Lionel Legacy F3 no sounds

First step would be to make sure the speaker is good, it's an easy test.

 

If that's not it, I'd suggest you find someone that will test the RS board for you and just ship that if they're not local.  Much cheaper and you may solve the problem in a much cheaper fashion.  If nobody else steps up, I can test it for you.

 

Thanks John,

                 I'll test the speaker, I actually have a spare that I did not use on a TMCC

upgrade of a Williams Scale GG1. 

 i'll post how I get on.

 

Happy Thanksgiving 

Nick

Speaker tested ok. Tried running it from the GG1 sound board and it works perfectly.

 

Tested the incoming power to the Railsounds board and that looks fine. 

So it looks like the fault is within the Railsounds board.

 

Nick 

 

 

Well, you'll have to get that board from Lionel with an exchange, they require an exchange to buy those.

 

Thanks John,

                 I have asked Lionel if I can buy a new board. I can soon return the old board.

It's a lot cheaper than shipping the engine

I am still getting over the cost of shipping my Legacy set back for repair and Lionel kindly paid for the return shipping on that. 

 

Nick

As long as you swap, they'll sell you the new board.

Nick, this will get your sounds back.  Press the horn one time then go to the keypad and start pressing the #1 button a few times to bring sound back.   This is not the same as AUX1 then press #1.  ONE HORN THEN NUMBER 1.

He should still hear the horn and bell.

John, not in the mode I instructed him to do.  No horn or bell in this mode can be heard until sounds are restored.  The horn and bell can be heard in AUX1 then 1 for sounds and 4 for no sounds.  I see this often when people loose Legacy sounds. 

 

 

I see what you're getting at. The master volume (as opposed to the blend or background sound) volume might be at minimum. Let's see what the result of your suggested test is.

 

So what cause this to occur?  G

I'd need to do some more investigation, but two possibilities are the operator unintentionally turning the volume(s) to minimum via cab button presses or a hardware problem in the railsounds board.

 

In re-reading the original post, it seems like there might have been a short at the beginning of the troubles (breaker tripped, engine stopped in its tracks).

I confess, I never heard of the horn once and then ALT1-1, is that documented anywhere?

 

John

 

I think this was in Mike's video.  I think the reason for blowing the horn it to make sure that AUX1 command, if given before, was cleared.  This way you are truly doing overall volume instead of the ancillary sounds with the AUX1+ volume up.

I guess I missed that Marty, makes sense.  Hard to believe in all his attempts that it didn't work if that was the cause.

 

 

Horn one time then press button 1.  No AUX1 in this approach.  I get to see several like this.  Whenever a Legacy engine comes to me stating no sounds, usually that is it.  If not then the RS Lite board is an issue after chasing all ther Leoco plugs.

Right, no AUX1, silly me.

 

Did this work for him?

 

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

Lionel customer service gave me the same tip to try. Whistle then number 1. No dice.

I have a RA to return the Railsounds board to Lionel for test. So hope to strip the board from the engine and send it back over the pond this weekend. 

 

It was very strange that there was no derailment or short on the track. The engine was running fine one minute and stopped the next with the powermaster light flashing.

Powerhouse breaker did not trip. After cycling the power there was no more short and the engine ran ok but with no sounds. 

 

Nick

Not a good sign Nick, looks like something overloaded.

 

I'd look around VERY CAREFULLY for any loose connections, chaffed wires, etc.

Just a quick update.

Lionel contacted me this week that they had received the Railsounds board and it was confirmed dead.

 New board purchased and on the way to the UK.

 

John,

I'll double check all the wiring before I install the new board. Thanks for the tip.

 

Nick

New Railsounds board arrived this week.

Double checked the wiring but no sign of any damage.

 

New board in place (got to repair that crew member looks like he has had a chair malfuntion)

 

Crewman repaired and shell back on. Tested and everything works.

 

Many thanks for all the help.

 

Nick

 

Great, and you didn't have to ship the whole engine!

 

Apparently if the battery connector touches the chassis it can blow these RS Lite boards.  G

Good to know, but what a horrible design!

Thanks for the heads up. 

 

Nick

It can blow the old RS4 boards too!   It's not necessarily a horrible design, it's just reality with electronics.  Remember, any wire in a PS/2 installation, and certainly including the battery terminals, touching the frame is really bad for the those boards as well.

I don't think the older boards were as susceptible because AC Ground was reference.  All the newer stuff is all DC isolated from AC input.  Even the first Legacy with R4LC used AC ground for lights couplers and such.  G

I just noticed the same thing...

 

I crimped the wire between the truck and the frame and it split open, and POP! There goes the prime mover.

 

Is it dead?

 

I have horn and bell... and that's it.  I have a funny feeling its toast.

 

Am I correct?

 

Thanks,

Mario

 

If you broke a wire, lost prime mover but still have horn and bell, perhaps the broken wire is connected to the railsounds/signal sounds switch. If so, getting the wire repaired should restore prime mover sounds.

 

Mmmm, good idea.

I should have said I stripped the wires insulation, and it grounded the frame, I believe. It was one of the two big wires coming from the front truck. I know the center thin wire is the Electrocoupler, and it was one of the outer. The black with white stripe one, I think.  I taped them both and resoldered the connector ends.

I get the air release when I press the AUX1 button.

I may swap out the sounds from another unit just to be sure.

Thanks,
Mario

Rudy, don't you have to ground the RS/SS signal to kill the full sound?  I'd think that opening it would just disable the ability to silence the prime mover.

 

Mario, swapping the boards is certainly the easy test.

I'm just guessing based on the reported symptom, not because I remember anything about how the switch was wired. But there's no scenario I can imagine where *just* the prime mover sounds were broken but horn and bell still worked--unless the sound system is thinking it was in "signal sounds only" mode.

 

Perhaps the pin on the micro controller which reads the switch position was zapped and in that case, the board is dead because it will always think it is in signal sounds mode.

 

 

Rudy, that makes sense, I wonder what the board swap showed...

 

I'll have to dig out the other board when I get home, but this RS5.5 board is on its way to NC...

 

Does the air release when pressing AUX1 also do it in SS mode?

 

Did I mention that the "pop" also took out a cab bulb, as well?

 

Thanks,

Mario

Mario, I could have tested that board for you if you wanted, but you didn't ask.  The bulb blowing at the same time may mean something, or it might just be a totally unrelated happening.

 

Oh, John!

 

Guess what?

 

I plugged in an RS4 "OEMALCO" Alco board and it started right up!  And sounded pretty darn good, too!

 

I'm going to keep it in there for the time being, until I get the Legacy RS5.5 replacement board.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help!

 

PS - Too bad it wasn't an FM, I have a few F-unit boards that I could have used the excuse that this was 1958, and The Central had already repowered them!

 

Sincerely,

Mario

Sounds right, like I said, I'd be pretty surprised if it didn't work.  Just don't try to run it in Legacy mode, that might result in silence.

 

You can use the FM board, just pretend that they've replaced the prime mover.