great news!!!
Can someone ask if this is just Weaver remakes? Should we expect 2R engines eventually in this line or no?
Randy_B posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:Or the B&O wagontop?
Atlas will be bringing those hopefully as they now own the tooling.
I hope we see these. I didn't pull the trigger on wagontops at the time as I had a couple of big ticket items on pre-order. Hard to find these now below the $100 mark!
Jim
If L chooses to produce the Roadrailers, I hope they keep the pricing reasonable.
No $75 trailers...
Now for the big $64 question..............................What will be the price point on these new cars?
Regards,
Swafford
(Posted before reading the real news...but definitely still something Lionel should consider) I doubt this is it but Lionel is perfectly situated to enter the diecast 1:24 scale auto market. This market was huge and ruled by Danbury Mint and Franklin Mint. Both had a huge group of extremely avid collectors, these lines made hundreds of millions for each company. Then China production went south and they started losing their tooling in the chaos along with the connections to continue developing new models at reasonable cost. Its costs about $500,000 to create diecast tooling so you need to have a model that lends itself to many variations and paint schemes. Anyway, here Lionel is with the Nascar diecast line and a good factory. The Nascar diecasts are not as detailed as the Danbury Mint and Franklin Mint cars were but they could fix that on new non Nascar issues. Here are some FM and DM models... Also..the above is something Howard Hitchcock would know very well as he was with the Hamilton Collection...which was purchased by Bradford Group. They knew every detail of this market.
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Excited about lion scale. Silly me i never really gave weaver a look until it was to late. Been tearing up eBay though.
Sooooooooooooo, Mike Reagan, no more cast in detail on yer steamers, eh?
Scrappy
FredT where do you get the 054, 072 minimum diameter? Weaver models had separate couplers from the trucks and run perfectly fine on 027, 031,& 036. The literature isn't clear that the couplers are mounted separately from the trucks.
prrhorseshoecurve posted:FredT where do you get the 054, 072 minimum diameter? Weaver models had separate couplers from the trucks and run perfectly fine on 027, 031,& 036. The literature isn't clear that the couplers are mounted separately from the trucks.
SUPER O BOB said:
"Will have separate coupler from trucks. Also will have lionel scale looking trucks, simplified, but where appropriate, will have totating bearing caps."
So I was speculating that body mounted couplers might not be able to operate on small radius curves. I did not know that the Weaver couplers were not truck mounted. Were they longer than normal couplers?
Sounds like progress in the right direction for the serious modelers!
I'm really excited to see another segment of LIONEL's product line being produced here in the USA. Nothing happens overnight, but the trend is very encouraging. Where the fit is right, it's a trend I'd like to see continue.
David
Interesting......hope they have some mock-ups at the booth today.
Peter
Swafford posted:Now for the big $64 question..............................What will be the price point on these new cars?
Regards,
Swafford
LOL, Exactly right. If anything, thanks should be given to Menards for their beautifully done & very inexpensive RS and buildings which it appears contributed to LionScale. Plus, it exposed everything heard previously about rising costs to be bogus.. Menards has shown it simply can be done cheaper if one chooses. Competition is a wonderful thing. It keeps everyone honest..
Joe
fredt posted:prrhorseshoecurve posted:FredT where do you get the 054, 072 minimum diameter? Weaver models had separate couplers from the trucks and run perfectly fine on 027, 031,& 036. The literature isn't clear that the couplers are mounted separately from the trucks.
SUPER O BOB said:
"Will have separate coupler from trucks. Also will have lionel scale looking trucks, simplified, but where appropriate, will have totating bearing caps."
So I was speculating that body mounted couplers might not be able to operate on small radius curves. I did not know that the Weaver couplers were not truck mounted. Were they longer than normal couplers?
I have over 60 Weaver freight cars. And yes the couplers are a separate piece from the truck. But when the screw that holds the truck to car body under frame is removed both the truck and coupler drop off. They both pivot from same point. So they are in essence just like a one piece unit.
Ron
I hope the "separate parts to convert to 2 rail" will also fit older Weaver rolling stock. If yes, I will be buying some of them and I will support this line when they make something I need in a road name I like. This is the first time in a long time that I look forward to seeing Lionel's display at York. Nothing against Lionel but they usually don't do anything that sparks my interest.
I wonder if the rolling stock will have the famous "BLT by Lionel" on the side? I wish they would put it on the bottom.
fredt posted:prrhorseshoecurve posted:FredT where do you get the 054, 072 minimum diameter? Weaver models had separate couplers from the trucks and run perfectly fine on 027, 031,& 036. The literature isn't clear that the couplers are mounted separately from the trucks.
