RidgeRunner posted:The Theater Cars have been a long missing model. Love that the Norfolk Southern Buena Vista NS 29 is included here.
But where are the companion 21" NS office cars? Unlike the Conrail and CSX presented here and UP last catalog, the NS aren't shown here or in previous catalogs. Is this just a taste for the Fall?
I am definitely ordering Buena Vista, but can't believe they don't even have a hint that the rest will be in the vol 2 catalog.
Rocky Mountaineer posted:superwarp1 posted:Mikado listed at 1299.00, dealers are discounting them to the 1050.00 range. I really want a new NYC Mike but I won't pre-order at this price. Sorry to say. Guess I'm stuck in the days when a Kline Mike went for 400 bucks.
You can always roll the dice a bit... and wait for a dealer sale AFTER delivery. A 10-15% discount off the regular street-price may be more to your liking. Won't get you down to $400
, but definitely below $1K. I purchased two Lionel Heavy Mikado's from the last production run that way... about $850/each... and that price was much better than the typical pre-order prices after the catalog was published. Still not exactly "cheap", but I didn't think I'd do any better at the time for a brand new one with warranty protection.
David
David
Just curious and you probably can't answer this but...why would a shop order BTOs when they know there is a good chance they'll have to discount them to the point of losing any chance of a profit? I can see maybe a dealer that knows his clientele or the market orders a few additional but to the point of losing money? I know in the past you made the comment that the dealers get "stuck" with these items. At what point does the dealer bear some responsibility of some of this pricing? A dealer orders 100 BTO SD60s and has pre-orders for 50 and then hopes to sell 50 more at a greater than pre-order price later only to have to discount them. Is that the manufacturer's fault?
Also I suspect some of the dealers that can afford to discount them are making money in other areas of the market. Curious your thoughts?
Rocky Mountaineer posted:superwarp1 posted:Mikado listed at 1299.00, dealers are discounting them to the 1050.00 range. I really want a new NYC Mike but I won't pre-order at this price. Sorry to say. Guess I'm stuck in the days when a Kline Mike went for 400 bucks.
You can always roll the dice a bit... and wait for a dealer sale AFTER delivery. A 10-15% discount off the regular street-price may be more to your liking. Won't get you down to $400
David
That's probably what I'm going to do come Black Friday 2017 for the 587, but it depends. Some items become blindsiding sell outs, like the 2-8-0's last year and the Berks in 2014. Maybe that was because of their much lower street prices, but I guess we'll see how many dealers will still have a 587 by Thanksgiving, given they're released in October. 
"By chance, do you work for Lionel?" Yes, they pay me $500,000 per year to post on the OGR Forum. 
It's quite simple. Unless you have separate loops, it's not easy for one person to control more than 1-2 locos at a time with a TMCC or Legacy remote. Or perhaps if you have huge loops of 100 feet of track or so. Thus, for most of us, you're going to need another person (and controller) or your other hand (again, another controller) to operate 2-4 locos. I know there are people who like to play chicken and control more than 1-2 locos at a time, but for most people it's not fun. So the fact that every LC or LC+ loco comes with another handheld means you do not need an additional controller to have your second operator (friend, spouse, kid, grand-kid, stranger) operate another loco on a layout. How this is such a negative or blunder is beyond me.
I'm guessing those who are most critical do not own LC or LC+ locos and have never seen the advantages of having a "free" remote with each loco. For large layouts, modular layouts and such, this is certainly a big plus in most ways. Thus if you've never tried LC or LC+ in a Legacy/TMCC or DCS environment, perhaps you might temper your criticism of something you have no hands-on experience with, no?
Having both TMCC and LC+ locos, I see only advantages to the availability of both technologies. Minimal if any disadvantages, and only if you are operating alone, with one hand tied behind your back, or eating a largish sandwich.
MartyE posted:Rocky Mountaineer posted:superwarp1 posted:Mikado listed at 1299.00, dealers are discounting them to the 1050.00 range. I really want a new NYC Mike but I won't pre-order at this price. Sorry to say. Guess I'm stuck in the days when a Kline Mike went for 400 bucks.
