviously, they are having MAJOR issues getting this thing to market...OY

Don,

Although quite a few of us do generally agree with you, there are many who do not and have accepted what appears to be inevitable.  More importantly, and to be fair, you and I and the rest of us who agree are not automatically getting a perfect view in our crystal ball, justifying such confidence in our position.

It costs big money to develop custom hardware for a handheld.  This would require a commitment to the hobby by the major players that doesn't presently appear to exist.

As a result a third party may have to come in and handle our needs.  Although licensing issues might get in the way, with a good vision, hardware and software expertise, and a solid sales pitch such an organization may just be able to get the job done.

BTW -- Just to be clear it's the Cab 3 App for our phones that we'll be getting at some point whether we like it or not.  I think that's what you meant?

Mike

Yes  And sorry to be fair. Lionel continues to develop very expensive locos, so money is not the only issue here

@Larry Brown posted:

I was not initially a LionChief advocate but after seeing kids who have not seen or played with a train before and you hand them a LionChief controller, give them a little overview and they are off and running having fun running a train for the first time.

Now we have trains that are compatible with all the controllers which allows the younger generation to move forward with the technology that is presented to them and they seem to pick it up pretty fast, especially in the world of computers.

Larry,

You're right on track here, and I share your optimism, but I'm going to nitpick just a little.  If these kids are finding technology so easy to adopt then you or I should be able to dispense with LionChief and hand them a Cab 2 controller instead, right off the bat.

They should also be able to get off and running a train for the first time with a Cab 2, should they not?

Mike

Most of us are pretty happy with CAB2. Why not do a CAB2 plus?  All of this R and D and $ to add 4 digit address? Who cares. How many of us have 99 locos?  And over the air updates and the ability to run ALL Of Lionel’s. It seems a big missed opportunity. We shall see. Meanwhile no new Base3 or App.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

It costs big money to develop custom hardware for a handheld.  This would require a commitment to the hobby by the major players that doesn't presently appear to exist.

I can't imagine it costs that much, I think it's more simply pinching pennies by Lionel.  Truthfully, the people with the money simply don't have the interest in the actual business.  It appears they're more interested in squeezing as much profit out of the business as possible in the short term.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I can't imagine it costs that much, I think it's more simply pinching pennies by Lionel.  Truthfully, the people with the money simply don't have the interest in the actual business.  It appears they're more interested in squeezing as much profit out of the business as possible in the short term.

John,

Is the tooling for a handheld on the order of that for a detailed steamer?  Probably not, but very few detailed steamers are tooled up completely from scratch anymore.

There's a lot of truth in what you're saying here.

The difference between a handheld and a detailed steamer or diesel is that one needs to know electronics and modeling both equally well for a new handled to be considered "low risk".  I don't think our large players currently do.

Perceived risk in the investment is the problem here.  Presently steamers and diesels appear to be much more likely to be considered low risk than handhelds.  To the players, using a phone as a platform for control presently appears to incur the lowest risk.

Mike