SUPER O BOB said:
"Will have separate coupler from trucks. Also will have lionel scale looking trucks, simplified, but where appropriate, will have totating bearing caps."
So I was speculating that body mounted couplers might not be able to operate on small radius curves. I did not know that the Weaver couplers were not truck mounted. Were they longer than normal couplers?
IIRC all our 3Rail Weaver cars have truck mounted couplers, the 2Rail models being body mounted.
JC642 posted:Swafford posted:Now for the big $64 question..............................What will be the price point on these new cars?
Regards,
Swafford
LOL, Exactly right. If anything, thanks should be given to Menards for their beautifully done & very inexpensive RS and buildings which it appears contributed to LionScale. Plus, it exposed everything heard previously about rising costs to be bogus.. Menards has shown it simply can be done cheaper if one chooses. Competition is a wonderful thing. It keeps everyone honest..
Joe
Maybe if Lionel had these cars made at the same place (Golden Wheel) Menards does in China. Somehow, I don't think the folks working on these cars in NC are going to getting the same wage and benefits as those at Golden Wheel...
Do you seriously believe cars Traditional sized cars based on old Lionel/Williams and Scale cars from the former Weaver tooling are in the same league?
Rusty
this will be an interesting addition to the Lionel line.
Bob C.
I can't be the only one to be getting very confused about L's offerings.
Lion this and Lion that . . .
"Lionchief:" Entry line incompatible with their own Legacy control system.
"LionchiefPlus:" No idea what this is. An attempt to correct the mistake of Lionchief Legacy incompatability?
Now "Lionscale:" Top of the line rolling stock.
The waters are very muddy AFAIAC. The whole lion terminolgy is becoming a Frankenstein thing. MTH has Railking and Premiere. That I can understand! And, of course, both product lines are compatible with their DCS.
ed h posted:A little larger copy of the dealer announcement
does anyone know or believe Lionel will move all their scale rolling stock into this line?
PGentieu posted:Ryan Kunkle did the Lionel presentation today at the TCA Museum and Library in Strasburg. He said the carbodies will be made in Pennsylvania .....
Anyone know what place in Pennsylvania is doing it?
Boy, I hope it all works out, and this is the beginning of a trend.
Terry Danks posted:I can't be the only one to be getting very confused about L's offerings.
Lion this and Lion that . . .
"Lionchief:" Entry line incompatible with their own Legacy control system.
"LionchiefPlus:" No idea what this is. An attempt to correct the mistake of Lionchief Legacy incompatability?
Now "Lionscale:" Top of the line rolling stock.
The waters are very muddy AFAIAC. The whole lion terminolgy is becoming a Frankenstein thing. MTH has Railking and Premiere. That I can understand! And, of course, both product lines are compatible with their DCS.
Yes, it is quite confusing, isn't it?
Add to that the lingering confusion over 'O' and 'O-27'...or "Standard O" vs. "Traditional O".
About 25 years ago (advent of some real competition....MTH) Lionel might have helped clear up some of this miasma by following MTH's clarity: Orange boxes with blue stripes for their Standard O product line; Blue boxes with orange stripes for their Traditional product line. Ditto the boxed items for the different track items (e.g., switches, uncoupling/accessory activation tracks, insulated rail pieces, etc., etc., etc.) I know....too simple?
Look, I'm 70 years into this hobby. I can handle the confusion. But at our store (LHS) we deal with the confusion weekly...or more frequently during the holidays...from among those less familiar with the differences, our customers.
Lionlingo...Time for a Rosetta Stone language package????
JC642 posted:Swafford posted:Now for the big $64 question..............................What will be the price point on these new cars?
Regards,
Swafford
LOL, Exactly right. If anything, thanks should be given to Menards for their beautifully done & very inexpensive RS and buildings which it appears contributed to LionScale. Plus, it exposed everything heard previously about rising costs to be bogus.. Menards has shown it simply can be done cheaper if one chooses. Competition is a wonderful thing. It keeps everyone honest..
Joe
Good Day Joe,
I agree 100%. Competition is a great thing!
Just thinking...................It will be interesting to see how Menards marketing responds to the new Lionel product line!
On a side note, I have the longer 14 3/4 " Menards BNSF Flat Cars and like the product and the price!
Regards,
Swafford
Rusty Traque posted:JC642 posted:Swafford posted:Now for the big $64 question..............................What will be the price point on these new cars?