You can always roll the dice a bit... and wait for a dealer sale AFTER delivery. A 10-15% discount off the regular street-price may be more to your liking. Won't get you down to $400
David
David
Just curious and you probably can't answer this but...why would a shop order BTOs when they know there is a good chance they'll have to discount them to the point of losing any chance of a profit? I can see maybe a dealer that knows his clientele or the market orders a few additional but to the point of losing money? I know in the past you made the comment that the dealers get "stuck" with these items. At what point does the dealer bear some responsibility of some of this pricing? A dealer orders 100 BTO SD60s and has pre-orders for 50 and then hopes to sell 50 more at a greater than pre-order price later only to have to discount them. Is that the manufacturer's fault?
Also I suspect some of the dealers that can afford to discount them are making money in other areas of the market. Curious your thoughts?
I am still waiting for a T1 for 1400 shipped no luck yet (
Berkshire President posted:If Lionchief is truly compatible with Legacy or TMCC, shouldn't they be able to run in a lash up together?
Picture this scenario: I'm running one Legacy engine....and 14 Liar Chief locos on a hypothetical one mile oval of track. I need 15 remotes to do so. How is this....compatible?
No, you'd need 5 LionChief Plus Universal remotes, each of which controls three locomotives. And that's assuming that all 15 locomotives were different road name and numbers. If some were the same, that'd reduce the amount of remotes.
And if they can put three in one remote, what's to stop them from doing 5 or 10 in one remote, or having an adaptor for Legacy or TMCC control? Nothing but desire.
I get it, you don't like LionChief. But, me? I love it. I can't afford to get into Legacy or TMCC, and really, I don't want to. I love having the remote in my hand that just works. And I'm sure down the line they'll be more integration options. They've already added Bluetooth.
Having and supporting LionChief means nothing for the other operating systems. It doesn't affect you at all. Just don't buy them. I don't believe LionChief will be the only way forward, but I believe it will succeed due to people like me.
"Having and supporting LionChief means nothing for the other operating systems."
I'd argue that since LionChief/LionChief + is a superior form of radio control communication, it very likely will become the basis for future Legacy upgrades (2.4 GHz digital spread spectrum). It's much more robust than TMCC/Legacy in that regard, and far superior in reliability and range to DCS and DCC. So Lionel is ahead of the curve, at least in terms of modes of RF communication. Built in Bluetooth now means you might not need wi-fi, for one thing in future iterations of their technology. LC/LC+ and Bluetooth are both more modern forms of radio communication than what went into DCC, DCS and TMCC/Legacy a decade or two previously.
"What is sad is they produced these upside down in 2011... maybe it will be fixed. "
J DADDY,
I know that they were shown that way in the catalog back then, but, were they actually delivered that way?
In case some posting here are questioning the current catalog, or some of the details concerning the offerings in the catalog please stop by Notch 6 and listen to the latest from Derek and Ryan. Ryan provides some interesting insights and thoughts behind the offerings and details as well. I think you will find it entertaining and informative. And no, I do not work for Notch 6 or Lionel, just wanted to make you aware of it.
BTW, Ryan does say that all locos in the catalog have the RCMC board, just the shay is geared lower (lower speed table) so double heading with diesels or high speed steamers is not recommended.
Just a thought:
It’s all about choices, folks. If you like Lion Chief Plus, great If not, don’t buy it.
I’m a conventional & PW operator who has zero, zilch, nada interest in Legacy or spending $1500 (or more) on a toy train. 
But that’s OK. Legacy is great for those who run and enjoy it. See, choices again. I like the LC+ locos because I get the option of running with the supplied remote or conventionally.
And it’s not going away (LC+, I mean). See Volume 1. The line is expanding not only with additional liveries for existing locos but there are significant expansions in this latest catalog.
Enjoy your trains!
Steam Loco Greg posted:In case some posting here are questioning the current catalog, or some of the details concerning the offerings in the catalog please stop by Notch 6 and listen to the latest from Derek and Ryan. Ryan provides some interesting insights and thoughts behind the offerings and details as well. I think you will find it entertaining and informative. And no, I do not work for Notch 6 or Lionel, just wanted to make you aware of it.
