Lionel RS5 with no auto rpm sounds

Did you do the reset from the user's manual?  Since the sounds work, and you obviously have serial data going to the RS board, I can't imagine why the prime mover RPM doesn't change.

Try using the TMCC handheld( if you have one) and base without going through the DCS system.

I'll have to try one through the DCS, I remember hearing about this before, just don't understand why it would happen.

I'm not familiar with RS5 but how is the rev up activated .Some type of sensor on the truck? (hall effect) Curious whether you can get the rev up in conventional mode.

It's actually driven by the serial data stream, which is why I'm confused about it not working.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...when-requesting-help

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...l-no-auto-rpm-sounds

Thanks GGG,

Wasn't sure if this was an MTH or Lionel issue, but it seems apparent now that it is an issue with running TMCC under DCS control.

The engine in question is Lionel 6-31735 (set breakup).  Do I need someone that has a TMCC controller to perform a TMCC reset.  I thought that every time you start a TMCC engine under DCS control that it resets it automatically?

http://www.lionel.com/media/se...ents/73-1735-250.pdf

Scroll down to page 24/ 25.... Aux1/ brake , should hear a Clunk  ??  I believe the dcs remote can accomplish most TMCC commands except the "set".

Thanks Gregg,

That is for conventional running.  I tried doing the railsounds reset by pressing Aux1 + 0.  The distinctive clunk was heard, but I still do not get the automatic rpm levels.

Darn!! You have a var dcs channel if you need it. I'm guessing you tried the aux1 /brake? There's has to be a way.

I do, but I don't really want to alter my wiring.  It should work through the fixed channel with my DCS remote.  I have a few Atlas engines with RS and they work perfect.

  I think your engine has many more features  than Atlas engines... Seems  the engine has the option of Legacy, TMCC, and conventional. If you only  have a dcs remote you'll have to run it under TMCC. RS5.  There's a lot of stuff in the manual.  Hopefully someone has the answer.  Good luck JD.

I just tested a Legacy GP-7 using the DCS to run it in TMCC mode.  No RPM ramping in either mode, Relative or TMCC.  Obviously, a shortcoming of running a Legacy locomotive in this environment. FWIW, it ramps up fine running it from an old TMCC CAB1/BASE1.

Just one more reason to have a real Lionel remote.

I don't run DCS   but his DCS runs atlas with no problems so I would think if would run the Lionel. Me thinks it could be a DCDS, Radio or Motherboard problem. But you really need a Tmcc or Legacy remote.

Bill

Bill, I see the same thing running a perfectly operating Legacy GP7 through the DCS remote.  I then ran the same engine with the Legacy remote, and took it to my test bench and ran it with my CAB1/BASE1.  Only the DCS linked TMCC control failed to ramp up the RPM.

IMO, it's not a broken engine.

I thought the dcs remote could do everything a cab-1 could  do except the cab-1s "set" button.

Dcs remote talks to TIU, Tiu talks to Lionel  command base via serial cable. command base talks to engine. Something's missing?

Obviously, for whatever reason, the commands they are forwarding to the TMCC/Legacy command base, are not the same as come from the respective remotes.

Geez! I figured you'd be the one to get it straighten out .At least you gave it a shot with your stuff.

I think this is one that MTH will have to fix.  I'm not sure what the difference is, I'd have to study the TMCC command set to see how you command it to move without affecting the prime mover RPM.

Isn't Atlas 4.0 RS.  This issue is with RS 5.0 now?  G

Strange that it would do it with RS 5.0 and Legacy. Is your GP7 5.0 or 5.5. Thanks for the heads up G

My GP-7 has RS5.5 according to the Lionel parts breakdown.

my understanding is the RS 5.0 is the last of the TMCC RS modular boards.  RS 5.5 was the first Legacy modular RS board.

I think this only applies when trying to operate a 5.0 and now 5.5 (John's engine)engine via DCS, vice directly with a Lionel Command System. 

Wonder what the bug is?  G

I run all my stuff with DCS and I've wondered about this. All of my Atlas engines will ramp up one notch when started in 32 speed-step mode, but that's it. Any further increase in the RPM sound has to be toggled manually.