Regards,
Swafford
LOL, Exactly right. If anything, thanks should be given to Menards for their beautifully done & very inexpensive RS and buildings which it appears contributed to LionScale. Plus, it exposed everything heard previously about rising costs to be bogus.. Menards has shown it simply can be done cheaper if one chooses. Competition is a wonderful thing. It keeps everyone honest..
Joe
Maybe if Lionel had these cars made at the same place (Golden Wheel) Menards does in China. Somehow, I don't think the folks working on these cars in NC are going to getting the same wage and benefits as those at Golden Wheel...
Do you seriously believe cars Traditional sized cars based on old Lionel/Williams and Scale cars from the former Weaver tooling are in the same league?
Rusty
Put it another way. Does anyone seriously believe there's a significant cost difference between scale and traditional sized rolling stock subcontracted offshore or assembled here today? How about a similarly equipped GP9 and ES44? If anyone does, IMO, they've been drinking way too much flavored Kool Aid..
Joe
Why would Menards Marketing feel the need to respond? They would've already responded with scale proportioned and detailed cars if they wanted to play in that pond.
The LionScale cars aren't going to be 20 buck cars. I figure take the old Weaver Price and add 15-20% for LionScale.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:Why would Menards Marketing feel the need to respond?
Rusty
Its easy to see Menards (Goliath) is just getting started. I'm sure Lionel (David) is strictly reacting to the challenge. It'll be interesting..
Joe
I wish I could be more optimistic about this announcement, but given Lionel's history I have to wonder how far they will take this. Will we see engines and a new track system? I doubt it. My guess would be that they are just regurgitating the Weaver tooling. That's good news for Weaver rolling stock fans. My problem is that they never give the whole story up front. Example, S scale modelers never realized that Lionel decided to stop development of high end Legacy models until they noticed the absence of new products in the catalogs. It would be nice to hear their intentions up front. Do they intend to invest in new tooling in this line at some point? Or just make a bit of profit off of the Weaver tooling?
Will somebody at York please ask them that question?
EBT Jim posted:PGentieu posted:Ryan Kunkle did the Lionel presentation today at the TCA Museum and Library in Strasburg. He said the carbodies will be made in Pennsylvania .....
Anyone know what place in Pennsylvania is doing it?
Boy, I hope it all works out, and this is the beginning of a trend.
I believe the company is near the former Weaver factory. Joe told me about it the last time I talked to him, maybe a month or two ago.
Don
JC642 posted:Rusty Traque posted:Why would Menards Marketing feel the need to respond?
Rusty
Its easy to see Menards (Goliath) is just getting started. I'm sure Lionel (David) is strictly reacting to the challenge. It'll be interesting..
Joe
Hardly a challenge. If Lionel were responding to Menards, the 6464 type and other traditional cars would drop to 20 bucks MSRP to compete.
Apples and oranges.
LionScale won't be 20 bucks a car (If it were, Lionel would be shouting it from the rooftops, Lionscale will probably MSRP more than old Weaver) and be better detailed than Menards offerings.
Rusty
If the new cars are up to the standards of Atlas-O Master Steam Classics, I'll anxiously await some road names I am interested in, CP, CN, Soo, TH&B, GN.
Ahhhh . . . but how quickly I forget. I have far too much rolling stock already! I need trees! Not more engines and stock!
Terry Danks posted:If the new cars are up to the standards of Atlas-O Master Steam Classics, I'll anxiously await some road names I am interested in, CP, CN, Soo, TH&B, GN.
Ahhhh . . . but how quickly I forget. I have far too much rolling stock already! I need trees! Not more engines and stock!
I suspect they will be up to the standard of the particular Weaver dies they spring forth from.
Rusty
Terry Danks posted:I can't be the only one to be getting very confused about L's offerings.
Lion this and Lion that . . .
"Lionchief:" Entry line incompatible with their own Legacy control system.
"LionchiefPlus:" No idea what this is. An attempt to correct the mistake of Lionchief Legacy incompatability?
Now "Lionscale:" Top of the line rolling stock.
The waters are very muddy AFAIAC. The whole lion terminolgy is becoming a Frankenstein thing. MTH has Railking and Premiere. That I can understand! And, of course, both product lines are compatible with their DCS.
I agree that the various naming conventions for lionel (and other product manufactures) are confusing. That said, LionChief is not incompatible with Legacy, it is 100% as compatible with legacy as DCS is compatible with legacy. In other words, it will run just fine along side Legacy, but legacy can not control LionChief engines, same as Legacy can not control DCS engines.
As for LionChief Plus, I'd probably take a moment to actually be aware of a products benefits and limitations before knocking it. There are certainly drawbacks of LionChief and LC+, but simply rambling with no actual knowledge of what features are and are not offered doesn't really help anyone.