BTW, Ryan does say that all locos in the catalog have the RCMC board, just the shay is geared lower (lower speed table) so double heading with diesels or high speed steamers is not recommended.
That podcast is almost 90 minutes!!! I saw -1:23:00 (give or take a few seconds) on the timer, and closed the browser tab before the music kicked in.
The point you mentioned about the RCMC board is excellent information that should be part of half a dozen or so "highlight charts"... like an executive overview. Or think of it like the way Steve Nelson from Mr.Muffin's trains provides a quick write-up of the OGR Grandstand Mtg highlighting the salient points. Nearly 90 minutes is too much for an interview-format with this material. Meegan was EXCELLENT in her segment earlier this week, but even at 40+ minutes, I was skipping through it to get just the important stuff. Get these things down to 10 minutes or 20 minutes MAX with solid information and minimize the interview banter, and it would be perfect.
David
Or I/you can wait until someone decides to sell one on the buy/sell board.
im going to hold off on what to do over this awesome looking engine until after the train show this weekend. Never know if I'll find the new MTH version at a good price
D500 posted:
Purple ACL. What is it with purple? Ugly color. (For those who know: I may be a Mopar guy, but you can toss all the "Plum Crazy" paint ever mixed.)
Has any O-gauge manufacturer ever made an ACL diesel that wasn't purple? The ACL royal purple faded so badly it needed repainting every two years. Yet no one offers a faded version. Starting in 1957, under a new president ACL went black locomotives accented with aluminum and yellow. Ever seen an O-gauge ACL diesel in black and yellow? Those are the ones I saw during my youth.
I, too, am a Mopar guy (and a Mopar family with four Mopars, though all modern), but would never go Plum Crazy.
I like green/gray alco set,and jury is still out on the prewar inspired s2 set,,,,i haven't bought any lionel items except a car or two in the last 8 years or so,,,maybe this time
Just curious...I am assuming the shays are not a new tooling , any idea what year they were last released?...I understand the draw to the whistle steam smoke effect...but at that price I might want a little more...maybe I am silly to think like that...thanks
Bet'ch nobody noticed on the Polar Express set in the ready to run catalog the Polar Express lettering is now below the windows, just like the movie...
Rusty
booker110 posted:Just curious...I am assuming the shays are not a new tooling , any idea what year they were last released?...I understand the draw to the whistle steam smoke effect...but at that price I might want a little more...maybe I am silly to think like that...thanks
The Shay was last cataloged in 2010 with TMCC, but this is the first time there's been a Legacy version of this tooling.
booker110 posted:Just curious...I am assuming the shays are not a new tooling , any idea what year they were last released?...I understand the draw to the whistle steam smoke effect...but at that price I might want a little more...maybe I am silly to think like that...thanks
I think mine is the original issue of this tooling....that's what I've been told anyway. Picked it up about a year aago less than $500 delivered and that was a stretch for me......but as I have ridden on her a few times....I had to have it.
Thanks for the info
Pretty good catalog...I like the WM and early CSX SD40's. The LionCheif SD60M I think was a good idea as well. Time to start saving pennies...
J Daddy posted:Now the Bad and the Ugly....
Somehow these light Mikado's just don't look right? your feelings?
Hmm all new How? same as the ESE released last year? confused here...
Just my opinion, but really ? GN would have been so much cooler... or the NP... ARGH!
90.00 for a flat car?! WHAAAAAT?
800.00 for ... ugh ... never mind... (but you get the ringing bell)
Again... hey Lionel - how about Android users?!
Nice hoppers but do they really go with the shay?
I thought these would be better fit for the shay.... these look fun...
Just my thoughts... I am only one wallet...
The irony is that isn't an iPhone, it's an android device. Yet the app isn't marketed for android?
PS....On the WM #6 Shay.......I think it's funny we get a Cass version and the 'Elk River' version.......Elk River area is in the Cass neighborhood and if things go like some folks want them to Cass/WM #6 may run on tracks in the Elk River.....which it never has......does Lionel know something?????