Now if I set the control to run in the sped-step mode (128 I think), the RPMs will notch up and down with increases and decreases in speed. I think they do this even if leave the engine in 32-step mode and don't reprogram it. I don't know much about these throttles, but I've surmised that this behavior has something to do with the types of speed steps. I think 32-step mode involves "absolute" speed steps and 128 has relative speed steps. 

That may also be why the DCS set speed command will work on TMCC engines in 32-step mode, but not 128. That's kind of too bad because the 128 step mode gives finer speed control and seems to work the RPMs properly. Because I run most everything in lash ups, however, I use the 32 step mode so that I can use set speed to ensure all of the engines synced at the same speed step.

RM

Some of the Atlas I worked on used the VCO Mother boards for speed sensing for sound.  Takes an input off the motor board and via the mother board sends it to the RS boards.  Wonder if this is part of the issue when DCS is sending the commands.  Got to make you wonder what is different going to the command base and from the command base to the engine that prevents the ramp up.  G

The issue may be that the locomotive is expecting a relative speed command to trigger the RPM change.

In TMCC mode, the Legacy remote prefaces an absolute command with a single relative speed command. The DCS remote in 32-step mode just issues the absolute speed command.  That is likely why the RPM changes when you use 128-step mode with the DCS remote; it's all relative speed commands.

That might make sense except my Legacy ramps properly using CAB1, TMCC, or Legacy as the engine type in my CAB2 configuration.  There must be a bit more to it.

I had one Atlas engine that would go to the 2nd RPM level but had to be advanced manually with my CAB-1L and CAB-2 remotes to get to the 3rd and 4th. It did this in TMCC mode (32-speed steps) and I think, CAB-1 mode (128-speed steps). It's been awhile since I've operated any of my EOB-equipped engines in 128-speed step mode.

At first it didn't advance automatically to the 2nd level at all. I contacted Atlas about this and Bill Serratelli told me to assign the Master Chuff reset code a value of "1+0+0." The owner's manual states that the Master Chuff for a diesel should be "1+1+1." After selecting "1+0+0" I got the RPMs to advance to the 2nd level automatically and gained the squealing brakes feature in TMCC mode.

That's my guess as well.

Rudy, do you have any idea why RS5 or RS5.5 prime mover RPM would not advance when controlling it through the DCS remote using either a TMCC or Legacy base?  I have tried a couple now, and they all just keep the idle setting as they run around.

Of course, using the Lionel remote they work fine, so it's obviously something in the command stream, but I couldn't figure out how you'd tell it to do that.

First, I'm not familiar with what commands are sent from the TIU, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread, if in some modes the TIU is only sending absolute speed commands, that would leave railsounds without the cue to ramp the rpm up or down. In the pre-legacy days, ramping was triggered two ways: either manually (3 and 6 keys) or by relative speed + or - commands. In Legacy, an additional RPM Run Level command was introduced, which is what the CAB2 uses to operate a legacy diesel. But put a legacy diesel on a CAB1 or CAB-1L and it will fall back to ramping on relative speed commands.

As I say, I can't speak to what commands are coming out of the TIU, but absolute speed-only commands would explain the observed behavior.

Rudy

Rudy, the "absolute" speed commands, isn't that TMCC mode in the CAB2, or is there some other difference?  With my CAB1/BASE1 or the CAB2/Legacy base, I can't make what I see there happen, I just wanted to understand it.

With a Legacy Remote and type Diesel, Control TMCC, Sound RS5 a mix of absolute and relative speed commands are transmitted. If you change to Control CAB1, only relative speed commands are sent. Does that clarify it?

Thanks Rudy, that explains it!   I'll bet you're right, they're just sending the absolute commands.  Thanks for the clarification.

Rudy,  Just for some more history on how RS does this ramp up.  Did the RS2.5 and early 4.0 diesel use the chuff input for conventional only, or was that also used in Command mode.  (Diesels with cams and switch).

Is VCO still used or was that just a short period in RS4.0?  Or is that used when I conventional mode.  Thanks for the info.   G

The RS2.5 stuff that I've used and still have uses the truck switch.  The VCO was on some of the TAS boards and Lionel diesels with RS4.  The old RS4 based ERR RS Commander also used the VCO for diesel RPM.  I noticed the new ERR RS5 based boards do not have the VCO connection, so obviously that's when the issue with the DCS surfaced.