P.S. For those keeping up, there are ways to make LC/LC+ engines respond to TMCC commands, at least for the functionality that exists in LC/+ engines.
JGL
Rusty Traque posted:JC642 posted:Rusty Traque posted:Why would Menards Marketing feel the need to respond?
Rusty
Its easy to see Menards (Goliath) is just getting started. I'm sure Lionel (David) is strictly reacting to the challenge. It'll be interesting..
Joe
Hardly a challenge. If Lionel were responding to Menards, the 6464 type and other traditional cars would drop to 20 bucks MSRP to compete.
Apples and oranges.
LionScale won't be 20 bucks a car (If it were, Lionel would be shouting it from the rooftops, Lionscale will probably MSRP more than old Weaver) and be better detailed than Menards offerings.
Rusty
Using your analogy it begs the question, why were they not already priced that low?
As I posted earlier, I'll tell you why, they didn't have too. Competition is wonderful, A wake up call for those with skin in the game.. This time unlike the MTH challenge back in the late 90's, they're dealing with Godzilla. If they choose do so, Menards could easily bury the competition with prices so low on vital high volume high profit items, there's no way to compete and remain profitable. Using Walmart as an example , their target just fades away.
Joe
Terry Danks posted:I can't be the only one to be getting very confused about L's offerings.
Lion this and Lion that . . .
"Lionchief:" Entry line incompatible with their own Legacy control system.
"LionchiefPlus:" No idea what this is. An attempt to correct the mistake of Lionchief Legacy incompatability?
Now "Lionscale:" Top of the line rolling stock.
The waters are very muddy AFAIAC. The whole lion terminolgy is becoming a Frankenstein thing. MTH has Railking and Premiere. That I can understand! And, of course, both product lines are compatible with their DCS.
You forgot "LionMaster".
Some train lines you won't see: Cowardly Lion? Lyin' Eyes? The Lion Sleeps Tonight? Lie in bed all day?
JC642 posted:Rusty Traque posted:JC642 posted:Rusty Traque posted:Why would Menards Marketing feel the need to respond?
Rusty
Its easy to see Menards (Goliath) is just getting started. I'm sure Lionel (David) is strictly reacting to the challenge. It'll be interesting..
Joe
Hardly a challenge. If Lionel were responding to Menards, the 6464 type and other traditional cars would drop to 20 bucks MSRP to compete.
Apples and oranges.
LionScale won't be 20 bucks a car (If it were, Lionel would be shouting it from the rooftops, Lionscale will probably MSRP more than old Weaver) and be better detailed than Menards offerings.
Rusty
Using your analogy it begs the question, why were they not already priced that low?
As I posted earlier, I'll tell you why, they didn't have too. Competition is wonderful, A wake up call for those with skin in the game.. This time unlike the MTH challenge back in the late 90's, they're dealing with Godzilla. If they choose do so, Menards could easily bury the competition with prices so low on vital high volume high profit items, there's no way to compete and remain profitable. Using Walmart as an example , their target just fades away.
Joe
Once again, Menards is a home improvement store, that's where their core business lies. The trains are a very small blip on their bottom line, I suspect the rolling stock are loss leaders and they generate profit on the structures (which, if you notice, are priced closer to similar products from Woodland Scenics.) They could drop the train stuff and it would barely show on the bottom line.
When I go to my local Menards at Christmastime, I see people with carts full of tools, home improvement stuff, Christmas decorations, food, etc at the check-out counters. Haven't seen anyone walk out with a cart full of train stuff.
They get them in and ship them out. Post a new product and some guys go nuts buying multiples, whether they need them or not. Menards cars are simple and robust. Nothing more complicated that some of the lighted signage they use on some of their structures. I'd wager they don't want to get into anything more sophisticated or complicated. To go one-on-one with Lionel and MTH would probably open up a can of worms they don't want to go into.
Menards is not nationwide and not everybody knows who or what they they are. Get outside the O Gauge bubble and no one without a local Menards sees their ads for train stuff.
I doubt Lionel is quaking in their boots.
Rusty
Ryan Kunkle said the carbodies will be made in Pennsylvania, but did anyone notice that the dealer announcement says, "Decorated and assembled in Lionel's Concord, NC headquarters" and shows construction of the production area.
So, the carbodies will be molded in Pennsylvania, but decoration and assembly will be done by Lionel itself. This will be the first manufacturing in the U.S. by Lionel itself since they closed their Michigan plant in 2000. (Lionel's recent U.S. production has been done by outside vendors.) Wow!
Keith
The President box car series was made in the US.
Don