Landsteiner posted:"By chance, do you work for Lionel?" Yes, they pay me $500,000 per year to post on the OGR Forum.
Darn it. I bid to do that Job for 510K per year....and was out bid.
I'm guessing those who are most critical do not own LC or LC+ locos and have never seen the advantages of having a "free" remote with each loco. For large layouts, modular layouts and such, this is certainly a big plus in most ways. Thus if you've never tried LC or LC+ in a Legacy/TMCC or DCS environment, perhaps you might temper your criticism of something you have no hands-on experience with, no?
I actually have NO problem with LC or LC+ at all......so long as that product line doesn't take away from the Legacy offerings, most notably Scale Steam. I have a lot of time and money invested in TMCC/Legacy....and wish that area to continue, at a high level.
One man's coffee is another man's tea, as the saying goes.
Peace....and thanks for playing.
TM Terry posted:
D500 posted:
Purple ACL. What is it with purple? Ugly color. (For those who know: I may be a Mopar guy, but you can toss all the "Plum Crazy" paint ever mixed.)
Has any O-gauge manufacturer ever made an ACL diesel that wasn't purple? The ACL royal purple faded so badly it needed repainting every two years. Yet no one offers a faded version. Starting in 1957, under a new president ACL went black locomotives accented with aluminum and yellow. Ever seen an O-gauge ACL diesel in black and yellow? Those are the ones I saw during my youth.
I, too, am a Mopar guy (and a Mopar family with four Mopars, though all modern), but would never go Plum Crazy.
Here you go...a WBB ACL GP30.
The ACF Center Flow 4-bay covered hoppers from Weaver that I have are made from a plastic that is a bit brittle and needs to be handled carefully to not brake it.
Are they making them in a more flexible or durable type of plastic that will not snap or shatter?
I would like to get a set of the Great Northern ACF Center Flow 4-bay covered hoppers.
Andrew
In light of the rampant QA issues with the VL GG-1 and other locos from Lionel lately, I am a little concerned about ordering anything else for now. Plus, there wasn't anything in there that turned me on.
Prices are sky high too: $2000 for the AC-9? $650 for the SD40? $1299 for the Mikado? $1499 for the Shay?
The camera in the Observation car is a cool idea.
I am saving my money for the Legacy Western Maryland 1309.
Steam Loco Greg posted:BTW, Ryan does say that all locos in the catalog have the RCMC board, just the shay is geared lower (lower speed table) so double heading with diesels or high speed steamers is not recommended.
That's a bit odd, since Ryan did say that those who wanted to double head the 587 with another engine like the recent 765 could be done. I guess we'll see if that actually comes to fruition.
Taking a quick break from work at the office to check out the Forum... no time to answer all the questions tonight but I do want to clarify that the disclaimer on the website for the AC-9 and Mike's was meant only for the Shay in the catalog. The joys of data entry! We have corrected the error in the system here and the website itself should have updated by now. We included this disclaimer even though the Shay (and all of the Legacy loco's in this catalog) have the same RCMC board that you are all accustomed to. However, the Shay, being a Shay, is geared and coded to run at appropriate speeds. It will lash up with other 3 and 2 truck Shays well. The AC-9, Mikes, etc. will all lash up with other road engines as you please!
OK - back to work for me. Can't wait to see where these discussions have gone by morning!
Ryan,
Thanks for clearing that up, and I appreciate you taking the time to tell us it directly here. I feel very secure about the 587 now, as well as the other products.
J Daddy posted:Big Jim posted:palallin posted:Big Jim posted:Mikado 4501 posted:And Big Jim - that's the tender 587 did have. It'll likely look better in its production form.
Yes, it does look better in the real photo, much better!
I don't how the models have been delivered, but, yes the trailing truck has been depicted from day one upside down.It is not.
On the NKP engine it most certainly is depicted upside down!
Compare the 587 truck to the proper way the truck is mounted on the 4758.
What is sad is they produced these upside down in 2011... maybe it will be fixed. Also this engine was 899 retail... what happened? Did the void NAFTA agreement just kick in? Or is that a whole new topic of discussion... BTW you may want to buy trains now cause from I am hearing 30 percent tax is going to kill this industry for a while.
Yep,
Time will tell, but prices like this will put Lionel under at some point. And if my man Trump has is way with that tariff the Mikes could cost over $2 K and those Shays could cost over $3K. I did not even look at the price of the AC 9's. Can you imagine the sticker shock if any of the top of the line engines in this catalog came in a Vision Line box?
Richard
I promised myself that after I fell for the VL GG1 I had reached my limit on high priced engines. Well Lionel has made it pretty easy for me to stick to that promise with the products and their retail list prices in this latest catalog.
I do not feel like researching previous catalogs so correct me if I am wrong. I noticed that you now have to purchase an observation car as a separate sale item in a two car set if you want to complete you NYC Empire State Express set. Is this a new way for Lionel to take advantage of their loyal customers? I haven't paid too much attention to Lionel's new passenger car sets in the past. To make an observation car a separate sale item is just a little nuts in my opinion. 
$90 retail for a flat car with a lumber load? I have been buying brass three dome tank cars for around that price! If I recall these 40ft flat cars were around a $50 retail price in the catalog when they first appeared.
I hate to be too negative about my favorite toy train manufacture, but enough is enough.
Richard
J Daddy posted:...Hmm all new How? same as the ESE released last year? confused here...
Just my opinion, but really ? GN would have been so much cooler... or the NP... ARGH!
.....
RE: the NYC ESE passenger cars. Disregard the inset photo of the NYC E8's. What Lionel really meant to include was a photo of all the NYC ESE Hudson locomotives from 2015, and the caption should have read, "Pairs nicely with all the ala carte 2015 NYC ESE Hudsons that dealers still can't sell at blowout prices." 
Seriously, this is a very good move on Lionel's part. And it wouldn't surprise me one iota if a bunch of dealers hit Lionel with this request to help them move locomotives still in inventory. Even Charlie Ro still has 2 of these ESE Hudson SKU's "on special" for $1100 and 1 ESE Hudson SKU w/PT Tender "on special" for $1200. And Charlie is just one dealer that still has leftover/extra's. There are many more out there. Not too many folks are gonna by those locomotives without cars though. So perhaps these cars will help the cause.
Note the slick marketing though... the observation car is part of the 2-pack instead of the 4-pack. So folks need to buy both SKU's if they're building a train from Square 1. I think the "All New" badge is there to indicate that these are new/unique rolling stock names/numbers -- not repeats from the 2015 catalog.
RE: the BN set. Couldn't agree more!!! That's a TERRIBLE paint scheme choice, and doesn't even have an observation car depicted. For sure, either the GN or NP would have sold MUCH better.... IMHO, of course. (Note: The catalog text even refers to the GN and NP trains, which adds a bit of salt to the wound.) These cars aren't even BTO, so I'm wondering how Lionel will determine the production quantity. Perhaps using dealer orders as a guideline?
Or if Lionel REALLY wanted to make a statement, they should have done the Rocky Mountaineer set... complete with locomotives up front, along with high-level lounge cars, and a trailing Theatre car. We can only hope that's something they'll entertain producing down the road. 
David
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Or if Lionel REALLY wanted to make a statement, they should have done the Rocky Mountaineer set... complete with locomotives up front, along with high-level lounge cars, and a trailing Theatre car. We can only hope that's something they'll entertain producing down the road.
David
Rumor has it they had a prototype for these cars... but the wheels wouldn't stop squeaking. 
J Daddy posted:Big Jim posted:On the NKP engine it most certainly is depicted upside down!
Compare the 587 truck to the proper way the truck is mounted on the 4758.
What is sad is they produced these upside down in 2011... maybe it will be fixed. Also this engine was 899 retail... what happened? Did the void NAFTA agreement just kick in? Or is that a whole new topic of discussion... BTW you may want to buy trains now cause from I am hearing 30 percent tax is going to kill this industry for a while.
Don't you just love it when rumors start just because the catalog depiction makes a mistake? 
I've seen many a Lionel Legacy Mikado from 2011, and have yet to see one that actually has the trailing truck upside down like in the catalogs.
MartyE posted:Rocky Mountaineer posted:superwarp1 posted:Mikado listed at 1299.00, dealers are discounting them to the 1050.00 range. I really want a new NYC Mike but I won't pre-order at this price. Sorry to say. Guess I'm stuck in the days when a Kline Mike went for 400 bucks.
You can always roll the dice a bit... and wait for a dealer sale AFTER delivery. A 10-15% discount off the regular street-price may be more to your liking. Won't get you down to $400
David
David
Just curious and you probably can't answer this but...why would a shop order BTOs when they know there is a good chance they'll have to discount them to the point of losing any chance of a profit? I can see maybe a dealer that knows his clientele or the market orders a few additional but to the point of losing money? I know in the past you made the comment that the dealers get "stuck" with these items. At what point does the dealer bear some responsibility of some of this pricing? A dealer orders 100 BTO SD60s and has pre-orders for 50 and then hopes to sell 50 more at a greater than pre-order price later only to have to discount them. Is that the manufacturer's fault?
Also I suspect some of the dealers that can afford to discount them are making money in other areas of the market. Curious your thoughts?
Marty, all very good points. I'm often very puzzled these days with dealer pricing. Sometimes I'll see very aggressive prices on product from a small LHS -- even though they typically source their product through a distributor vs. direct from Lionel.
Each situation is unique though. Sometimes a dealer may need a quick cash infusion, so they'll move some inventory at lower margins -- or perhaps even at a loss. But as you say, that's offset by larger profits in other parts of the product line. Only each dealer truly knows their "big picture".
Given the type of catalog we have here though -- along with market conditions (i.e., folks coming off a pretty brutal 2016 if they ordered tons of stuff), I wouldn't be surprised if 2017 is the year where dealers hold back a bit on BTO extra's. I'm sure they're as aware as any of us here, that enthusiasts have more trains now than their great-grandchildren could ever use -- even if the importers would stop new production immediately. That's not gonna happen anytime soon. But the fact that folks are sending that message has gotta create a bit of nervousness on the supply side of the house.
David
jojofry posted:... I am still waiting for a T1 for 1400 shipped no luck yet (
I know where you can do this. Send me a message offline, and I'll clue you in.... but the sale is running for only a few more days.
David
Berkshire President posted:palallin posted:Berkshire President posted:That NKP tender looks like it belongs behind a Berk.....not a USRA Light Mikado. It doesn't look right or attractive at all, IMHO. Put it next to the Heavy Mikado and it will look even more out place, I opine.....regardless of the Excursion Tender.
That's because it came from a Berk, just as the real one did.
I get that....but if you're going to issue a group of USRA Light Mikes, why not issue the USRA tender to match? I'm pretty sure that every other Light Mike that Lionel (and K-Line) produced came with the USRA tender....so why deviate now?
Disclaimer: this is mere personal preference on my part. I have a TMCC and a Legacy NKP Berk....and love both of them. But I'd like some variety....and some smaller steam engines compared to my Berks and growing 4-8-4 roster.
I'm not saying the tender is wrong. I'm just asking...."Why?"
The catalog views for the other road names show the correct USRA tender. The reason the Nickel Plate Mike is offered that way is because the actual Mike #587 that they are offering famously operated that way.
The catalog views for the other road names show the correct USRA tender. The reason the Nickel Plate Mike is offered that way is because the actual Mike #587 that they are offering famously operated that way.
Allow me to rephrase: I (personally) would much prefer the USRA Tender on the NKP Light Mike b/c I have the same Berkshire Tender on my Lionel Scale 779 and 765....and any other Lima Berk that may pass through my layout. I would like some VARIETY, which in this case would be a USRA Tender.
Along those lines, I won't buy this if Lionel again uses Rich Melvin's voice on the crew talk. I have nothing against Rich at all.....but his voice is used on my 765 (awesome) and GN Heavy Mike (less awesome and redundant.....and kind of odd when I run both at the same time.)
Cheers......
Nice catalog! Huge fan of the BN E 8!!!!! For now it looks like they will have to pull my soon to arrive MTH Metra cars. Should look amazing. I'll also buy the UP theater car. Awesome idea!!!
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
